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      06-01-2020, 11:49 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
A G60 i5 BEV is not hard to believe. And a high output version of that car is a logical next step.

However, at this point I would still stop short of expecting a BEV to be branded as an M5 as soon as next generation. It is not impossible of course, but I suspect the PHEV model alone to wear that name. Now, does that mean there will be no M branding on the high output i5? No. In fact, it seems likely at this point. And perhaps it will be named something new and more exciting than simply "i5 M". But not M5, IMHO - not yet. Post 2030? Yes.
///Mi5? Hmmm, hmmm? How 'bout a Fresca?

I think it's entirely possible, when you consider the continent for which BMW resides in. Very liberal when it comes to their environmental standards. If BMW can deliver the power numbers, I think it can happen.
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      06-02-2020, 12:05 AM   #68
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My single turbo N54 would walk it
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      06-02-2020, 01:19 AM   #69
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Get ready to understand that the continual increase in power will soon stop.

The switch to electric power is for reasons of sustainability, so how long will it be before legislators decide that we don't need to get to 60 faster than x seconds?

This will happen by a restriction on power, which will lead to manufacturers to think hard about weight and range.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were all restricted to no more than 500 hp within 5 years.
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      06-02-2020, 03:15 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Get ready to understand that the continual increase in power will soon stop.

The switch to electric power is for reasons of sustainability, so how long will it be before legislators decide that we don't need to get to 60 faster than x seconds?

This will happen by a restriction on power, which will lead to manufacturers to think hard about weight and range.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were all restricted to no more than 500 hp within 5 years.
Will never happen in the good ole USA. Freedom!
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      06-02-2020, 03:16 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Will never happen in the good ole USA. Freedom!
Euro legislation will be aimed at the manufacturers don't you think, regardless of where they sell to?
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      06-02-2020, 03:22 AM   #72
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Seems like the logical thing to do, An full performance i5 M seems like that would be the way to go.

Some people will miss the sound of the cars of old and the feeling of being able to change gears with a manual transmission but there will be more then enough of these cars around in the second hand market for people to enjoy. So that is a good thing unless even further restrictions are put in place to start forbidding engines without Euro6 or 7 or 8 whatever it will be in the long run in all cities and such then i think we will see the "death" of the ICE engine as we know it. It will still be an collectors object but the fuel and such for it will be scarce to get. But that ain't gonna happen in the next 20-30 years.

So yeah i think BMW is doing the smart choice here even though they are a bit late to the party if i may so so my self.

As someone stated earlier in a post so when they restrict this the ICE engines to the extent of not being able to be driven whats the next step restricting top speeds? acceleration?

Probably not to unplausible, i mean when you think about it the biggest fault in traffic if we are talking regular traffic is the human error, or rather say the driver, because humans have a tendency to do weird stuff in traffic like start to day dream or playing with their phones or in the worst cases driving drunk.

All this parts are what contributes to accidents and shit happening in traffic if you remove the human part of driving then there won't be a need for speed limits either then cars if they are autonomous to that extent then they will be able to be driven 200 km/h to every place without incident now i have a hard time imagining this becoming a reality yet, but the fact still remains humans and their behaviors in traffic is the main reasons for accidents not counting wildlife, or landslides or sinkholes appearing on our roads causing the accident.

For example what is the purpose outside of the track to have 600-800 bhp+ is it for overtaking? hardly you can overtake most cars and trucks today with a car around 210 bhp+ with a decent amount of acceleration.

So what is the purpose of a 1000 bhp car except being able to say you have one, where are you gonna use it? You can't use it in traffic and if you do you are probably breaking some form of law, on the autobahns part that is no speed limit, sure but not everyone lives next to autobahn or be willing to drive to Germany for such a thing, so on a track yes that is a place to use it but not everyone tracks their cars i know some people who bought M3/M4s or M5s in this case they haven't set their foot on a track not even once nor went down to Germany to drive on the autobahn so what is the point for them having an M5 Competition with that much horsepower and that powerful acceleration, a poser? for the fun of it? or for what it always boils down to in the end when people choose their cars, the feeling of it. It is a great feeling but legislators don't take feeling in to account when creating laws and such so, yes the car as we know it has its days counted for.

