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      05-17-2017, 09:19 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by DCG View Post
Finally BMW you listened!!!

I'm just waiting for the M4 and X4M version with M xDrive!

BMWs automatic transmissions are amazing, but still I want the DCT transmission option, I want to be able to downshift. As someone who only ever owned stick shifts and rides a gas powered motorcycle being able to downshift and not just relying on your brakes to slow down is critical I feel. But with New York traffic popping it in to Automatic mode is wonderful I must admit. As a driver I want to stay in tuned with the car, driving automatics I get distracted and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I could care less about the M5, too big of a car for me and the guys that get these big cars I would presume don't really need the shifting option anyway. But I do care about the new technology and in the M4 and M3 DCT I feel that's it's necessary and wanted.

M xDrive

And the rear wheel drive guys which I was my whole life until now owning an xDrive model and being able to drive it in the snow with sport tires and still be able to make it home safely means a lot. Now we all get the best of both worlds at a push of a button, how genius! Took long enough...
Not sure I understand, but it seems you think the 8-speed transmission can't be manually downshifted?

Have you driven a modern BMW with the ZF 8-speed in manual mode?

You CAN downshift and have plenty of engine braking with any modern automatic transmission. Especially this one I would think since it has converter lock up in all gears!

The press release specifically mentions multiple downshifts (going down more than one gear in one shift) being incorporated.
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      05-17-2017, 09:33 AM   #68
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Floating caliper??? Are u kidding me....regular g30/f3x with m sport brake has fix caliper for rear. F8x, a cheaper car compare to f90, both blue brake and gold ceramic have fixed. Wtf
Could be a few things...
-Caliper weight / clearance
-Brake bias

The rear's aren't stopping much of this car. The surface contact area on the rear rotor is absolutely ginormous anyways

Now, should the car just have fixed piston calipers? Because it's an M5, yes, I absolutely believe it should. The class competition does.

However, this gives people a reason to purchase the brake option package and have fixed piston calipers in the rear I'm guessing. Money in the bank for BMW M.
It's there because of the electric e-brake/parking brake. Brembo has just released a fixed caliper with electric e-brake though, so in the future it will probably become available. But as of now, it's this caliper type they have available with electric e-brake/parking brake AFAIK

Oh, and the rear brakes does do a significant part of the braking!

What brake option package are you referring to? The CCB option had the same type of calipers front and rear on the F10 M5. Have you any info about this being different for the F90? Possibly they have adopted the new style Brembo e-brake calipers on the CCBs?
Gotcha, are you saying that electric parking brake is integrated into the non-fixed piston caliper that we've seen, or there is physically a separate parking brake caliper? Only reason I say this is because I thought my neighbors Model S with fixed piston calipers all around had an extra caliper on the rear for the parking brake, so I guess it's weird that BMW M wouldn't do similar?

I still can't get over that rear rotor / pad surface contact area, it's huge!

On the "option", that was purely me wearing my BMW Market / Operating Income hat ...but sounds like it may be technically not feasible right now.

Cool to see Brembo releasing a new caliper to the market.
Yes, the electric e-brake is integrated in the rear calipers by means of a stepper motor being connected to the brake piston. The stepper motor mechanically screws/pushes the piston in the caliper.

The Tesla solution isn't ideal in my opinion. Both because it adds unsprung weight but also because it adds mechanical components that needs maintenance and looks like an afterthought...

The F3x/F8x has a drum brake inside the rear brake rotors, which means that they can have compound (or fixed) calipers in the rear since the brake calipers doesn't have to act as e-brakes as well.
Gotcha - makes sense, thanks for all of the great info.
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      05-17-2017, 09:35 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
The car lost 200 lbs with the addition of 4WD/RWD combo and you're still complaining of weight? Really?
Where did it say 200 lbs weight loss?
Evo UK says "slightly lighter than the F10 M5". so I'm guessing only a few lbs lighter.
From the other thread on the M5:

- Weight: about 4200 lbs or 1800kg. AWD system adds about 140 lbs to the car or 63.5kg.

The F10 weighed in at 1870kg, so the F90 could be an estimated 70kg lighter than the F10, even though it has the addition of 63,5kg of AWD system over the F10...

Without the AWD system the F90 would be a whopping 136,5kg (300lbs) lighter than the F10... With the AWD it's 70kg (154lbs) lighter...

All this of course according to the weight estimate given in that thread
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      05-17-2017, 09:42 AM   #70
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Great to have official acknowledgement of what was a very poorly kept secret. Still waiting to hear more details about the ZF8 transmission, specifically what (if anything) has changed from the Series application.

