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View Poll Results: Who will prevail in the Internal Battle at The Scuderia?
Vettel: Old Age and Treachery beat Youth and Skill. 24 48.98%
LeClerc: Youth and Skill - Still Bright and Shiny!! 18 36.73%
Too close to call. 7 14.29%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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      01-11-2019, 11:47 AM   #1
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Vettel vs. LeClerc

It's 2019 and the day is rapidly coming when Vettel and LeClerc will line up for the Scuderia against Mercedes however that isn't the real battle. The real battle will be intrateam with Vettel vs. LeClerc for internal supremacy.

The protagonists are:

Sebastian Vettel, 4X WDC with 10+ years in the sport and team leader for the most iconic, famous, and perhaps...most important team in Formula One and all of motorsport. It's definitely the most famous name in the automotive industry. The last 2 years haven't been kind to his reputation as he's been crushed by HAM with 2018 being the worst drubbing. His judgement and coolness under fire has been called into question and he's now in a situation similar to 2014 with RIC at Redbull. Can he stand the pressure or will this be a career destroying year for VET?

Charles LeClerc, Ferrari Academy Graduate and just completed his first full year in Formula One with Sauber from which he graduated to The Scuderia. Viciously fast, excellent race craft, great feedback to engineers, and a seemingly all around good guy.

My take: This is HAM vs. ALO, Parte Deaux, 12 years later. I expect fireworks, butthurt, recriminations, and quite a bit of what occurred back at Macca in the old days. What say you?
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      01-11-2019, 12:23 PM   #2
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I like Vettel but Leclerc has so much talent and raw speed, what he did in the Sauber was amazing.
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      01-11-2019, 01:38 PM   #3
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Your thoughts?
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
usshelena725 1MOREMOD ///M Power-Belgium

Your thoughts?


This is hard for me, because I am and always will be a 90's and early 00's F1 snob. To me, drivers like Leclerc and Hamilton just don't hold a candle for me when compared to Vettel, Schumacher, Kimi, Alonso, Button, Coulthard, etc. The problem, is that I know I am being biased but am unable to help it.

That said, he has scored points on many occasions and getting attention for it to say the least. Don't get me wrong, I think the kid knows how to drive. I'm just not sure how much of his results he got because he's getting really that good, or that the Sauber was just way better than in previous years. He's very good, but don't expect him to wipe the floor with Vettel after joining Ferrari. Only when he's paired with another top-tier driver we'll know how good he really is.

Of course, what do I know - I thought that Hamilton was going to be a flash in the pan too.
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      01-11-2019, 04:21 PM   #5
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I'm a biased Vettel fan and I don't know much about LeClerc except what I've read. I think Vettel has at least one more run in him.

But, I think if Max matures from last year and his equipment hold up he may be the one to beat this season.

Either way it is going to be a fun year and plenty of story lines.
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      01-11-2019, 05:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
This is hard for me, because I am and always will be a 90's and early 00's F1 snob. To me, drivers like Leclerc and Hamilton just don't hold a candle for me when compared to Vettel, Schumacher, Kimi, Alonso, Button, Coulthard, etc. The problem, is that I know I am being biased but am unable to help it.

That said, he has scored points on many occasions and getting attention for it to say the least. Don't get me wrong, I think the kid knows how to drive. I'm just not sure how much of his results he got because he's getting really that good, or that the Sauber was just way better than in previous years. He's very good, but don't expect him to wipe the floor with Vettel after joining Ferrari. Only when he's paired with another top-tier driver we'll know how good he really is.

Of course, what do I know - I thought that Hamilton was going to be a flash in the pan too.
This is the first time I'm questioning your judgement!!

Vettel? OMG. The Red Mist with illegal cars? Kimi...fastest lap to win ratio shows that he's a bit of a bum. Coulthard? I know him...he admits that he doesn't have the spark a Hamilton or Senna has!

