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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking, and European Delivery    Better to lease or buy an M5?

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      10-28-2020, 06:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by A Need For Speed View Post
Found mine (after looking for 2 months) with 3K miles on it, got 30K off for basically a new car. Car was completely wrapped with PPF ($6K) and other extras (tint etc)....all free to me. Love this car.

Go with slightly used and buy it. I plan to keep this car for over 5 years because I honestly cannot think of another car I would rather have. Going on 2 years in this one. Wouldn't change a thing.
I also got mine used. Same discount just a bit more mileage. I wouldn't buy new ever and leasing doesn't work for me because of the modding. I will lease a SUV now that I have a kid on the way.
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      10-28-2020, 09:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by AHall View Post
I think once you enter this price point for a car logic is out the window. How is it logical to have a never ending car payment because you want to drive cars you believe are unreliable and are afraid to own it past the warranty. Just get a four cylinder corolla and through your cares to the wind and keep your dollars. Is that not more sensible? So why do people try to make others believe their decision to lease a car decade after decade is sensible? None of this is a sound financial decision so why try to pass it off as such?

I completely agree. I purchased mine. $115000 Out the door. This lease example from another thread just today is why:


2021 m5 comp lease quote (sf bay area)
quote i just received for a 3y, 10k mile per year lease:

configuration: https://www.bmwusa.com/build-your-ow...i28ass/summary

msrp $113,095

selling price $106,309 (6.1% off msrp) before $1250 lease/loyalty incentive

money factor = 0.00082
residual = 59%

$1625 drive off

$1232 plus tax = $1343 per month


So with this lease you are basically renting your M5 for three years at a total cost of $49973 including down payment. Your also capped a 10K miles a year. So $50K rental for three years (unless you like your M5 and enjoy driving it a lot, then its even more $$$.)

I figure my car will depreciate that same $50K in three years, maybe even more, So lets say $55K. I think my car will bring $60K in three years, especially as anal as I keep my stuff if I decide to sell it. But I just have this thing about owning my shit, driving it the way I want to, taking care of it, doing a few simple mods, putting on as many miles as I want to (or don't) without watching the ODO all the time and not having to return it at a certain time if that timing does not fit into my lifetime criteria right then. (who the hell knows where we will be in three years with this Covid thing, hopefully done with it, but.....) So to me its pretty much a wash and I go for the comfort factor of owning my car. And honestly I usually want something different in less than three years so my eyes are always open to a change/upgrade, (M8GC). Changing cars in the middle of a lease is just a bit more difficult than most folks think it is. YMMV.

And again at this price point there is no logic for us M5 owners, But I sure love my car! So you can't go wrong either way with such a fine car as the M5 is. Just my 2 cents worth....
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      10-28-2020, 11:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorin Mark View Post
I completely agree. I purchased mine. $115000 Out the door. This lease example from another thread just today is why:


2021 m5 comp lease quote (sf bay area)
quote i just received for a 3y, 10k mile per year lease:

configuration: https://www.bmwusa.com/build-your-ow...i28ass/summary

msrp $113,095

selling price $106,309 (6.1% off msrp) before $1250 lease/loyalty incentive

money factor = 0.00082
residual = 59%

$1625 drive off

$1232 plus tax = $1343 per month


So with this lease you are basically renting your M5 for three years at a total cost of $49973 including down payment. Your also capped a 10K miles a year. So $50K rental for three years (unless you like your M5 and enjoy driving it a lot, then its even more $$$.)

I figure my car will depreciate that same $50K in three years, maybe even more, So lets say $55K. I think my car will bring $60K in three years, especially as anal as I keep my stuff if I decide to sell it. But I just have this thing about owning my shit, driving it the way I want to, taking care of it, doing a few simple mods, putting on as many miles as I want to (or don't) without watching the ODO all the time and not having to return it at a certain time if that timing does not fit into my lifetime criteria right then. (who the hell knows where we will be in three years with this Covid thing, hopefully done with it, but.....) So to me its pretty much a wash and I go for the comfort factor of owning my car. And honestly I usually want something different in less than three years so my eyes are always open to a change/upgrade, (M8GC). Changing cars in the middle of a lease is just a bit more difficult than most folks think it is. YMMV.

