[shawnhayes]

Brake Refresh for spring track events. Unfortunately the metal rotors have a vibration that I can’t sort. It’s not awful and doesn’t impair braking, but I was hoping that new rotors would solve it. It hasn’t but the amount of cracking was unacceptable. Next step is blue calipers I guess. I can’t do $4000 rotors - each regularly.

[PDOT]

Did you swap the pads?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by PDOT

Did you swap the pads?

Nope. These are the BMW Carbon Ceramic Pads, and were in fine shape. It was present with the prior Pagid RSL29's (I think that's the right nomenclature - endurance pads), and did not cure with new Carbon Ceramic Pads (which fit better).

I carry a spare set of pads for the track, and can replace on the fly. But considering it developed after I replaced carbon ceramic rotors with metal, and gets worse when the rotor is worn, I'm thinking the pad placement on the rotor is contributing.

Could be wrong, but unknown at this time.

Shawn

[916_M5]

You put these rotors up to the test! Well done.
I was always advised to swap pads with new rotors, I am considering swapping rotors soon but my pads have 70% life left or more. I am running isweep low dust pads... will I be alright reusing these pads on a new rotor? No track days for me lol

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by 916_M5

You put these rotors up to the test! Well done.
I was always advised to swap pads with new rotors, I am considering swapping rotors soon but my pads have 70% life left or more. I am running isweep low dust pads... will I be alright reusing these pads on a new rotor? No track days for me lol

Classic knowledge is to avoid any “rework”. If you don’t care to rework if they feel like crap after break in, don’t worry about it. If you install and break in and it doesn’t work, you get new pads. If that’s “bad” then follow the old knowledge

Shawn

[afo818]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Nope. These are the BMW Carbon Ceramic Pads, and were in fine shape. It was present with the prior Pagid RSL29's (I think that's the right nomenclature - endurance pads), and did not cure with new Carbon Ceramic Pads (which fit better).

I carry a spare set of pads for the track, and can replace on the fly. But considering it developed after I replaced carbon ceramic rotors with metal, and gets worse when the rotor is worn, I'm thinking the pad placement on the rotor is contributing.

Could be wrong, but unknown at this time.

Shawn

BMW carbon ceramic pads on steel rotors? Any feedback on performance and dust ?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by afo818

BMW carbon ceramic pads on steel rotors? Any feedback on performance and dust ?

Yes. Performance is very high. Pads are just pads - carbon ceramics are just designed to have a high transfer layer and be very mild to rotors. Dust is lower than steel pads. But both stock BMW pads have good on track performance.

Shawn

[afo818]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Yes. Performance is very high. Pads are just pads - carbon ceramics are just designed to have a high transfer layer and be very mild to rotors. Dust is lower than steel pads. But both stock BMW pads have good on track performance.

Shawn

Interesting always wondered this. Thanks for the info I’ll be trying it out for sure

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by afo818

Interesting always wondered this. Thanks for the info I’ll be trying it out for sure

I am NOT YET certain if the carbon ceramic pads fit the blue calipers and rotors yet. My blue calipers arrived TODAY. I'm hoping to have them on before track. The ceramic pad is bigger than the stock one (it's longer radially - if that is meaningful to you). The carbon ceramic rotor is bigger and the pad is bigger radially to fit, and the caliper is bigger on the mounting boss to move it further outboard to accommodate the rotor and pad.

It LOOKS LIKE the pad fit in the blue calipers and metal rotor it will fit, but cover the rotor with more toward the center (and maybe hang over the edge). I don't know yet.

Shawn

[afo818]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

I am NOT YET certain if the carbon ceramic pads fit the blue calipers and rotors yet. My blue calipers arrived TODAY. I'm hoping to have them on before track. The ceramic pad is bigger than the stock one (it's longer radially - if that is meaningful to you). The carbon ceramic rotor is bigger and the pad is bigger radially to fit, and the caliper is bigger on the mounting boss to move it further outboard to accommodate the rotor and pad.

It LOOKS LIKE the pad fit in the blue calipers and metal rotor it will fit, but cover the rotor with more toward the center (and maybe hang over the edge). I don't know yet.

Shawn

I understand. The calipers looked identical to me , I’ll wait to hear back when you try it out

[Revan]

Was that rotor used for one season of racing Shawn?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Revan

Was that rotor used for one season of racing Shawn?

One year of events, plus Audi November 2022 at VIR, and TSCC VIR February.

A little more than one season. And much of it on a Pagid endurance pad (rougher on the rotors than the stock BMW pad).

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Carbon ceramic caliper with carbon ceramic pad on metal rotor

[shawnhayes]

Used F90 metal caliper with carbon ceramic pad on metal rotor. Note pad edge near center of rotor.

[shawnhayes]

After full install of F90 standard brakes on an M5 CS that the only options were red or gold on the carbon ceramics calipers I am convinced the difference between the calipers are minimal.

The corollary of that is that if you want carbon ceramics, unless you want it to be perfect (coding, and master cylinder) I think you’d only need a very small spacer between the caliper and steering knuckle to get it right. That’s the only difference I can find between the stock blue caliper and the carbon ceramic is the mounting boss is slightly taller on the carbons.

Shawn

[916_M5]

Thank you for this research!

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by 916_M5

Thank you for this research!

After the 9,000th person told me "this isn't a track car" and me not really caring, this is just a daily enterprise for me. Just making the car fun and fast on track.

Shawn

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

After the 9,000th person told me "this isn't a track car" and me not really caring, this is just a daily enterprise for me. Just making the car fun and fast on track.

Shawn

Not many of us out there. I get that question every time I’m out.

[Revan]

Hey Shawn, can I ask what your best and average times are at VIR in the CS? Street tires?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Revan

Hey Shawn, can I ask what your best and average times are at VIR in the CS? Street tires?

Best time ever: 2:09 full course. Toyo proxes RR’s and the full carbon brakes.

Usual times 2:10-2:12. Everything from 200 treadwears to Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. I’m out there for fun and consistency. The car probably has ten seconds a lap faster than I’m willing to push. I love my speed, but ragged edge around every corner has a predictable ending.

Shawn

[pmsteinm]

When I did private instruction earlier this year at Thermal that was what my instructor focused me on: consistent lap times and not pushing the car for all it's worth. At first I thought I wanted to drive at 100%, but it really tires (haha) you out so much faster.

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Best time ever: 2:09 full course. Toyo proxes RR’s and the full carbon brakes.

Usual times 2:10-2:12. Everything from 200 treadwears to Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. I’m out there for fun and consistency. The car probably has ten seconds a lap faster than I’m willing to push. I love my speed, but ragged edge around every corner has a predictable ending.

Shawn

How do you like the proxes RR's? I was thinking of running Hoosiers next but want to see how much more time I can squeeze out of Cup2's first. I really like the Pirelli corsa for the CS but they don't come in 295/305-30.