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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 vs...    M5C vs E63S (Reliability)

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      12-04-2020, 01:06 AM   #1
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My wife and I are cross shopping the two obvious replacements for her C63S while we find a new owner for it. We managed to test drive both last weekend and had mixed feeling on each.

E63S:
We drove this car first and thought it was perfect (it was an Edition 1). Very nice interior, looked great in satin black, sounded fantastic and was quick. A lot of people seem to complain about ride quality but we had no issue with it. Coming from her lowered W205, M2 and Abarth, the stock E63 was smooth lol. Seemed like it was everything we always wanted the C63 to be. In my opinion the power of the C63 makes it feel too unbalanced to drive spiritedly. Really the main concern was the paint maintenance for me.

M5C:
The following day I found a M5C to test out. Oh man, the car sound so much better than the normal M5 and feels much quicker than I remember. We couldn't stop laughing during all the pulls we were doing, it almost made us think the E63 was slow in comparison. After some research I realized it's the way the M5 delivers power and other YouTube videos show the same. The transmission on the M5 was much smoother and a less eventful (pro or con?). The main disappointment for me was the steering feel, the M5C feels pretty numb. It goes where you point it but there's little to no feedback on where the wheels are, E63S wins this aspect.

So each car has its pros.
M5C: easier to mod, faster, exterior looks better (wife disagrees), iDrive (significantly better than command), better AWD system
E63S: better interior, better sound, better steering feel, will retain more value in coming years, has bucket seat option (requirement for us in AMGs)

Whatever we buy will get intakes, downpipes, and a tune, so I was interested in seeing which one can handle the ~650-700whp best (torque limited tune to 650wtq?). After continuing to read about each car, the F90 seems to be a bit more reliable than the F10 was and doesn't have the transmission handicap. The E63S on the other hand seems to have potential electrical bugs, transmission and diff failures, and even suspension leaks.

Hoping to get some insight from owners of one, or both, in terms of reliability and overall experience. We generally put about 12-15k miles a year on a car, and same would apply here.
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Last edited by pooyab; 12-04-2020 at 05:29 AM..
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      12-04-2020, 12:34 PM   #2
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I would say that your analysis of the two seems pretty spot on from everything I have ever heard about them. Another thing that I will mention is that—according to other threads, such as out on the “main” forum here—BMW seems to really be cracking down on tunes and such, to the point of “flagging” such owners in case of warranty repairs.

Another thing seems to be the comfort level difference between the two models. In many places I have heard that, as rough as some say the M5C might be, even in comfort mode, it is still much smoother than the E63S, so if that is important to you, just one more thing to consider.
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      12-06-2020, 07:51 PM   #3
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We've had the ED1 E63s and that car has been rock solid. There are no hardware issues to speak of and the issue the W213's had were primarily software related.
Loved the fact that I could lower the car in seconds via comand using a $300 ODB2 module.
Sound is immersive and the car stood out from the crowd. You could tell this is an AMG from a mile away.

I find the MB paints are harder and more durable than BMW paints and the Magno paint held up better than our current M8C sapphire black.

Our M8 is definitely the softer car to drive and I like the ZF slush box better than the AMG's multi-clutch tranny. AWD systems are comparable.

The AMG is clearly the slower car and can't be tuned to the extend that BMW's. But it isn't slow be any means. 3 second car. Sound of course goes to the AMG.

The only issue we had on the AMG was a manufacturing flaw on the CCB front rotors but MB was covering them under warranty with zero issues (even tough they are considered a consumable product).
I find BMW to be a penny pincher and it would have been less likely that they would have covered the $9k replacement costs...

Last edited by Wolfman64; 12-06-2020 at 09:26 PM..
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      12-06-2020, 10:09 PM   #4
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I have a friend with e63s, and I already lost count how many times he has been to service for major issues. Transmission doesn't shift properly to this day, and Mercedes replaced his real diff twice (car was all stock). Now he is struggling to tune the car properly, as some 3rd ecu keeps interfering with the tune and erases it over time.

Me on the other hand with my F90 M5 ***knock on wood*** I haven't been to the dealer once for anything major, or any warranty repairs to be exact.

I do like to listen to his car, on those rare occasions when he is not driving the CLA loaner from Mercedes service
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      12-07-2020, 06:13 AM   #5
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Unless you don’t care about a warranty you should not mod/code a BMW. They know everything and will void the warranty in a hot second. Buy them how you want them or pay the price.
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      12-07-2020, 08:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsf721 View Post
Unless you don’t care about a warranty you should not mod/code a BMW. They know everything and will void the warranty in a hot second. Buy them how you want them or pay the price.
Several people are going to have to be made an example out of.
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      12-07-2020, 09:23 PM   #7
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I believe both M5C and E63s are so close on being such great cars you really wouldn't go wrong with either of them. Reliability for the Germans has been getting better and better over the years. And in the future for major maintenance items, I'm sure there will be outside specialized shops willing to do it for a lot cheaper than Stealership.

