[Savoy2001]

So I been thinking lately side I have the itch for something new.
I currently have and do love a 23 X5MC l with around 29k miles. So I put in a deposit for the first allocation for the new M5 whenever we get that and I still am very interested in that. But the latest news regarding the weight and all is very off putting honestly. I’m concerned because I’m coming from an suv that weighs roughly what the new M5 they are saying will weight. Albeit with s as lower center of gravity but still weight is weight. I wanted to maybe get buck into a car with performance as a dd potentially. But now I’m not so sure but we’ll see when introduced.

That brings me to the rs7 performance. Looking car. Very sexy imo. Nice interior etc etc. I’ve always loved bmw first but Audi always a second place behind bmw. So my question is has anyone driven or owned a current gen lci f90 and also a current gen rs7 performance? They made the engine 630hp now so very nice. But in a little skeptical because over heard that platform has a tendency to over steer? Because the engine is forward of the front axel?

So just looking for general info on the two. I’ve driven an f90. Loved it. I love my x5mc also. Will I also love the rs7 or just wait for new m5 and if that sucks get a lightly used f90 and or something else? I would like to go see one at possibly dive one. It’s so sexy imo. Really draws me in. You know lol.

[Savoy2001]

No one has any experience or input on this?

[josec70]

I’ve not owned an RS7 Performance so I can’t speak as to how it drives or compares to an F90 M5.

What I can say is that I find the styling on the F90 M5 to be superior to the RS7.

Frankly, I find the RS7 to be somewhat polarizing. Either you like how it looks or you don’t … I personally don’t like it at all.

Given the next gen M5 will be a heavy hybrid, your best bet may be a low-mileage F90 LCI M5.

This is a BMW forum so I will end with the obvious … there is no sedan that touches the M5 (especially at the price point) … hell, BMW created the super saloon others have tried to copy.

Do the right thing LOL.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by josec70

I’ve not owned an RS7 Performance so I can’t speak as to how it drives or compares to an F90 M5.

What I can say is that I find the styling on the F90 M5 to be superior to the RS7.

Frankly, I find the RS7 to be somewhat polarizing. Either you like how it looks or you don’t … I personally don’t like it at all.

Given the next gen M5 will be a heavy hybrid, your best bet may be a low-mileage F90 LCI M5.

This is a BMW forum so I will end with the obvious … there is no sedan that touches the M5 (especially at the price point) … hell, BMW created the super saloon others have tried to copy.

Do the right thing LOL.

So I definitely get where you’re coming from here. I’m absolutely a bmw fan first. But I will also say I’m a car enthusiast and so a gorgeous sexy car is a gorgeous sexy car. Whoever makes it. That said, the new m5 is making me think about moving away from the brand for this next purchase possibly. In the end I’m going to most likely at least wait for the official announcement and see what they actually did and what this behemoth will weight. I’m also as I said and you suggested thinking of a lci f90. Which I do love also. However the rs7 is a very very good looking car imo. Audi good a good job styling wise. Interior is nice also however I believe they are on the cusp of the doing the entire car soon aren’t they? One two years? Which means that interior and tech will be out done soon. So ya but I don’t know. I like to charge dd cars every two years or so.

Still would love to hear opinions though.

[BlueSander]

I would not worry about the weight here. You have to remember that all the added weight will be sitting below you. If anything, it will be something you have never felt before. Significantly lower center of gravity, huge more torque. I'm more worried about the styling.

[subterFUSE]

I turned in my 2020 M5 Comp lease a year ago.

Replaced it with a 2023 Audi R8 and a 2023 Audi S8.



The S8 is a nice car, but it's not on par with BMW. No two ways about it, BMW and Mercedes both outclass Audi easily. They are just more refined cars. My 2023 S8 feels like it's about 10 years older than a 2023 Merc S580. The tech on the Merc is simply astonishing. BMWs just plain drive better. Nowhere does it feel more apparant than on the highway at speed. A BMW feels solid, planted, unflappable. My Audi S8 feels light, squirrely, and frenetic. Audi feels like a stiff wind could blow it off the road, while the BMW feels like a tank. It' not that the Audi is a bad car, it just feels different.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by BlueSander

I would not worry about the weight here. You have to remember that all the added weight will be sitting below you. If anything, it will be something you have never felt before. Significantly lower center of gravity, huge more torque. I'm more worried about the styling.

Fair points. Yes the lower the weight the better. And I’ve never driven something sedan or coupe wise so heavy. So I have to compare it to is my current 23 x5mc which will weight about the same as this g90. Of course my truck is much higher center of gravity. Thing that’s making me think is part of the reason I’m liking to get back into a car even though I love the x5m is I wanted a lighter more nimble car again. The thought of getting into a car that weighs the save is like wtf? What’s the point? You know. But I get what you’re saying.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

I turned in my 2020 M5 Comp lease a year ago.