And again at this price point there is no logic for us M5 owners, But I sure love my car! So you can't go wrong either way with such a fine car as the M5 is. Just my 2 cents worth....
In your analysis, you are not mentioning the opportunity cost of putting out $115K, versus leasing with a small amount down and investing the rest. When I got my M5 I debated leasing versus buying, and ultimately instead of purchasing at $125K I leased and invested in F.A.N.G stocks and JD.com. I am glad I leased because my investments appreciated so much.
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      10-28-2020, 11:57 PM   #26
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I am kicking this can down the road now. I just sold my 7 series and really interested in a M5 and am considering leasing vs. CPO. The G80 was at the top of my list but I don't know if I will be happy with it. I typically keep my cars for a while and would hate to lease a car and end up buying it .
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      10-29-2020, 12:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
In your analysis, you are not mentioning the opportunity cost of putting out $115K, versus leasing with a small amount down and investing the rest. When I got my M5 I debated leasing versus buying, and ultimately instead of purchasing at $125K I leased and invested in F.A.N.G stocks and JD.com. I am glad I leased because my investments appreciated so much.
Probably assuming that most people aren't paying cash as it usually doesn't make sense, much like the example you provided.
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      10-29-2020, 01:35 AM   #28
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I purchased three brand new vehicles this year: 2019 M5, 2020 X7 and 2020 Ram 1500 Limited. All are fully loaded and have extended warranties (7 years). I use the truck for work, the car for play and the suv for road trips. I usually only drive a total of 8k miles each year combined. So I’ll be keeping these long term.

My advice is decide whether you will keep long term or not. Then go from there. And if you decide to buy, maybe look into CPO. Then put the money saved aside for any issues you might encounter later.

Last edited by Earlando86; 10-30-2020 at 01:35 PM..
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      10-29-2020, 07:37 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
In your analysis, you are not mentioning the opportunity cost of putting out $115K, versus leasing with a small amount down and investing the rest. When I got my M5 I debated leasing versus buying, and ultimately instead of purchasing at $125K I leased and invested in F.A.N.G stocks and JD.com. I am glad I leased because my investments appreciated so much.

Agreed, I never got those two intertwined as I don't know all that much about stocks and would really be upset if I leased (rented) my M5 for 36 months for $50K then the market took a dive for a few months (circa 2007-2010) and I lost another $50K of my $115K investment, making my rental fee now $100K for my car for 36 months, I just could not live with myself. But this is what makes the world go around, all of our lives are on slightly different pages and that what makes us all different as individuals.

Again, this is just my opinion, nothing set in stone here.
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      10-29-2020, 12:58 PM   #30
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I leased my 2020 M5C. Will buy it out IF the residual is lower than market at lease end and I'm still in LOVE with it. Ultimate optionality.
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      10-29-2020, 04:33 PM   #31
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Ya but the good thing about the market is it'll always rebound. So unless you invest in a company that goes under you'll generally be fine.

I leased because $0 down and much lower monthly payments than purchase. And the whole "Renting" logic doesn't pass with me. It's not like I'm getting any money back if I buy. As in more than I already put in. I don't plan on keeping till the loan is 100% paid so no point in buying.
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      10-29-2020, 04:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverik259 View Post
Ya but the good thing about the market is it'll always rebound. So unless you invest in a company that goes under you'll generally be fine.

I leased because $0 down and much lower monthly payments than purchase. And the whole "Renting" logic doesn't pass with me. It's not like I'm getting any money back if I buy. As in more than I already put in. I don't plan on keeping till the loan is 100% paid so no point in buying.
Leasing literally is long term renting.

If you continuously need new cars and selling them sub 3 years, than yeah, leasing can be more advantageous for the lower payments.

But buying always trumps financially. It's just math my man.
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      10-30-2020, 04:55 AM   #33
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Leased mine. Treated it as a long term renting/ test drive to see if I really like living with it.

Also because...
1. I fit into the category of people that tends to like new cars in a few years (No matter how much I think I'll commit to owning it more than 3 years..)

2. When inquiring about the vehicle the residual and MF (interest rate) made the monthly extremely attractive. (For the 3 year "test drive")

3. The "accidents." Car's value not only dip the most because of depreciation over time. But also when the unfortunate happened.
For example, your 2 year old M5 got an accident on the report, which could dramatically curb your trade-in price (Compare to if your M5 is say, 5 years old)
Not to mention the bad feeling of owning a previously damaged car, and the fact that you'll lose more if you want to get out of it...
With lease, just return it at the lease end. If all is repaired properly through insurance, you shouldn't have to bare any additional liabilities.

