M3/M4 in snow?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 2thdr

Sidetrack: How many people are comfortable with the ethanol in Petro's Ultra 94? I used to use Petro Supreme in my e46 exclusively, but then switched to Shell Vmax Gold because it has no ethanol.

Interesting point, I did not even know that Petro-Canada now has ethanol in their fuel. I checked on Petro's site, and it is confirmed that all their fuels could contain up to 10% ethanol.

The car still performs flawlessly with Petro-Canada 94, so I will stick to it.

[BimmerBoomer]

I drove fourteen winters in M3s (E36, E46, E92). Always on Sottozeros or Pilot Alpins - as far back as I can recall. The M3s did well until the end of March this year. I was driving down a country road after photographing some snowy owls and drove over some dirty snow in the road. Except there was a chunk of ice in there that jumped up and split my transmission pan. DCT fluid all over the road. The transmission locked so CAA couldn't load it on the flatbed. (And by the way, the dealer couldn't unlock it either.) When the dealer got it back together I traded it in on the 435i xDrive.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by signes

Yes! Ran Nokian Hakka R's for the last 6 winters. Over 25,000 miles. Couldn't believe one set lasted so long. The grip on snow and ice is amazing.

This. I've had all kinds of snow tires for Minnesota driving (last were vredestein wintrac exteme)... Don't buy anything other than nokian. Drburton said it all right.. You'll have no problems other than when you shouldn't be out anyway

[bdoooh]

I dunno if any of you have been shopping for winter wheels yet.. but yesterday I found a set of '08 535i 18s that I picked up off eBay for $500 shipped. Gotta find snows for them. Looking at the calculator they in theory should fit just fine.. Maybe MAYBE a 5mm spacer in the rear is needed since it says there's a 3mm less inner clearance but perhaps it'll be fine..

What is everyone else doing for snow wheels?

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer

I drove fourteen winters in M3s (E36, E46, E92). Always on Sottozeros or Pilot Alpins - as far back as I can recall. The M3s did well until the end of March this year. I was driving down a country road after photographing some snowy owls and drove over some dirty snow in the road. Except there was a chunk of ice in there that jumped up and split my transmission pan. DCT fluid all over the road. The transmission locked so CAA couldn't load it on the flatbed. (And by the way, the dealer couldn't unlock it either.) When the dealer got it back together I traded it in on the 435i xDrive.

No doubt, if you put snow tires on that 435 xDrive it will perform better in the snow, more so the hillier it gets.

Last year I went from a RWD E60 545 with PA2s in the winter to an AWD F10 535 with all-seasons. I live in Castle Pines, and it's pretty hilly. I can get up a couple hills in the F10 that the E60 struggled with on an icy road - but in every other situation the E60 with snow tires felt more stable in the snow than the F10 does.

The issue, with BMW, is that they make us pay on these AWD cars in the form of softer suspensions and higher ride height, neither of which I think anyone asked for. You can probably address this with a Dinan or BMW M-Performance suspension added to the car, but it might be hard to do those things in a lease, and before long you get into M4 price territory. I will probably look into that anyway.

The question here is, if a guy wants an M4, will he be able to get away with owning one in Colorado running it on snows in the winter. My experience here with my E60 in Castle Pines says yes, absolutely. But maybe only going around Denver and on highways. I'm not sure I would feel too comfortable going up the hill, where the clearance everyone is talking about would become an issue more often.

[BimmerBoomer]

But I actually wanted some extra ride height, just not this much. Right now my ground clearance is about 145mm versus 120mm with the sport suspension. The Dinan springs, when they come, will likely lower the car to 125mm - just about right. I think my E92 M3 was about 115mm which is too low, but my E46 M3 was no better (at least at the air dam). The F82 is 120mm which might be okay. However, before I look at an M4 I want to see one on a hoist so that I can look at the DCT pan. The problem with the country roads around here is chunks of ice, debris etc..

[BimmerQuest]

OP here...asleep at the wheel.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in - it should be helpful to future M owners.

Originally Posted by WJGreer

No doubt, if you put snow tires on that 435 xDrive it will perform better in the snow, more so the hillier it gets.

Last year I went from a RWD E60 545 with PA2s in the winter to an AWD F10 535 with all-seasons. I live in Castle Pines, and it's pretty hilly. I can get up a couple hills in the F10 that the E60 struggled with on an icy road - but in every other situation the E60 with snow tires felt more stable in the snow than the F10 does.