How will the cars be tomorrow probably a bunch of mix with Hydrogen and EV cars with almost full autonomous capabilities that can take you wherever you want to go and faster then a regular car without restricting your freedom of movement witch is what the car gave to so many people and that is the freedom of being able to get wherever you wanna go whenever you want to. The only thing that will change here is we will still own our cars but driving them our self will probably become a thing of the past when autonomous cars can drive at 250-300 km/h without causing accidents, then what will the purpose of the regular car be (not counting the feeling of having one) they will probably be a collectors object or being stored in museums as our old cars are now but the awe feeling will be "Can you imagine the times when people had to drive their own cars"

So yeah the cars of today have their days counted but probably not in the next 20-30 years, the next 30 years will focus on phasing out all form of vehicles with ICE engines and after that has happened, the next step is to remove the human aspect of driving then we surely will have to wonder if we are ever gonna need trains, airplanes and such in the future if an autonomous cars can take us everywhere and maybe faster without emissions.
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      06-02-2020, 03:36 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Euro legislation will be aimed at the manufacturers don't you think, regardless of where they sell to?
Ohh I know Euro manufacturers will bitch out because of their foolish politicians/political landscape. Fortunately for us American car makers will not.

I've been saying for awhile after so many BMWs these current ones might be it. Look at the new 4er. That thing is a joke. Someone just posted about a Cadillac CTS-V Blackwing with 650 HP, Manual, RWD is on it's way.

I guess Cadillac is making the new ///M cars now. Sad
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      06-02-2020, 04:34 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyDad View Post
No thanks. I don't need more power. Just make it lighter, please! Save the electricity for the non-M cars. Nobody needs this much power. We have already reached the point where you can only step on the throttle for 4 seconds at a time before going to jail or flying off a mountain. I just got back from a spirited drive on empty mountain roads and my "base" 2018 M5 easily gets up to 110 mph on 40mph switchbacks! This is insanse and plenty to get my adrenaline pumping.
Agreed
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      06-02-2020, 04:54 AM   #75
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This or nothing.
I think bmw lost their way already .
E63 m6 my second pick .
Other bmw M is not an M car they are a joke as others said.

Thanks
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      06-02-2020, 05:56 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Mhorton79 View Post
Absolutely. 2020 has sucked so hard. Ready for this year to be done. Jeez.
We have a lot more coming before this crap of a year ends
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      06-02-2020, 07:04 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yasintrotman View Post
If it's electric, it's not an M. What a shame.
E46 M3 w/SMG: If it's not a manual it's not an M -

E90 M3 w/V8 and DCT: If it's not an I6/manual it's not a M3
E60 M5 w/SMG: No manual, not an M.

F8X: DCT is OK, turbocharging is OK for the tuner non-track driving crowd
F10/F90: ZF8HP - Not an M

See a theme?


I would be akin to me saying "You're not a real automotive enthusiast if you don't **"

**Track your M-car
**Own rather than lease a M
**Have at least one late model BMW in garage.
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      06-02-2020, 07:07 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Euro legislation will be aimed at the manufacturers don't you think, regardless of where they sell to?
China is also a large factor.
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      06-02-2020, 07:10 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
China is also a large factor.
Yes indeed.

Are they allowed to drive above 50?
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      06-02-2020, 07:43 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Yes indeed.

Are they allowed to drive above 50?
75 mph is max.
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      06-02-2020, 08:04 AM   #81
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The very opposite is equally if not more likely.

That is, once the vehicle itself does not pollute, there is no emissions-centric regulatory hurdle holding back power system output. At that point, the cost to produce a compliant 1000hp vehicle becomes close to the cost to produce a compliant 500hp vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Get ready to understand that the continual increase in power will soon stop.