And you can always find another similar year/ CPOed/ better condition examples if this year/ model of M5 really speaks to you.
Hence why my e36/ e39 are here to stay. and the F80/ F87 were ones I've sampled and decided to part with at lease end.

So yea, I'm the leasing camp
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      10-30-2020, 07:20 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHeLpErZx View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverik259 View Post
Ya but the good thing about the market is it'll always rebound. So unless you invest in a company that goes under you'll generally be fine.

I leased because $0 down and much lower monthly payments than purchase. And the whole "Renting" logic doesn't pass with me. It's not like I'm getting any money back if I buy. As in more than I already put in. I don't plan on keeping till the loan is 100% paid so no point in buying.
Leasing literally is long term renting.

If you continuously need new cars and selling them sub 3 years, than yeah, leasing can be more advantageous for the lower payments.

But buying always trumps financially. It's just math my man.
Quite literally what I said. I don't plan on keeping the car past 5/6 years which is a loan (3 yrs is a lease). So that's why I chose to lease. It's simple math. It only makes sense to buy if you absolutely keep the car past loan termination and then have no more payments. But my interest rate in my lease is better than a loan anyway. So again. Leasing wins for me in this particular car due to BMW lease rates. MB is a different story. I would have been better off buying from them.
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      10-30-2020, 12:27 PM   #35
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I chose to buy, as I tend to develop attachments to my cars. Also, I have a real problem with thinking of laying out so much money in a lease, and then having nothing to show for it, in the end. If you buy, and you hold long-term—5 years or more, or at least until after the loan has been retired for some time—then you do have that asset, at the end of the day. Granted, you do have (significant) depreciation, but you do still have an asset. Also, there is just that sense of pride that comes with ownership. You feel like this is mine. I just don’t see how you ever feel that way, with a lease. I especially don’t understand lessees wanting to mod their cars, or put PPF on it, or anything like that, especially if you don’t wind up keeping. Not to mention the limits on mileages and such.

At the end of the day, I think that the old saying “know thy self” applies here, as there are very definite pros and cons, both ways. To the OP, I say you sound somewhat like me, in that you like to keep your cars around for some time, so why not just purchase it? You know going in that it is going to depreciate...most likely heavily, so you have to really feel like that this is the car for you, as I did. Also, you evaluate the risk of how reliable the car is going to be. From all I have seen and read on these forums, the car is at least pretty reliable, not that any car is ever perfect. As for me, I have decided to make not only a financial but an emotional investment in this car, as I believe it is the absolute perfect one for me, at this stage in my life. YMMV. Either way, good luck OP, and don’t listen to any negative nay-sayers either way. You do what is right for YOU.
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      10-30-2020, 05:42 PM   #36
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Leasing here. 2021 M5. But I plan to track it and issue I'm running into is cost of parts. Common wear items like brake pads/rotors don't have any aftermarket support! Will put me out almost 2k for just pads/rotors (not labor)!
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      10-30-2020, 05:56 PM   #37
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I would lease. These things s**t the bed on resale. I can use the write off so the never ending payment is just apart of my business for me. To those that don't have that ability oh well.

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      10-30-2020, 08:27 PM   #38
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ok, I was on leasehackr inputting some numbers and it looks to be a 68k residual value after a 3 year lease based on 10k a year. A 2018 M5, CPO car is about 79 to 85k. I have only leased once and did not care for it but it would seem I'm better off leasing and then buy out lease in the end.
I am sure I may have missed something here so don't flame me too much for my ignorance.
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      11-01-2020, 11:05 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///WeissBlitz76 View Post
I chose to buy, as I tend to develop attachments to my cars. Also, I have a real problem with thinking of laying out so much money in a lease, and then having nothing to show for it, in the end. If you buy, and you hold long-term—5 years or more, or at least until after the loan has been retired for some time—then you do have that asset, at the end of the day. Granted, you do have (significant) depreciation, but you do still have an asset. Also, there is just that sense of pride that comes with ownership. You feel like this is mine. I just don’t see how you ever feel that way, with a lease. I especially don’t understand lessees wanting to mod their cars, or put PPF on it, or anything like that, especially if you don’t wind up keeping. Not to mention the limits on mileages and such.

