[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

the dealership sales model can go to hell. id only feel bad for the 5% of salesmen who aren't pricks.

I take issue with that statement and feel sorry that you feel that way about salespeople at dealerships.

IMHO, the type of salesman you encounter depends on the culture of the dealership you visit. Yes, in South Florida where I live there are several dealers who have always had bad reputations and in addition are currently selling their vehicles over MSRP.

On the other hand there are also dealers that have a different approach to doing business and they are looking to keep you as a customer for the future and not just do a one time sale. Their salespeople are extremely knowledgable, work for you and aren't vampires. They are not selling inventory over MSRP which is an easy thing to do in the current climate where there is a lack of availability and they could get away with doing so.

[nerdogray]

That's the kind of salesperson I've always wanted to find. One that will text you something like, "hey, you should come see this M5 that came in." Someone that loves it as much as you, if not more. Not to be found around here, though... I think those are exceptions rather than rules, which is why the overarching attitude is so negative.

BMW itself doesn't even seem to have passion anymore, so I see the relative few of these kinds of salespeople dwindling off over time until we're left with just another Tesla.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by chris719

The same way it works now. Except they won't be trying to screw you on both ends, just one. Think Carvana, CarMax, etc.

I wouldn't point to Carvana as a model for anything other than insolvency: https://www.torquenews.com/1083/carv...thousands-laid

Carmax has even lost one-third of its value in the past year.

[JustinHEMI]

I, for one, hope the dealership model we currently have in the USA goes away.

[Opie55]

I have read this thread and I have questions. I will not miss interacting with a salesperson at all, but would miss seeing, feeling, touching, and driving either the car I will buy or one nearly like it. So . . . .

1. Where will exemplar cars be located that I can go sit in and drive? At existing dealers, but after I drive it I will go home and order online? But dealership buildings are huge with huge overhead, so that does not seem to make sense. Will they just be shut down and abandoned and BMW will just build separate test drive centers?

2. Where will service work - warranty or otherwise - be done? At existing dealers? Again, this seems inefficient given that so much of a dealer's infrastructure is unrelated to service.

3. Where will used cars/trades be physically located?

[snareman]

Originally Posted by DocL

So no more hard sales pitch from the salesperson about the paint protection plan for $900 that they already put on the car? I loved calling them out on that BS.

I always start the discussion with the finance guy with - you can tell me about your stuff, but I'm not going to take you up on any of your options.

If I'm going to get paint protection or something similar it's going to be the one I have well researched, not that one you are offering me that I know nothing about.

Some people seem to think the tire and wheel insurance is worth it, but I figure in 35 years or so of driving I've never broken a wheel or needed a new tires due to damage. And ever since my first low profile tire car I don't curb my wheels anymore. So the likelihood that I'm going to need more than 1 new wheel in the next 3 years when I've never needed one in the past 35 certainly doesn't seem likely. So I'll roll the dice on just paying out of pocket if it happens.

[snareman]

I've had a great relationship with my CA for the past 15 years and 6 cars, but over the past 2 years both he and the dealership experience have gone completely to crap and while I had been blindly loyal to them before I am now no longer loyal to them in any way. It's really unfortunate that so many companies (dealers) forget that customers are the source of their income and don't treat them with that thought in mind.

[SteveinArizona]

It seems that Audi, BMW and MB are always copying each other. It looks like it was MB or Audi first:

https://blogtuan.info/2022/05/26/lux...-to-customers/

[Jklotz]

In the United States, many states still prohibit automakers from selling cars directly to customers. Tesla got dinged for that.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by nerdogray

That's the kind of salesperson I've always wanted to find. One that will text you something like, "hey, you should come see this M5 that came in." Someone that loves it as much as you, if not more. Not to be found around here, though... I think those are exceptions rather than rules, which is why the overarching attitude is so negative.

BMW itself doesn't even seem to have passion anymore, so I see the relative few of these kinds of salespeople dwindling off over time until we're left with just another Tesla.

You realize very quickly that the overwhelming majority of salespeople know very little about the product and aren't particularly passionate about the brand, they are just passionate about extracting you for every dollar they can.

One of the salesguys at my local BMW dealer is kind of my buddy. Old timer, he's been at BMW for decades, and can really talk cars. I got an X5 from him in 2019. He's the only salesmen I've come across who is truly passionate about BMW and the customer.

[tigermack]

There are pros and cons but I usually get a vibe from the dealer/salesperson just from calls before even going to the dealer.

[cheveux]

Originally Posted by chris719

The same way it works now. Except they won't be trying to screw you on both ends, just one. Think Carvana, CarMax, etc.

In Europe things work differently. I don't know companies of this kind that simply exchange our car for money after evaluating it.
Also, given the feedback from so many people here, in Europe it is not common to have bad feedback from sellers, nor is it common for them to try to sell packages and insurance when selling cars. At least that's my experience in the countries around the Mediterranean

[Equilibrandt]

As I said before in another thread, dealers make much exponentially-higher profits from their Parts and Service departments than their New Car Sales departments.

Keep the dealers for parts, service, and pre-owned cars.

Let me directly order a new car online, choose every option I want in the configurator, and wait X months to get it. I'm all for abolishing the $900 ceramic coat that you can't opt out of on top of $6000 ADM because they 'feel like it'.