Replaced it with a 2023 Audi R8 and a 2023 Audi S8.



The S8 is a nice car, but it's not on par with BMW. No two ways about it, BMW and Mercedes both outclass Audi easily. They are just more refined cars. My 2023 S8 feels like it's about 10 years older than a 2023 Merc S580. The tech on the Merc is simply astonishing. BMWs just plain drive better. Nowhere does it feel more apparant than on the highway at speed. A BMW feels solid, planted, unflappable. My Audi S8 feels light, squirrely, and frenetic. Audi feels like a stiff wind could blow it off the road, while the BMW feels like a tank. It' not that the Audi is a bad car, it just feels different.

Interesting to hear. Although the s8 isn’t an RS7. I don’t know alot about the Audi lineup. How much different is the s8 vs rs7? S8 is like a regular 5/7 series vs m5 m8 no?

[subterFUSE]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Interesting to hear. Although the s8 isn’t an RS7. I don’t know alot about the Audi lineup. How much different is the s8 vs rs7? S8 is like a regular 5/7 series vs m5 m8 no?

Once you get to the A6 series and higher, all Audi cars are very similar. You can feel the brand DNA in every one of them. From the interior most people wouldn't even see the difference from an S8 vs RS7, with the obvious exception of the back seats. The dash, the center console, the MMI, the stereo, the HUD, it's all the same.

Audis all tend to drive the same. That semi-loose feeling on the highway carries over to all of them. My 2013 S6 felt that way. My 2023 S8 feels that way. My ex-wife's SQ5 felt that way. Even my R8 feels a little frenetic at high speeds. For example, I drove an R8 on the autobahn a few years ago and over 150 mph I could feel the car lifting a bit and getting squirrely. I was afraid to take it much faster than about 160 mph. Both my 2012 Merc S63 and 2020 BMW M5 Comp felt more stable at those speeds. I drove both of those cars to their electronic limits of 186 mph, and they still felt in control.

I'm not saying any of this to argue that Audi are bad cars. They're great cars and I love mine. It's just that I have a lot of seat time in Audi, BMW and Mercedes having owned all of them over many years and these are the differences I have felt. BMW and Mercedes just drive better. You feel more confident in them at high speed. And the technology on them is more advanced, particularly Mercedes. I spent 2 months driving a 2023 S580 before I got my 2023 S8, and the tech on that Merc is really impressive. The 3D augmented reality HUD makes my S8 HUD look like a Fisher-Price kids toy.

Audis sure do look better, though.
Their designs are so much cooler looking.


I ended up with the 2023 S8 because I needed a car immediately and I could actually find S8s on car lots with the options I wanted. To get an S580 the way I wanted would have been a special order build and I just didn't have time for that. Audi also had big rebates on the A8/S8 to clear out the 2023 inventory. The BMW 7 series was never a consideration. Too ugly now, I just can't do it.



As for the engine, the S8 has the same 4.0T engine as the RS7. The RS7 is tuned for a little more HP to genuflect to the RS badge a bit. I don't know how the performance of the RS7 compares to the S8, however. It's sort of a moot point, as the S8 is a giant long-wheelbase sedan so track performance is not a metric that ranks high for owners.

Since I have an R8 in my garage, I don't need my daily driver to be a small and sporty car. I want something big and comfortable for long trips and driving around town. With the S8, I can go to dinner and drive my friends comfortably. They are both over 6 feet tall yet the back seat is perfectly fine and they can stretch out.

Personally, I don't care for the RS7. That car occupies a funky segment of the car market which I have never understood. It's basically a 4 seater, with a low roofline so that adults can't sit comfortably in the back, and a hatchback trunk that is somewhat limited on luggage capacity due to the sloped rear window and roof line. For example, my german shepherd could not ride in the back of an RS7 because she can't stand up (the window is too low).

I think an RS6 is the better car vs. RS7 because it has a more useful trunk space with a taller roof line. Put doggo in the back and it's obvious. The RS6 looks better, too.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

Once you get to the A6 series and higher, all Audi cars are very similar. You can feel the brand DNA in every one of them. From the interior most people wouldn't even see the difference from an S8 vs RS7, with the obvious exception of the back seats. The dash, the center console, the MMI, the stereo, the HUD, it's all the same.

Audis all tend to drive the same. That semi-loose feeling on the highway carries over to all of them. My 2013 S6 felt that way. My 2023 S8 feels that way. My ex-wife's SQ5 felt that way. Even my R8 feels a little frenetic at high speeds. For example, I drove an R8 on the autobahn a few years ago and over 150 mph I could feel the car lifting a bit and getting squirrely. I was afraid to take it much faster than about 160 mph. Both my 2012 Merc S63 and 2020 BMW M5 Comp felt more stable at those speeds. I drove both of those cars to their electronic limits of 186 mph, and they still felt in control.

