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      06-01-2020, 05:19 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatcat View Post
I know what your saying but you are making it more complicated with EV's weight, performance, and etc.

I was more referring to just the stock market, Tesla is worth more than Daimler, BMW, and VW group combined, and all Tesla does is electric cars and barely scraping by. And yet the stock went up another 63 dollar today to almost $900 with a market cap of $166B (BMW is about $38B).

So the current perception is making electric cars is more valuable. Whether or not this should the case is up for another debate. To me it still baffles my mind that Tesla is worth more than German big 3 combined but for now that is the case.

Hence I said I'm not surprised German automakers have to announce or plan more and more electric cars just to show investors and shareholders that they are keeping up with the times.
Because market cap is what makes a company great? Or what determines how good their products are? Stock market valuation is a terrible metric to use, especially in this case.

Talk to some Tesla owners. Yes the cars are fast and Tesla is pushing the industry in to much needed change. But, their cars are not built well and the after purchase experience is abysmal. Tesla makes rockets and flame throwers and really good batteries. But a car company they are not. And I just don't see them changing because of Elon's ego. And that will be their demise. By them VW, BMW and others will have great electric cars and will be able to support them after the fact. Parts will be available and there will be shops to fix them.
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      06-01-2020, 05:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyDad View Post
No thanks. I don't need more power. Just make it lighter, please! Save the electricity for the non-M cars. Nobody needs this much power. We have already reached the point where you can only step on the throttle for 4 seconds at a time before going to jail or flying off a mountain. I just got back from a spirited drive on empty mountain roads and my "base" 2018 M5 easily gets up to 110 mph on 40mph switchbacks! This is insanse and plenty to get my adrenaline pumping.
It's not about speed, it's about emissions. Also taxes (in Europe) are killing combustion engines super fast. A tesla S performance pays less annual taxes than a kia i10 1.0 3-cyl. It has come to the point that I would have to refuse a free given M5 because of the variable costs that are insane. Also for this, resale value is dramatic.
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      06-01-2020, 05:32 PM   #47
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We all new it was coming sooner or later. The times they are a-changin!
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      06-01-2020, 05:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Tesla killer?
👍🏽

It's about time ‼️
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      06-01-2020, 06:20 PM   #49
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Hydrogen... the real future. Once the electric battery fad passes.

Make it combustible hydrogen, and we get real acoustics, skip asd!
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      06-01-2020, 07:07 PM   #50
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I agree w/ Speed Daddy, make the M5 lighter and tune it, that's all I need going forward.
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      06-01-2020, 08:12 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
I think I remember the video with the Taycan and M5 on track, and the Taycan tires were *crying* on every turn lol
Yes there was a video with Chris Harris trying to drive one one track. The Taycan didn't even last a few laps before the tires needed to be changed. The Model S is only 200lbs lighter than the Taycan. These electric cars are basically meant for street driving only. I drove a P100D with Ludicrous+ and yes while the launch was fun and gimmicky, it was a one trick pony to me, in the end.
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      06-01-2020, 09:48 PM   #52
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Doubt many people want electric M cars at the moment...

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      06-01-2020, 09:54 PM   #53
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Why do I need 1000 hp on a 2 ton street car? Instead make it lighter and nimbler e with better steering feel!
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      06-01-2020, 10:07 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Also forgot to mention Cadillac is at least trying to keep things pure. Soon we'll see a four door sedan with a 650hp Supercharged engine with RWD only and a manual transmission with a weight of maybe under 4,200lbs. It won't have the quality fit, finish, and luxury of a German car but it'll be fun. As I've said before, not everyone wants a soulless 0-60 and 1/4 mile car.
Are you thinking of the CT4 Blackwing or the CT5 Blackwing. Ive never sat in a CT4, but the CT5 was very nice in terms of materials and style.
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      06-01-2020, 10:10 PM   #55
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Although BMW knows that it would have been wiser to switch to larger Tesla-style round cells for safety, stability and performance reasons, it is now too late for such a radical change"

So it will be less safe than tesla battery? Cool story car magazine.
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      06-01-2020, 10:15 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
Are you thinking of the CT4 Blackwing or the CT5 Blackwing. Ive never sat in a CT4, but the CT5 was very nice in terms of materials and style.
It's gonna be the CT5-V Blackwing.