[nerdogray]

I had a salesperson try to tell me they couldn't remove the wheel locks from a car since they had already put them on. Funny how Honda's inventory tool still showed the vehicle in transit. Right. These were $60 wheel locks they had on the invoice for $600. This was me just looking for a replacement beater for my Civic... and you know what? They were also a Sonic dealer. What a shocker.

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by Glen e

Just realize:
There will be no negotiating
You will pay what is on the website
There won’t be anybody to talk to about the product
And did I mention there will be no negotiating?

This was my first thought too. Then I started thinking about the hold backs and how would that factor in. Dynamic pricing? Will we need to go on the web site at month end, quarter end, year end for the best deal? In the end the consumer will pay more and the transparency of any kind will more than likely disappear.

[Patton250]

The worst things that happen to human beings are usually requested and applauded at first. It seems to be no different here. All of you supporting this nonsense will come to regret it. I wonder if you’ll come back here and post that?

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

When have you negotiated in the past 5-10 years for anything thats actually worth what its list price says? Cars worth buying have always gone for MSRP. Cars that get $10k discounts are actually worth even less than that $10k discount in the end.

The model of getting a discount on a car is gone, but hopefully that also leads to more products that people want to pay for/own as opposed to things dealers discount cause no one really wants.

the difference is, that car that was worth less than 10k off msrp, isnt going to sell for 10k off the msrp, it is going to sell for msrp.

A lot of people see just what we are seeing currently, where dealers are marking up cars for more than msrp, and think "if only we could order from the manufacturer, we would get a better deal". But that ignores that outside of the last year and a half, rarely would you actually pay msrp for anything. Going to a direct from manufacturer sales model just ensures you pay that MSRP, which in most cases, is an inflated price as you mentioned.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by RM7

There's always someone that claims they got a car for $10 with some Shakey's Pizza coupons because they negotiated. If the dealer/manufacturer can't move the cars, they will discount them. They will offer the rebates and discounts to attract sales. Supply and demand.

but the manufacturer doesnt need to keep a certain amount of base cars or unwanted cars on hand to make it seem like they have a ton of vehicles, or to talk someone in to when they dont have the exact model a customer wants like a dealer does. If its a model no one wants, they just will make them as they are ordered. No discounts needed to move them, they just wont build them.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by p0p

Sad but it's already like this. What you see online is what you're going to pay.
Even CPO cars. When I picked up my f30 last October; I paid what was listed, but had to fight just to get $500 off because of BMW Loyalty program (done at financing)

A dealer in PA would not even give me $100 off, even though I would've had to drive 4hrs to pick the car up.

The good old days of getting $10+K off sticker is gone.
When I got the X1 (2018) for the wife they gave me 12k off sticker.
I live in the DMV and there are like 7 dealership within a 50miles radius. So they all fight to keep customers and offer good deals like that. But now no more with this new way.

I'm still able to negotiate. I got $2,000 off my M8 going through a broker. That's not going to happen if it all goes direct through BMW

[snareman]

2 other things...

Where do you take your cars for service if there are no dealers? Do they just have BMW Service Centers?

Also, its nice to be able to go look at interior and exterior colors which can look vastly different on the internet.

[DocL]

Originally Posted by snareman

...
Some people seem to think the tire and wheel insurance is worth it, but I figure in 35 years or so of driving I've never broken a wheel or needed a new tires due to damage...

I've taken out the wheel/tire insurance on a leased car and it's always paid off in the first year. I've never damaged a wheel, but I have gotten flats and needed new tires. This happened the first week I had my 2017 NSX.

I also buy the roadside tire coverage because once again, a few weeks ago I got new fronts for my M3 at BMW and got a nail in the sidewall. They Replaced it for free.

[wtwo3]

To add to this:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...o-negotiation/

Ford announcing they're going 100% online and fixed pricing for EVs.

I'm surprised (but also not surprised) that so many people are against the current dealership model. To me it means people don't know how to leverage the dealer network to their advantage, and rather than learn, they'd be content paying higher prices with a fully online sales model.

The online only sales model is a win-win for manufacturers. You're screwing over consumers while at the same time having consumers think it's beneficial to them. What automaker wouldn't love that?

All of this sentiment is hitting a high note right now because of a temporary economic situation due to high demand and limited supply. Don't let a temporary situation cloud judgement.

1) Eliminating sales staff isn't going to result in lower pricing for cars. Most of the savings from getting rid of the sales staff will get eaten up by tighter production planning and last mile delivery costs. Dealers currently exist to service manufacturers, not consumers. They absorb excess inventory from the manufacturer, which helps streamline production planning, and they also serve as a consolidated shipping location to optimize distribution costs. IF there is any savings to be had at all, it's certainly not going to be passed on to the consumer. It's going to result in larger margins for the automakers.

2) This effectively eliminates any power the consumer holds in the purchasing process, and shifts all power to the automaker. You can't negotiate the price of a car if you're buying direct from the automaker and are unable to leverage competing dealers to work out a deal. You're now at the mercy of what the automaker wants to charge you.

3) If you really don't want the hassle... In normal market conditions, you can still easily talk to a dealer and tell them, "hey I want to pay sticker price for the car and not negotiate" and they'll gladly sell you a car with no hassle. Hell you might even go home with a car the same day since they carry inventory.