The switch to electric power is for reasons of sustainability, so how long will it be before legislators decide that we don't need to get to 60 faster than x seconds?

This will happen by a restriction on power, which will lead to manufacturers to think hard about weight and range.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were all restricted to no more than 500 hp within 5 years.
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      06-02-2020, 08:47 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Yes kind of. Mazda has no real plans for going electric and I think they'll do just fine far more fuel efficient ICE engines than most other companies, although I don't know what their European sales sheet looks like.
...
Mazda does not have real plans?
Mazda offers the all new fully electric MX30 here. A good mid range car that fits most peoples needs for a DD car, at least here in Europe and except Germany
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      06-02-2020, 09:45 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st
Sound is an integral part of ultimate driving experience.
What sound are you referring to? It can't possibly be from the current M cars.
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      06-02-2020, 09:50 AM   #84
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I'm so disappointed in BMW. They've had years to get their electric program up to speed and they'll still be using pouch cells in 2024?!

Even if Tesla is late on production, they'll likely already have a 2024 i5M-killer in the Roadster and Model S Plaid hitting the roads.

I've been bearish on Tesla for years because I believe the Germans could catch up to the e-tech side while using their superior build quality and chassis dynamics to clobber the Americans. (I'm a recently former Model S and X owner Fwiw)

But now, I'm starting to doubt that anyone can catch up to Tesla in powertrain. And 5 years is a good stretch of time...maybe long enough for Tesla to edge towards fit/finish and dynamics that challenge the Germans.
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      06-02-2020, 10:34 AM   #85
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I'm so disappointed in BMW. They've had years to get their electric program up to speed and they'll still be using pouch cells in 2024?!

Even if Tesla is late on production, they'll likely already have a 2024 i5M-killer in the Roadster and Model S Plaid hitting the roads.

I've been bearish on Tesla for years because I believe the Germans could catch up to the e-tech side while using their superior build quality and chassis dynamics to clobber the Americans. (I'm a recently former Model S and X owner Fwiw)

But now, I'm starting to doubt that anyone can catch up to Tesla in powertrain. And 5 years is a good stretch of time...maybe long enough for Tesla to edge towards fit/finish and dynamics that challenge the Germans.
The investment community basically gave Tesla permission to loose money every year for about a decade.

No legacy automaker would be afforded that same luxury.
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      06-02-2020, 10:48 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
A G60 i5 BEV is not hard to believe. And a high output version of that car is a logical next step.

However, at this point I would still stop short of expecting a BEV to be branded as an M5 as soon as next generation. It is not impossible of course, but I suspect the PHEV model alone to wear that name. Now, does that mean there will be no M branding on the high output i5? No. In fact, it seems likely at this point. And perhaps it will be named something new and more exciting than simply "i5 M". But not M5, IMHO - not yet. Post 2030? Yes.
Battery technology will simply NOT be ready for a full on M car by 2024. The electric M car that the magazine is referring to will be an M branded i5.

Just like the next generation 7 series (G70) will be available in BEV form as the i7, the next generation 5 series (G60) will also be available in BEV form as the i5. Likewise, just like the top variant of the i7 is rumored to be branded as the i7 M60, the top variant of the i5 will be branded i5 Mxx.
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      06-02-2020, 11:41 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Teutonic View Post
It can be the fastest, the nicest, the whatever.
Once they go electric, I am out.
What he said and I have owned a lot of M cars.
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      06-02-2020, 11:47 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Yes there was a video with Chris Harris trying to drive one one track. The Taycan didn't even last a few laps before the tires needed to be changed. The Model S is only 200lbs lighter than the Taycan. These electric cars are basically meant for street driving only. I drove a P100D with Ludicrous+ and yes while the launch was fun and gimmicky, it was a one trick pony to me, in the end.
This! My buddy has a P85 and I went out in a P100D with him once. Yeah, it's fast in a straight line, but it did nothing for me. If I can't have my performance ICE cars, then what is the point of dropping 100-150k on a car? Might as well just get the cheapest thing out there since all electric cars feel like appliances.
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