I'm not saying any of this to argue that Audi are bad cars. They're great cars and I love mine. It's just that I have a lot of seat time in Audi, BMW and Mercedes having owned all of them over many years and these are the differences I have felt. BMW and Mercedes just drive better. You feel more confident in them at high speed. And the technology on them is more advanced, particularly Mercedes. I spent 2 months driving a 2023 S580 before I got my 2023 S8, and the tech on that Merc is really impressive. The 3D augmented reality HUD makes my S8 HUD look like a Fisher-Price kids toy.

Audis sure do look better, though.
Their designs are so much cooler looking.


I ended up with the 2023 S8 because I needed a car immediately and I could actually find S8s on car lots with the options I wanted. To get an S580 the way I wanted would have been a special order build and I just didn't have time for that. Audi also had big rebates on the A8/S8 to clear out the 2023 inventory. The BMW 7 series was never a consideration. Too ugly now, I just can't do it.



As for the engine, the S8 has the same 4.0T engine as the RS7. The RS7 is tuned for a little more HP to genuflect to the RS badge a bit. I don't know how the performance of the RS7 compares to the S8, however. It's sort of a moot point, as the S8 is a giant long-wheelbase sedan so track performance is not a metric that ranks high for owners.

Since I have an R8 in my garage, I don't need my daily driver to be a small and sporty car. I want something big and comfortable for long trips and driving around town. With the S8, I can go to dinner and drive my friends comfortably. They are both over 6 feet tall yet the back seat is perfectly fine and they can stretch out.

Personally, I don't care for the RS7. That car occupies a funky segment of the car market which I have never understood. It's basically a 4 seater, with a low roofline so that adults can't sit comfortably in the back, and a hatchback trunk that is somewhat limited on luggage capacity due to the sloped rear window and roof line. For example, my german shepherd could not ride in the back of an RS7 because she can't stand up (the window is too low).

I think an RS6 is the better car vs. RS7 because it has a more useful trunk space with a taller roof line. Put doggo in the back and it's obvious. The RS6 looks better, too.

Good info. Thank you. Rs6 is nice but if your not a wagon fan then no dice. I think the RS7 is a very good looking car. That said I'm not sold on it and was just considering it. I think I will prefer the driving dynamics of an M car .

[subterFUSE]

Right now, my intention is to replace my S8 with an M5 Touring after the lease expires in Sept 2026. But, that plan could certainly change based on how the new M5 actually looks and feels. I'll have plenty of time to let other forum guys test it out for me before it's time for me to make a decision.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

I turned in my 2020 M5 Comp lease a year ago.

Replaced it with a 2023 Audi R8 and a 2023 Audi S8.



The S8 is a nice car, but it's not on par with BMW. No two ways about it, BMW and Mercedes both outclass Audi easily. They are just more refined cars. My 2023 S8 feels like it's about 10 years older than a 2023 Merc S580. The tech on the Merc is simply astonishing. BMWs just plain drive better. Nowhere does it feel more apparant than on the highway at speed. A BMW feels solid, planted, unflappable. My Audi S8 feels light, squirrely, and frenetic. Audi feels like a stiff wind could blow it off the road, while the BMW feels like a tank. It' not that the Audi is a bad car, it just feels different.

Your S8 is broken. Everyone who reviews them, finds them more solid and better in stability than the M760Li and S 63 AMG.

I have owned a ton of AMGs and Ms and have driven plenty of Audi RS'. Never owned an Audi RS, because I could never have gotten deals as nice as I got on the AMG and M counterparts. They are brilliant cars. Your assessment that Audi is 10 years behind is one of the biggest non-sense I have read on the forum.

The RS6 C8 is as nice as the M5 F90, its all a matter of personal preference. I find that the M5 has better handling but is less comfortable. Different compromises for different people.

[subterFUSE]

I drove a 2023 S580 for 2 months and then got a 2023 S8. The tech on the S580 is a full generation ahead. The 3D HUD and instrument cluster, the autonomous drive features, etc.... are noticeably more advanced on the Merc. It was like going back in time switching to the S8.

[CarlosM4]

But the S8 is an older generation car. You can't compare a W223 to a D5 Audi A8. Its like comparing a F90 to a C7 RS6.

The S580 is a disappointment too. Full of techy stuff, but worse build quality and chassis dynamics to a W222. The new BMW I7 too, great tech but an older G11 7 is nicer to drive.

Although this appears to be a trend in german car makers as the G30 to G60, saw a massive decline in chassis engineering and build quality, and the same can be said about the newest gen Audi A3s. Audi is the latest to come up with the new gens, lets see if they cock up too.