The issue, with BMW, is that they make us pay on these AWD cars in the form of softer suspensions and higher ride height, neither of which I think anyone asked for. You can probably address this with a Dinan or BMW M-Performance suspension added to the car, but it might be hard to do those things in a lease, and before long you get into M4 price territory. I will probably look into that anyway.

The question here is, if a guy wants an M4, will he be able to get away with owning one in Colorado running it on snows in the winter. My experience here with my E60 in Castle Pines says yes, absolutely. But maybe only going around Denver and on highways. I'm not sure I would feel too comfortable going up the hill, where the clearance everyone is talking about would become an issue more often.

I'm not too far from you, same latitude just up against the foothills. It's those hills that present the challenge, especially because we normally get about 30% more accumulation than everything else in metro Denver.

My order was unloaded from the truck today. I decided to go with a 335i xDrive M Sport w/MPPK and Adaptive M Suspension (via DHP). I might do the Dinan Shockware software, then after driving a while decide if I want the springs.

It's no M car, but for now it will put a grin on my face and that's what it's all about...right?

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by BimmerQuest

OP here...asleep at the wheel.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in - it should be helpful to future M owners.



I'm not too far from you, same latitude just up against the foothills. It's those hills that present the challenge, especially because we normally get about 30% more accumulation than everything else in metro Denver.

My order was unloaded from the truck today. I decided to go with a 335i xDrive M Sport w/MPPK and Adaptive M Suspension (via DHP). I might do the Dinan Shockware software, then after driving a while decide if I want the springs.

It's no M car, but for now it will put a grin on my face and that's what it's all about...right?

That really is a car that should provide more performance than 95% of the cars you'll see, and definitely more than you'll be able to use. Enjoy it!

If you do go with the Shockware software, let us know what you think of it.

[MRV99]

Originally Posted by WJGreer

No doubt, if you put snow tires on that 435 xDrive it will perform better in the snow, more so the hillier it gets.

Last year I went from a RWD E60 545 with PA2s in the winter to an AWD F10 535 with all-seasons. I live in Castle Pines, and it's pretty hilly. I can get up a couple hills in the F10 that the E60 struggled with on an icy road - but in every other situation the E60 with snow tires felt more stable in the snow than the F10 does.

The issue, with BMW, is that they make us pay on these AWD cars in the form of softer suspensions and higher ride height, neither of which I think anyone asked for. You can probably address this with a Dinan or BMW M-Performance suspension added to the car, but it might be hard to do those things in a lease, and before long you get into M4 price territory. I will probably look into that anyway.

The question here is, if a guy wants an M4, will he be able to get away with owning one in Colorado running it on snows in the winter. My experience here with my E60 in Castle Pines says yes, absolutely. But maybe only going around Denver and on highways. I'm not sure I would feel too comfortable going up the hill, where the clearance everyone is talking about would become an issue more often.

One real advantage the ///M car has over your e60 is the LSD. You will get much better traction with both rears driving instead of just one in the E60. I drove 8 winters in a 545 and 550 and there is a huge traction difference with the LSD. Pls I had PA2 and PA3 on my e60 like you did and I thing there are better winters available for the M3

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by MRV99

One real advantage the ///M car has over your e60 is the LSD. You will get much better traction with both rears driving instead of just one in the E60. I drove 8 winters in a 545 and 550 and there is a huge traction difference with the LSD. Pls I had PA2 and PA3 on my e60 like you did and I thing there are better winters available for the M3

I never knew the 550 had a LSD. Interesting.

My position is that an M3/M4 with snows is fine in the winter as long as the driver knows what he is doing. Physics are a bitch though, and it is really hard to push a heavy object up an icy, steep incline from the rear. So, the more hills a person deals with, the more issue it would be.

I made it work fine with my 545, and I used to go to the grocery store parking lot at night after a snowstorm to do doughnuts and figure out the car's limits. With snow tires, traction control, and the other safety technology the car had even as a 2005 model, the stability was impressive. On a flat surface.

[rollopezjr]

Hi I am new to the bimmerpost. I am approaching my 40th birthday and my wife and I have decided its time for me to get a little something for myself We love BMW have had about 6 cars thus far but my dream car has always been the M3. Until now its always been the car I could not swallow spending close to $1,000 a month on a lease payment well now that has changed and I have been given the green light. My only concern is that this will be my everyday car here in New Jersey where this past winter was pretty bad when it came to snow and I have about a 12 mile commute to work everyday which is mostly highways so I am pretty sure the roads will always be taken care of before I leave for the office. My question is can the M3 be an everyday car here in NJ? Any help with this would be much appreciated.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by rollopezjr