I'd say at this point it comes down to which ones are available, and which color/ options speaks to you more?

I have both Magno paint and Frozen paint. I do have to say Merc Magno paint feels more solid and less susceptible to light scratching (will still scratch though for sure!) But as any matte paint, its not the paint won't last, more so what you and the environment will do to it, and the fact you can't repair it without doing a repaint!
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      12-08-2020, 01:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsf721 View Post
Unless you don’t care about a warranty you should not mod/code a BMW. They know everything and will void the warranty in a hot second. Buy them how you want them or pay the price.
Nah, never really cared about warranties. Driving a stock car is too boring, I don't do anything crazy in terms of tunes and power, and if the motor goes it's just a sign to do a built motor lol
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      12-08-2020, 01:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCAT View Post
I believe both M5C and E63s are so close on being such great cars you really wouldn't go wrong with either of them. Reliability for the Germans has been getting better and better over the years. And in the future for major maintenance items, I'm sure there will be outside specialized shops willing to do it for a lot cheaper than Stealership.

I'd say at this point it comes down to which ones are available, and which color/ options speaks to you more?

I have both Magno paint and Frozen paint. I do have to say Merc Magno paint feels more solid and less susceptible to light scratching (will still scratch though for sure!) But as any matte paint, its not the paint won't last, more so what you and the environment will do to it, and the fact you can't repair it without doing a repaint!
If I go with Magno I'm really hoping to find one that has PPF already. For the M5 I'd likely do a normal color then either stealth ppf or wrap it.
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      12-08-2020, 10:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooyab View Post
Nah, never really cared about warranties. Driving a stock car is too boring, I don't do anything crazy in terms of tunes and power, and if the motor goes it's just a sign to do a built motor lol
Exact same approach I take. I’m willing to take the risk. Plus, I think I’m going to build the engine on the F90 and go all in.
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      12-23-2020, 01:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooyab View Post
My wife and I are cross shopping the two obvious replacements for her C63S while we find a new owner for it. We managed to test drive both last weekend and had mixed feeling on each.

E63S:
We drove this car first and thought it was perfect (it was an Edition 1). Very nice interior, looked great in satin black, sounded fantastic and was quick. A lot of people seem to complain about ride quality but we had no issue with it. Coming from her lowered W205, M2 and Abarth, the stock E63 was smooth lol. Seemed like it was everything we always wanted the C63 to be. In my opinion the power of the C63 makes it feel too unbalanced to drive spiritedly. Really the main concern was the paint maintenance for me.

M5C:
The following day I found a M5C to test out. Oh man, the car sound so much better than the normal M5 and feels much quicker than I remember. We couldn't stop laughing during all the pulls we were doing, it almost made us think the E63 was slow in comparison. After some research I realized it's the way the M5 delivers power and other YouTube videos show the same. The transmission on the M5 was much smoother and a less eventful (pro or con?). The main disappointment for me was the steering feel, the M5C feels pretty numb. It goes where you point it but there's little to no feedback on where the wheels are, E63S wins this aspect.

So each car has its pros.
M5C: easier to mod, faster, exterior looks better (wife disagrees), iDrive (significantly better than command), better AWD system
E63S: better interior, better sound, better steering feel, will retain more value in coming years, has bucket seat option (requirement for us in AMGs)

Whatever we buy will get intakes, downpipes, and a tune, so I was interested in seeing which one can handle the ~650-700whp best (torque limited tune to 650wtq?). After continuing to read about each car, the F90 seems to be a bit more reliable than the F10 was and doesn't have the transmission handicap. The E63S on the other hand seems to have potential electrical bugs, transmission and diff failures, and even suspension leaks.

Hoping to get some insight from owners of one, or both, in terms of reliability and overall experience. We generally put about 12-15k miles a year on a car, and same would apply here.
Curious how the M5C sounds so much better than the M5? I have the regular M5, a 2020, although mine came with the M perf exhaust, every carbon fiber part you can get, and it's lowered, with 20 inch wheels, I test drove the M5 and the competition and the felt exactly the same... you can't notice a difference of 16 HP.
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      12-25-2020, 05:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padfan9 View Post
Curious how the M5C sounds so much better than the M5? I have the regular M5, a 2020, although mine came with the M perf exhaust, every carbon fiber part you can get, and it's lowered, with 20 inch wheels, I test drove the M5 and the competition and the felt exactly the same... you can't notice a difference of 16 HP.
The two I was comparing had stock exhaust for each model. The sports exhaust on the competition is better than the non-comp, but since you had MPE it's probably on par or better than the comp.
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