Being quite honest, I think all german offerings are pretty equivalent in what they deliver and provide (if you compare same gen and models). It all comes down to personal preference. And I still see Audi, ahead on the headlight game to BMW and Merc (same gen cars)

[subterFUSE]

Yeah, I got my matrix headlights enabled on the S8. It's a really cool feature. The S580 had matrix headlights but they were not enabled. No idea if they work as well as Audi's or not.

I did not like the S580 door handles. They went Tesla-style with the retracting handles. They feel cheap and are awkward to use, and they did not always pop out when I wanted. But overall it was a great car and I was seriously considering it, but couldn't find one spec'd how I wanted.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

Yeah, I got my matrix headlights enabled on the S8. It's a really cool feature. The S580 had matrix headlights but they were not enabled. No idea if they work as well as Audi's or not.

I did not like the S580 door handles. They went Tesla-style with the retracting handles. They feel cheap and are awkward to use, and they did not always pop out when I wanted. But overall it was a great car and I was seriously considering it, but couldn't find one spec'd how I wanted.

I like the new S-Class, but so far the car has been crept with issues and for some mysterious reason, they removed the ABC Suspension and other great Magic Body Control on the new car. The new "E-Active Body Control" is far simpler than the previous ABC and MBC.

The same can be said about BMW removing the carbon core in the 7-Series. I don't understand why the german carmakers are going backwards in their chassis engineering while investing in the tech and gadget department. The new I7 and S-Class is like a tech guy's wet dream.

Nonetheless like I said, all are pretty good cars.

[subterFUSE]

My S8 is so far problem-free. A number of people are reporting serious problems involving the belt start generator that charges the 48V battery. It's an undrivable failure, car must be towed to dealer. I'm hoping to avoid this on a 3/36 lease.

[BeAtCoAsTeR]

I have a 2014 A6 3.0t which is tuned and heavily modded, along with my 2021 M5 Comp(which is now on it's way to being heavily modded). Chassis wise, it's the C7, not the new C8, but the C7(2012-2018) chassis for the A/S/RS cars are all pretty damn good, so imagine the C8 is as well. My A6 feels light and nimble in corners while the F90 feels heavy and is getting better(with the Dinan suspension parts/KW HAS kit) now, but stock feels much heavier and I want to go slower in the corners with it. There is a ~400lb difference between the two though, with the F90 being heavier. My tuned A6 can hang from a standstill until about 45mph, then the F90 starts walking it. I wouldn't kick either car out of my garage though, and would hope the C8 chassis for the Audi's is a step ahead of the C7's, but they are getting porky just like the new G90's will be. Comically, the Audi now has 61k miles on it and has never had one single issue, even with it being tuned for the last 30k miles, just oil changes and maintenance; meanwhile I've only had the F90 since last summer and it's been in the shop 5 different times for warrantable issues already...

[S EyeLand]

Definitely get the Audi. Far superior in every way.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by S EyeLand

Definitely get the Audi. Far superior in every way.

Ok. Well care to elaborate? What’s so superior? Driving dynamics? Build quality? Looks? Tech? What?

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by BeAtCoAsTeR

I have a 2014 A6 3.0t which is tuned and heavily modded, along with my 2021 M5 Comp(which is now on it's way to being heavily modded). Chassis wise, it's the C7, not the new C8, but the C7(2012-2018) chassis for the A/S/RS cars are all pretty damn good, so imagine the C8 is as well. My A6 feels light and nimble in corners while the F90 feels heavy and is getting better(with the Dinan suspension parts/KW HAS kit) now, but stock feels much heavier and I want to go slower in the corners with it. There is a ~400lb difference between the two though, with the F90 being heavier. My tuned A6 can hang from a standstill until about 45mph, then the F90 starts walking it. I wouldn't kick either car out of my garage though, and would hope the C8 chassis for the Audi's is a step ahead of the C7's, but they are getting porky just like the new G90's will be. Comically, the Audi now has 61k miles on it and has never had one single issue, even with it being tuned for the last 30k miles, just oil changes and maintenance; meanwhile I've only had the F90 since last summer and it's been in the shop 5 different times for warrantable issues already...

This is cool info but the s6 being compared to a f90 is a valid comparison? Isn’t the a8/rs7/8 etc the correct car to compare? I would think no? Isn’t the rs7 the direct competition for the m5/m8 platform?

[S EyeLand]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Ok. Well care to elaborate? What’s so superior? Driving dynamics? Build quality? Looks? Tech? What?

All the above, I think that's the consensus as well. Looks easily go to the Audi, its faster, handles better, sounds better and is more reliable. maybe build quality the F90 can compete with then the coolant tank comes to mind. I think the F90 is better compared to the S6 or A6 but the RS is on another planet in terms of overall package.

edit I would probably only choose the F90 over an A7.