Hi I am new to the bimmerpost. I am approaching my 40th birthday and my wife and I have decided its time for me to get a little something for myself We love BMW have had about 6 cars thus far but my dream car has always been the M3. Until now its always been the car I could not swallow spending close to $1,000 a month on a lease payment well now that has changed and I have been given the green light. My only concern is that this will be my everyday car here in New Jersey where this past winter was pretty bad when it came to snow and I have about a 12 mile commute to work everyday which is mostly highways so I am pretty sure the roads will always be taken care of before I leave for the office. My question is can the M3 be an everyday car here in NJ? Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Welcome aboard

There are a number of people from NJ and even snowier places on this forum. Like anything online you will find a variety of opinions but I think the general wisdom is:

- an RWD M3 can be totally fine in the winter; but
- you have to be smart about how you drive it.

First, get winter tires. All seasons won't do, actual winter tires. You can get either performance winters (Michelin PSS) or more hard core winter tires (Nokian, Michelin X-Ice, etc). Which one you choose depends on need. If you will need to drive this car every day no matter what, get more hard core tires. If you can leave it in the garage on a particularly hellish day, maybe more performance so you can enjoy it a bit more when the roads are better.

Second, drive like it is winter, not summer. If it is cold or icy or snowy do not think that you can punch the gas from a stand still and expect traction. Learn how to feather the gas and drive gently in rough conditions. If things are bad enough, throw some sandbags in the trunk over the rear axel to give you a bit more winter traction.

Speaking personally, where I live we can get a lot of snow, but it can also all melt in a day and most driving days in the winter are on dry pavement or pavement that is wet (melted snow from salt, etc). I don't need to drive every day (and most days I don't drive) so I went with Michelin PSS. Had zero problems, even on some iffy days. I know people here who had much harder winters and got more hard core tires who also did fine.

Good luck.

[Matt_B]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Welcome aboard

There are a number of people from NJ and even snowier places on this forum. Like anything online you will find a variety of opinions but I think the general wisdom is:

- an RWD M3 can be totally fine in the winter; but
- you have to be smart about how you drive it.

First, get winter tires. All seasons won't do, actual winter tires. You can get either performance winters (Michelin PSS) or more hard core winter tires (Nokian, Michelin X-Ice, etc). Which one you choose depends on need. If you will need to drive this car every day no matter what, get more hard core tires. If you can leave it in the garage on a particularly hellish day, maybe more performance so you can enjoy it a bit more when the roads are better.

Second, drive like it is winter, not summer. If it is cold or icy or snowy do not think that you can punch the gas from a stand still and expect traction. Learn how to feather the gas and drive gently in rough conditions. If things are bad enough, throw some sandbags in the trunk over the rear axel to give you a bit more winter traction.

Speaking personally, where I live we can get a lot of snow, but it can also all melt in a day and most driving days in the winter are on dry pavement or pavement that is wet (melted snow from salt, etc). I don't need to drive every day (and most days I don't drive) so I went with Michelin PSS. Had zero problems, even on some iffy days. I know people here who had much harder winters and got more hard core tires who also did fine.

Good luck.

Michelin PSS as in Pilot Super Sports? Those are our stock summer tires unless they make a winter variant I don't know about.

I think you meant Pilot Alpin?

[M3ANOXGREEN]

Originally Posted by Matt_B

Michelin PSS as in Pilot Super Sports? Those are our stock summer tires unless they make a winter variant I don't know about.

I think you meant Pilot Alpin?

I would assume Pilot Alpin.. if hes rocking PSS in winter he has a death wish..

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Matt_B

Michelin PSS as in Pilot Super Sports? Those are our stock summer tires unless they make a winter variant I don't know about.

I think you meant Pilot Alpin?

Originally Posted by M3ANOXGREEN

I would assume Pilot Alpin.. if hes rocking PSS in winter he has a death wish..

oh.

man.

wow.

Awesomeness.

yes, what they said.

Michelin PA4s.

that said, I am not going to change that original post because it is a pretty great fuckup.

[S65V8]

Someone literally told me one time Summer Tires are the best for winter because the rubber is soft enough that it doesn't freeze in the winter... I was like "UMMMM, NO! PSYCHO". lol. It's crazy what some people just believe without doing any research on.

[M3ANOXGREEN]

Originally Posted by SROC5

Someone literally told me one time Summer Tires are the best for winter because the rubber is soft enough that it doesn't freeze in the winter... I was like "UMMMM, NO! PSYCHO". lol. It's crazy what some people just believe without doing any research on.

You should have told them drinking anti-freeze helps them stay warm in the winter too....