At the end of the day, I think that the old saying “know thy self” applies here, as there are very definite pros and cons, both ways. To the OP, I say you sound somewhat like me, in that you like to keep your cars around for some time, so why not just purchase it? You know going in that it is going to depreciate...most likely heavily, so you have to really feel like that this is the car for you, as I did. Also, you evaluate the risk of how reliable the car is going to be. From all I have seen and read on these forums, the car is at least pretty reliable, not that any car is ever perfect. As for me, I have decided to make not only a financial but an emotional investment in this car, as I believe it is the absolute perfect one for me, at this stage in my life. YMMV. Either way, good luck OP, and don’t listen to any negative nay-sayers either way. You do what is right for YOU.
Very well said and completely agree with all of this, Always do what's best for you, not others.
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      11-13-2020, 08:07 PM   #40
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This gets asked a lot, and my answer is always the same: it's deeply personal, and based on your needs/wants/finances, etc. Nobody here can answer that question except to say some cars lease better, and maybe others make better purchases, but those are generalities, and not necessarily cogent to your situation. Just something to consider in the process.

I'd personally lease an M5 (and plan to next year) mainly because I know I will want to move on in 3 years. Other cars I might buy, like a Panamera, 911, or RS7 type of car, or something cheap I will usually just buy outright. But that's just me. YMMV

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      11-15-2020, 08:51 AM   #41
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If you flip your car every 3 years or so sure a lease makes sense. I usually keep mine about 5 years,therefore I buy mine
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      11-16-2020, 07:46 AM   #42
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I have a question for all those who lease cars. If at the end of the lease the residual value is lets say $60K but the market value is $50K, will the dealer sale you the car for $50K if you want it?
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      11-18-2020, 03:19 PM   #43
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I have a question for all those who lease cars. If at the end of the lease the residual value is lets say $60K but the market value is $50K, will the dealer sale you the car for $50K if you want it?
From my experience you can only buy it at residual through BMWFS. If you don't buy it the dealer can at a "special" price but what they will sell it for is up to the them. Most likely they will CPO it and sell it at market value.

Having said this I am really surprised by all the messages here and misconceptions. Leasing is nothing more or less than another form of financing - it is not renting. You can buy the car at any time during the lease, or at the end, at the amount owed at that time. Each monthly payment you make decreases the amount you can buy it for from BMWFS, exactly the same way a loan would do. You always have a payoff that decreases as payments are made. Renting would not do that.

If you want to get out before the lease end and cannot do a lease swap, you can always buy it at the amount owed then and sell it. Have done it plenty of times.

If at end of lease (or at any time during) market value is more than what you owe (the residual is what you still owe at the end or the balance after the monthly payments are subtracted during - similar to a loan balance) you can trade it in a pocket the difference instead of returning it.

If you want to keep it at lease end you can buy it at residual. You can also keep it for several more months if you order another BMW.

The big difference is that it gives you insurance (beyond tax advantages for some) that if anything happens, or you no longer want it, you can get out of it in 2 or 3 years (based on lease term) and you transfer all risk to BMWFS. Unlike buying it, where there is no exit no matter what happens without a lot of sweat. Plus leasing is a much less risky financial method.

The main issues with leasing are that people don't understand it and are making up stories about it. But because of not understanding it they can pay way more than what they should (money factor/interest etc.). Plus there is an acquisition fee but you can think of it as an insurance payment again.

So unless a $120k+ is an accounting error based on your finances, I would seriously recommend leasing for $100k+ cars.
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      11-19-2020, 02:34 PM   #44
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If you can invest in any way that returns greater than the APR charged by BMWFS, lease is a better way to go.
Because ultimately at the end of the lease you can still buy the car at the residual and it will be the same as buying the car outright.
Since your money made more than what you paid BMWFS in lease charges you don't lose anything. Given lease rates from BMWFS, this is usually a low hurdle rate.
Also incentives are available sometimes only for lease deals and you get to take advantage of those.
The optionality of going for something else when the lease ends - you get that free with leasing and that is quite valuable depending on what your needs are at the time and you do not have the risk of resale values 3 years from now.
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