RWD? Check!
Manual Transmission? Check!
Lightweight Chassis? Check!
650hp Supercharged Engine? Check!
Good Steering Feel? Check!
4 Door Sports Sedan that doesn't cost $140,000? Check!

It's basically gonna almost be a modern Supercharged E39 M5 with 650hp.

And yes the Interior of the CT5 ain't bad at all.

'MURICA!
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      06-01-2020, 10:32 PM   #57
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If it's electric, it's not an M. What a shame.
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      06-01-2020, 10:46 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
It's gonna be the CT5-V Blackwing.

RWD? Check!
Manual Transmission? Check!
Lightweight Chassis? Check!
650hp Supercharged Engine? Check!
Good Steering Feel? Check!
4 Door Sports Sedan that doesn't cost $140,000? Check!

It's basically gonna almost be a modern Supercharged E39 M5 with 650hp.

And yes the Interior of the CT5 ain't bad at all.

'MURICA!
I'm actually excited to try out a CT5-Blackwing and CT4-Blackwing if they give it a new V6 when they come to dealers. I loved the previous CTS-V so honestly I'm glad their using the more characterful LT2 engine over the Twin-Turbo Blackwing engine. While the CT5 isn't my favorite looking Cadi, I'm sure the Blackwing specific details will spice things up (plus it looks better than the front of the new M3/4). Only thing from the last CTS-V I wanted was a Manual, better interior and a Wagon, and it looks like at least the first two will happen - and the CEO hasn't ruled out a wagon yet!
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      06-01-2020, 10:54 PM   #59
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Hmmm....
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      06-01-2020, 11:03 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yasintrotman View Post
If it's electric, it's not an M. What a shame.
A lot can happen in 4 years to bring down the weight of batteries.

It might actually be an amazing car.

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      06-01-2020, 11:03 PM   #61
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https://www.inverse.com/innovation/b...t-electric-car
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      06-01-2020, 11:04 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Are you thinking of the CT4 Blackwing or the CT5 Blackwing. Ive never sat in a CT4, but the CT5 was very nice in terms of materials and style.
It's gonna be the CT5-V Blackwing.

RWD? Check!
Manual Transmission? Check!
Lightweight Chassis? Check!
650hp Supercharged Engine? Check!
Good Steering Feel? Check!
4 Door Sports Sedan that doesn't cost $140,000? Check!

It's basically gonna almost be a modern Supercharged E39 M5 with 650hp.

And yes the Interior of the CT5 ain't bad at all.

'MURICA![/QUOTE]
The Cadillac forums are calling your name...

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      06-01-2020, 11:08 PM   #63
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Q - how do they know it's a G60 vs.. say G70?
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      06-01-2020, 11:08 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Until BMW has a charging network equivalent to Tesla's Worldwide Supercharger Network they aren't going to ever compete with Tesla.
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      06-01-2020, 11:17 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealm3 View Post
Because market cap is what makes a company great? Or what determines how good their products are? Stock market valuation is a terrible metric to use, especially in this case.

Talk to some Tesla owners. Yes the cars are fast and Tesla is pushing the industry in to much needed change. But, their cars are not built well and the after purchase experience is abysmal. Tesla makes rockets and flame throwers and really good batteries. But a car company they are not. And I just don't see them changing because of Elon's ego. And that will be their demise. By them VW, BMW and others will have great electric cars and will be able to support them after the fact. Parts will be available and there will be shops to fix them.
Market cap is what makes shareholders happy and unfortunately BMW is also a public company so their shareholders can't be happy Tesla is worth multiple times they are.

I also have a Tesla and I think they are good cars. If they are not why would the company worth $166B? For years many people (including this forum) predicted the demise of Tesla, yet it just goes higher and higher, to the point one has to wonder if it will ever come down.

Anyways I'm not here to defend Tesla or promote Tesla, at heart I'm a ICE guy. I was just saying BMW and other brands are forced to accelerate their development of electric cars because Tesla's presence and sky high valuation.
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      06-01-2020, 11:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
Q - how do they know it's a G60 vs.. say G70?
G70 is the upcoming 7-series replacement.
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