The Red Mist is in trouble. If I'm wrong on this I'll eat crow with humble pie for dessert but I expect him to have multiple meltdowns.

Cheers-mk
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      01-11-2019, 05:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I'm a biased Vettel fan and I don't know much about LeClerc except what I've read. I think Vettel has at least one more run in him.

But, I think if Max matures from last year and his equipment hold up he may be the one to beat this season.

Either way it is going to be a fun year and plenty of story lines.
I agree with the Max statement but I actually think Vettel is done. Again, I will eat crow with a side order of humble pie if he beats Leclerc by any appreciable amount.

Cheers-mk
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
This is the first time I'm questioning your judgement!!

Vettel? OMG. The Red Mist with illegal cars? Kimi...fastest lap to win ratio shows that he's a bit of a bum. Coulthard? I know him...he admits that he doesn't have the spark a Hamilton or Senna has!

The Red Mist is in trouble. If I'm wrong on this I'll eat crow with humble pie for dessert but I expect him to have multiple meltdowns.

Cheers-mk


Hey now, I told you I was biased and as such, didn't hold a rational opinion! LOL.

1) Kimi is my second favorite F1 driver of all time, right behind M.S. - so be kind to him.

2) I now officially hate you due to the fact you know Coulthard. My father was a professional race driver for nearly 25 years and the only drivers I ever met through him were the IMSA drivers John Paul Jr. and Hurley Haywood.
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      01-11-2019, 05:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Hey now, I told you I was biased and as such, didn't hold a rational opinion! LOL.

1) Kimi is my second favorite F1 driver of all time, right behind M.S. - so be kind to him.

2) I now officially hate you due to the fact you know Coulthard. My father was a professional race driver for nearly 25 years and the only drivers I ever met through him were the IMSA drivers John Paul Jr. and Hurley Haywood.
I've also met Niki Lauda, MSC, Nico Rosberg, Ross Brawn, Bernd Maylander, Norbet Haug, Susie Wolff, and bunch of other notables. Poor Robert Wickens was my driving instructor in Germany at Hockenheimring.

To increase the hate, David Couthard is the biggest party animal on the planet. Easily.

I love F1!!!!

Hurley Haywood and JP Jr are pretty great drivers!!
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      01-11-2019, 05:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I've also met Niki Lauda, MSC, Nico Rosberg, Ross Brawn, Bernd Maylander, Norbet Haug, Susie Wolff, and bunch of other notables. Poor Robert Wickens was my driving instructor in Germany at Hockenheimring.

To increase the hate, David Couthard is the biggest party animal on the planet. Easily.

I love F1!!!!

Hurley Haywood and JP Jr are pretty great drivers!!
My wife and I were planning a trip to Monaco before my daughter was born. It is still in the works but on hold till she is a bit older and can enjoy it more.

Bah! We will seriously have to have some discussions over drinks one day. I met both Haywood and JP Jr. at the 1984 Rolex 24 At Daytona. My dad was able to get us up into their pit areas so we hung out with all the techs during the race. It was pretty cool, especially as a kid (I was about 9 at the time). I have a photo somewhere of me together with them and some more of me sitting in the cars (IMSA Prototype Porsche's I believe).

My father raced Sprints and Midgets from the early 1950's to early 1970's, based out of Anaheim, CA and then St. Louis, MO. I think he raced for Offenhauser, but can't remember for sure. I know he attempted a run at the Indy 500 a few times in the mid 1950's as well. Said the speeds scared the hell out of him. He told me the story of attempting to qualify when Jerry Hoyt got the pole there in 1954 or 1955 (can't remember which year it was). He was racing against Hoyt in OKC when he crashed and died.

I still have all his old trophies.
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      01-11-2019, 05:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Hey now, I told you I was biased and as such, didn't hold a rational opinion! LOL.

1) Kimi is my second favorite F1 driver of all time, right behind M.S. - so be kind to him.