I also wonder if they will fit a specifically tuned version of this system to the future X3M, X4M, X5M, and X6M? While perhaps this isn't necessary, it might actually allow those SUVs to perform better in some tests without sacrificing in other areas. So it seems at least possible.

As for the M3/M4, I believe that they will remain RWD until forced to go AWD by the competition. That might happen as soon as next generation, but unlike cars in the E63/M5 class, engine output has not yet made this necessary. We'll wait to see what Mercedes has cooking for the next C63. That could give indication of where the segment - and BMW - is going.
Used to be a time when BMW led these segments, not followed. Or with the E28 M5, created the segments.

You don't find this disconcerting?
Having both 4WD and RWD in the same car as a changeable switch is leading the segment. No other car manufacturer has this.
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      05-17-2017, 09:51 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Great to have official acknowledgement of what was a very poorly kept secret. Still waiting to hear more details about the ZF8 transmission, specifically what (if anything) has changed from the Series application.

I also wonder if they will fit a specifically tuned version of this system to the future X3M, X4M, X5M, and X6M? While perhaps this isn't necessary, it might actually allow those SUVs to perform better in some tests without sacrificing in other areas. So it seems at least possible.

As for the M3/M4, I believe that they will remain RWD until forced to go AWD by the competition. That might happen as soon as next generation, but unlike cars in the E63/M5 class, engine output has not yet made this necessary. We'll wait to see what Mercedes has cooking for the next C63. That could give indication of where the segment - and BMW - is going.
Used to be a time when BMW led these segments, not followed. Or with the E28 M5, created the segments.

You don't find this disconcerting?
Having both 4WD and RWD in the same car as a changeable switch is leading the segment. No other car manufacturer has this.
the e63s has a rwd drift only mode... sounds identical to me... unless someone plans to drive the car in rwd w everything off... its not a true rwd mode unless u want to drift
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      05-17-2017, 10:18 AM   #72
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Humorous intro to the new F90 M5's M xDrive

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      05-17-2017, 10:33 AM   #73
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I guess
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      05-17-2017, 10:34 AM   #74
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I don't understand why people are getting upset that this will be the first AWD M car. They keep saying you can turn the freaking thing off and still cry. I expect in a few years for this to be a classic and memorized for it being the first.

Just to be sure, when are they expected to reveal this thing completely? I thought it was going to be Today?
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      05-17-2017, 10:36 AM   #75
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It would've been great to give it a true RWD option
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      05-17-2017, 10:44 AM   #76
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And to think just 15 years ago it was only manual.. Where has the time gone?
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      05-17-2017, 10:46 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
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Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
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Originally Posted by rallybull View Post
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Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
4WD and RWD...Best of both worlds! I so want this car.
It would truly be the best of both worlds if in the 2WD mode it would also shed the extra weight due to the 4wd mechanics.
The car lost 200 lbs with the addition of 4WD/RWD combo and you're still complaining of weight? Really?
I thought it was pretty funny also.
The car already weighs less than its predecessor and WITH the AWD on it all the time. Seems like what he is wishing for has already been done !


I'm not gonna even entertain the part of his wish that defies the laws of physics.
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4WD and RWD...Best of both worlds! I so want this car.
It would truly be the best of both worlds if in the 2WD mode it would also shed the extra weight due to the 4wd mechanics.
The car lost 200 lbs with the addition of 4WD/RWD combo and you're still complaining of weight? Really?
I thought it was pretty funny also.
The car already weighs less than its predecessor and WITH the AWD on it all the time. Seems like what he is wishing for has already been done !


I'm not gonna even entertain the part of his wish that defies the laws of physics.
Is it really that hard to accept the law of physics that the mass added by the addition of the 4wd mechanism has a density >0, resulting in some finite weight due to those components?
"The car is lighter than the previous generation" is a marketing statement which seems to be working.
There was an opportunity to make it much lighter by not going 4wd (or at least offering a pure RWD option) that was missed/compromised for other design decisions. That's all.
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      05-17-2017, 10:46 AM   #78
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From the other thread on the M5:

- Weight: about 4200 lbs or 1800kg. AWD system adds about 140 lbs to the car or 63.5kg.

The F10 weighed in at 1870kg, so the F90 could be an estimated 70kg lighter than the F10, even though it has the addition of 63,5kg of AWD system over the F10...

Without the AWD system the F90 would be a whopping 136,5kg (300lbs) lighter than the F10... With the AWD it's 70kg (154lbs) lighter...