2) I now officially hate you due to the fact you know Coulthard. My father was a professional race driver for nearly 25 years and the only drivers I ever met through him were the IMSA drivers John Paul Jr. and Hurley Haywood.
I fell in love with racing in general and F1 in the mid to late eighties. So Senna will always be all time favorite F1 driver. It’s hard not to like MS though as well.

For NASCAR it will always be Dale Earnhardt and for the older Indy Car series it is Unser Jr for me.

The only driver I got to meet was AJ Foyt through a friend at Indy a couple of years ago. He was quite the character and that was a surreal 1/2 hour.

Sorry for the , but thanks for the trip down memory lane.
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      01-11-2019, 05:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
My wife and I were planning a trip to Monaco before my daughter was born. It is still in the works but on hold till she is a bit older and can enjoy it more.

Bah! We will seriously have to have some discussions over drinks one day. I met both Haywood and JP Jr. at the 1984 Rolex 24 At Daytona. My dad was able to get us up into their pit areas so we hung out with all the techs during the race. It was pretty cool, especially as a kid (I was about 9 at the time). I have a photo somewhere of me together with them and some more of me sitting in the cars (IMSA Prototype Porsche's I believe).

My father raced Sprints and Midgets from the early 1950's to early 1970's, based out of Anaheim, CA and then St. Louis, MO. I think he raced for Offenhauser, but can't remember for sure. I know he attempted a run at the Indy 500 a few times in the mid 1950's as well. Said the speeds scared the hell out of him. He told me the story of attempting to qualify when Jerry Hoyt got the pole there in 1954 or 1955 (can't remember which year it was). He was racing against Hoyt in OKC when he crashed and died.

I still have all his old trophies.
I remember this time...I'm a bit older than you. This is when regulations changed from the old Group 3, 4, 5 (the famous silhouette racers), and 6 racers to the Group C prototypes. I hated the transition at first but came to love the Group C cars. I preferred the older designation because they still looked like road cars even though they were purpose-built racers in Group 5. I remember reading in the late 70's that Porsche 935s were hitting 230 on the Mulsanne straight at LeMans and it left the biggest impression on me as a kid. The Group C 's weren't as fast but they could turn on a dime and leave you 6 cents in change. They were UNREAL.

I'm still waiting for them to make a movie about the Whittington Brothers. Their story reads like a James Bond novel.

Good Thread Jack!!
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      01-11-2019, 05:47 PM   #13
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Ascot Park??

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
My wife and I were planning a trip to Monaco before my daughter was born. It is still in the works but on hold till she is a bit older and can enjoy it more.

Bah! We will seriously have to have some discussions over drinks one day. I met both Haywood and JP Jr. at the 1984 Rolex 24 At Daytona. My dad was able to get us up into their pit areas so we hung out with all the techs during the race. It was pretty cool, especially as a kid (I was about 9 at the time). I have a photo somewhere of me together with them and some more of me sitting in the cars (IMSA Prototype Porsche's I believe).

My father raced Sprints and Midgets from the early 1950's to early 1970's, based out of Anaheim, CA and then St. Louis, MO. I think he raced for Offenhauser, but can't remember for sure. I know he attempted a run at the Indy 500 a few times in the mid 1950's as well. Said the speeds scared the hell out of him. He told me the story of attempting to qualify when Jerry Hoyt got the pole there in 1954 or 1955 (can't remember which year it was). He was racing against Hoyt in OKC when he crashed and died.

I still have all his old trophies.
I presume your dad raced at Ascot Park in Gardena, CA....massively fast 1/2 mile dirt track in SoCal. I used to drive up from San Diego for the Turkey Night Grand Prix....it was USAC Midgets and the driver lineup was simply incredible....Foyt, Andretti, Unser, etc....this race was held every Thanksgiving night for years. I took my wife to Ascot to see speedway bikes....on our honeymoon.
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      01-11-2019, 05:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I fell in love with racing in general and F1 in the mid to late eighties. So Senna will always be all time favorite F1 driver. It’s hard not to like MS though as well.

For NASCAR it will always be Dale Earnhardt and for the older Indy Car series it is Unser Jr for me.

The only driver I got to meet was AJ Foyt through a friend at Indy a couple of years ago. He was quite the character and that was a surreal 1/2 hour.

Sorry for the , but thanks for the trip down memory lane.
When Senna died I didn't watch for almost 2 years. It was worse than when Villeneuve died.
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Last edited by MKSixer; 01-12-2019 at 08:39 PM.
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      01-11-2019, 05:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
I presume your dad raced at Ascot Park in Gardena, CA....massively fast 1/2 mile dirt track in SoCal. I used to drive up from San Diego for the Turkey Night Grand Prix....it was USAC Midgets and the driver lineup was simply incredible....Foyt, Andretti, Unser, etc....this race was held every Thanksgiving night for years. I took my wife to Ascot to see speedway bikes....on our honeymoon.
Yessir!

On a side note, he got into USAC on accident. He was originally racing Triumph motorcycles on the dirt oval and broke his arm in a wreck. He was there hanging out with some buddies one night at a regional midget race and ended up subbing for a driver that had an issue and wasn't able to race. I believe he either won or placed in that first race ever and the rest was history. Worked his way up to USAC and raced for many years.
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      01-11-2019, 06:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Yessir!

On a side note, he got into USAC on accident. He was originally racing Triumph motorcycles on the dirt oval and broke his arm in a wreck. He was there hanging out with some buddies one night at a regional midget race and ended up subbing for a driver that had an issue and wasn't able to race. I believe he either won or placed in that first race ever and the rest was history. Worked his way up to USAC and raced for many years.
And don't forget...Super Tex raced at the 24 Hours of Daytona in a 935 that he'd never seen let alone driven and set pole position and an absolute lap record...IN THE RAIN. It was unreal. If memory serves he was teamed with the late Bob Wollek.

Good memories.

What's this thread about again...I forget.
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      01-12-2019, 11:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
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usshelena725 1MOREMOD ///M Power-Belgium

Your thoughts?
Thank you my friend . I saw some races from LeClerc , and he makes me think about Max . That's why I voted for LeClerc .
In 2018 I saw to many mistakes from Vettel , he can not show what he actually can perform under pressure.
Vettel failed to much under stress situations and pressure . And LeClerc will shine under pressure on the circuit !
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      01-12-2019, 11:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I'm a biased Vettel fan and I don't know much about LeClerc except what I've read. I think Vettel has at least one more run in him.

But, I think if Max matures from last year and his equipment hold up he may be the one to beat this season.

Either way it is going to be a fun year and plenty of story lines.
*IF* the Honda power unit is powerfull enough . I'm 100% sure Max can do it !
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      01-12-2019, 11:41 AM   #19
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Year one, I think Vettel's experience will prevail.
After that LeClerc all the way.

The kicker is that this may all work to Hamilton's benefit with the Ferrari duo splitting WDC points.

Ferrari wins the constuctor's & Hammy wins the WDC.
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      01-12-2019, 01:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
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*IF* the Honda power unit is powerfull enough . I'm 100% sure Max can do it !
Totally agree but that's a big IF

F1 needs a proper showdown Lewis - Max but my guess; it will only happen when Max joins Ferrari.
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      01-12-2019, 02:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM5 View Post
Totally agree but that's a big IF

F1 needs a proper showdown Lewis - Max but my guess; it will only happen when Max joins Ferrari.
Or a miracle supplied by Honda !
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      01-12-2019, 03:15 PM   #22
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geez, this is tough. my first inclination was Vettel for all the obvious reasons already stated. but i watched leClerc in GP2, now F2, when on several occasions the lad had to come through the field. every time i saw him race regardless of who was behind or who was in front it was the same: the kid is an unemotional craftsman with the skill of Senna.
so i had to vote idk.
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