All this of course according to the weight estimate given in that thread
In real world the F10 M5 weighed another ~250lbs than BMW's claim of 1870 kg. I'd wait until magazines get a hold of production cars and get them on the scales. The last F10 M5 comp pack Motor Trend weighed was 4369 lbs or 1981 kg.

Edit: Just realized, unless I am doing the conversion wrong...1800 kg is not 4,200 lbs. So that last thread needs some fact checking.
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      05-17-2017, 10:49 AM   #79
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I just want to see this thing put against the Panamera Turbo and the E class amg and the equivalent Audi for a nice battle to see who's top dog
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      05-17-2017, 10:50 AM   #80
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Everyone complaining about AWD I bet will be the first to switch to it driving in snow or heavy rain or even at a traffic light or drag strip. Lol
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      05-17-2017, 10:51 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallybull
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallybull View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
4WD and RWD...Best of both worlds! I so want this car.
It would truly be the best of both worlds if in the 2WD mode it would also shed the extra weight due to the 4wd mechanics.
The car lost 200 lbs with the addition of 4WD/RWD combo and you're still complaining of weight? Really?
I thought it was pretty funny also.
The car already weighs less than its predecessor and WITH the AWD on it all the time. Seems like what he is wishing for has already been done !


I'm not gonna even entertain the part of his wish that defies the laws of physics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallybull View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
4WD and RWD...Best of both worlds! I so want this car.
It would truly be the best of both worlds if in the 2WD mode it would also shed the extra weight due to the 4wd mechanics.
The car lost 200 lbs with the addition of 4WD/RWD combo and you're still complaining of weight? Really?
I thought it was pretty funny also.
The car already weighs less than its predecessor and WITH the AWD on it all the time. Seems like what he is wishing for has already been done !


I'm not gonna even entertain the part of his wish that defies the laws of physics.
Is it really that hard to accept the law of physics that the mass added by the addition of the 4wd mechanism has a density >0, resulting in some finite weight due to those components?
"The car is lighter than the previous generation" is a marketing statement which seems to be working.
There was an opportunity to make it much lighter by not going 4wd (or at least offering a pure RWD option) that was missed/compromised for other design decisions. That's all.
On the other hand being unable to use all of the available power because a vehicle is RWD is a compromise in itself.
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      05-17-2017, 10:52 AM   #82
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Now that the M5 is going AWD mode, what differentiates the M5 from the X5M or the X6M? Before, if you wanted a high performance premium sedan, you bought an M5. If you couldnt deal with RWD due to where you lived but still wanted a BMW performance car, you bought an X5/X6M. Now there are no differences.
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      05-17-2017, 10:53 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysspl View Post
It would've been great to give it a true RWD option
"True rwd" meaning what compared to the solution they are offering?

If you can choose rwd only on the M xDrive, then that is true rwd...

Of course a "rwd only" version with 63,5kg less weight would be a different scenario... But how many M5 customers would trade superior traction combined with a rwd only option for a rwd only car that is slower and can't do anything the AWD car also can? It's not like the M5 is a track car where those 63,5kg you would save actually would make a difference under braking and cornering... The F90 is indicated to be as much as 70kg lighter than the F10 anyway
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      05-17-2017, 10:55 AM   #84
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question: is the rwd mode enabled only if you disable DSC?
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      05-17-2017, 10:57 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
Now that the M5 is going AWD mode, what differentiates the M5 from the X5M or the X6M? Before, if you wanted a high performance premium sedan, you bought an M5. If you wanted a X-drive BMW performance car, you bought the X5/X6M. Now all three cars are virtually the same.
Yes, because the ONLY thing that differentiates the F10 M5 from the X5M and X6M is the AWD...
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      05-17-2017, 11:06 AM   #86
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I, for one, applaud them (and AMG) for developing AWD systems so clever that with a press of a button you can turn it into a RWD vehicle.
My Inifiniti QX4 can switch from AWD to 2WD. I don't know what's so clever about this
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      05-17-2017, 11:34 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by 3M TAPE View Post
My Inifiniti QX4 can switch from AWD to 2WD. I don't know what's so clever about this
And my dads 2014 GMC 1500...and his old 2002 Suburban...

The ability to go from awd to 2wd has been around for decades. Now doing it in a performance application that allows torque vectoring. I think that is the key people are missing.
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      05-17-2017, 11:50 AM   #88
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Everyone complaining about AWD I bet will be the first to switch to it driving in snow or heavy rain or even at a traffic light or drag strip. Lol
This.
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