[Savoy2001]

I will tell you this if this car is so heavy as this and only adds 100 hp I will just pick up a super low mileage f90. Or maybe I’ll just order a really nice ct5V BW. Those are really nice too and at least for now a real enthusiast car.

[Greer]

Originally Posted by AHall

BMW will likely release variants having more power after the base car is released.

This I bet is true.

[CarlosM4]

Well I hope BMW keeps track of the foruns, because reaction has been pretty wild.

What a joke. A slower, heavier and uglier M5. Well done to Greta and the Eco People.

I was expecting BMW M to have common sense seeing the great failure that the Panny Turbo S E-Hybrid, and AMG E-Performance models were.

Instead they go with the same failed philosophy:
Too slow & heavy to compete with the EVs (Taycan Turbo S, Lucid Air, Tesla Model S Plaid)

Too heavy to be fun compared to the ICE cars (including the previous M5)

Too heavy and complicated and with a V8 - completely inefficient on the EV/Hybrid side of the equation.

Massive duck and piece of shit. What a shame.

Given that I also drove the S 63 AMG E-Performance and the interaction of ICE engine, gearbox and electric power was rubbish, I expect the M5 G90 to be the same.

The worse part. Adding 1,111 pounds and only 100hp. What a fucking joke. This thing will be so much slower than the F90 M5.

[AHall]

I think we have to wait and see the complete picture. From what I can make out, the front does not look bad to me. I am surprised the upper grill is solid plastic given the need for maximum air flow. The back is a bit “clunky” based on the blue car shown in the spy picture. I doubt the car will be slow by any means. The car seemed to have limited to no body roll in the videos I have seen. So perhaps all is not lost.

[crypto]

Has BMW ever released an M car that’s slower than the previous generation? I mean I get the HP vs weight increase math but also I think we have to wait and see how it performs.

[DarkishM5C]

Them electric motors are no joke for power. I think the G90 will be faster when using both EV and ICE together. But once that battery is depleted, I think it will be slower than the F90. We will have to wait and see how it performs.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by crypto

Has BMW ever released an M car that’s slower than the previous generation? I mean I get the HP vs weight increase math but also I think we have to wait and see how it performs.

They did with the G82 vs F82 MT versions. But that is a rare exception.

Nonetheless, given the figures, there is no way the G90 will beat the F90, unless power and weight is severely understated (which would make sense, why the hell lower the V8 output to 577hp?)

And this will also will be slower on track. There is no way they can solve 1,111 pounds, with RWS or active sway bars (the only two things the M5 F90 did not have). The M5 F90 has awesome suspension geometry, traction and steering for track. Difficult to improve on that.

I don't see any scenario where the G90 will beat it, with the published figures.

[Neptune7]

My guess is that the G90 will recalibrate expectations of weight given the radically new powertrain, with future generations building a new progression of weight savings over the G90. The rear axle steer should help with track performance, but I very much doubt the car will feel like a (vastly lighter) ICE M5, no matter what happens under the covers.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by crypto

Has BMW ever released an M car that’s slower than the previous generation? I mean I get the HP vs weight increase math but also I think we have to wait and see how it performs.

Unfortunately it did. Screenshot taken from other thread that doesn’t seem to be favorable to the newest M5.

[M5VanHalen]

Originally Posted by Greer

Wow here it is in plain English:

The new BMW M5 is said to weigh a colossal 2,435 kilograms (5,368 pounds). Almost 1000 pounds heavier than the F90 M5. Surely that can't be right?

Sounds like my 2023 F90 M5 is going to be the last great M5. That is great for the future value of these F90s.

[M5 London]

Originally Posted by crypto

Has BMW ever released an M car that’s slower than the previous generation? I mean I get the HP vs weight increase math but also I think we have to wait and see how it performs.

Exactly...the instant torque fill of the electric motor will eliminate any turbo lag for starters (and offer instant throttle response too), such that stock for stock the F90 will not be keeping up with the new one at all. Straight line, the G90 will be long gone.

I suspect that the peak electric and peak ice outputs are not going to occur at the same time, hence the peak quoted 718hp. But rest assured the combination of both will make a mockery of the quoted peak combined number, in terms of feel and performance numbers.

It's going to be heavy for sure....if anyone doesn't like the new one, buy the Mercedes or Audi equivalent LOL. The new M5 will trounce the competion in all dynamic quantums.

[AP]

It quite a I turn
When the g30 came out , bmw made quite a deal about it being 100kg lighter than it’s predecessor.(depending upon model)
So weighing more complete goes against that.
Well t
Let’s see how the reviewers rate it when they get a chance to drive it soon.

What are bmw doing these days, talk about losing their way…..

[pmsteinm]

You guys should all become F1 fans. Then you can pretend you are in an F1 car harvesting energy so you can use your battery to overtake.

And you might experience the same reliability F1 did back when that tech debuted.

I hope eventually the G90 will be considered better than the F90. Every time a new M5 came out people would say the previous one was better. Then they would see the new one was an improvement despite being bigger, or heavier, or no manual, or forced induction, or AWD, etc. There is one difference this time though. The hybrid power train is a government induced virtue signal. All those other techs were selected by the market. That makes me worry the G90 won't keep the trend alive.

[Holset]

Originally Posted by beaups

“ The twin-turbo 4.4-liter gasoline engine is said to be good for 577 hp and 750 Nm (553 lb-ft) whereas the electric motor is rated at 194 hp and 280 Nm (207 lb-ft).”

Wouldn’t that be 771hp? Seems more plausible as it would reduce the lb/hp to 6.96. Either way I’m glad I picked up a 23 M5C before it got huge(r).

The gas engine and electric motors don’t produce peak horsepower at the same rpm thats often the case with hybrids.

Anyway the cars seems like a disappointment but im not surprised.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by pmsteinm

You guys should all become F1 fans. Then you can pretend you are in an F1 car harvesting energy so you can use your battery to overtake.

And you might experience the same reliability F1 did back when that tech debuted.

I hope eventually the G90 will be considered better than the F90. Every time a new M5 came out people would say the previous one was better. Then they would see the new one was an improvement despite being bigger, or heavier, or no manual, or forced induction, or AWD, etc. There is one difference this time though. The hybrid power train is a government induced virtue signal. All those other techs were selected by the market. That makes me worry the G90 won't keep the trend alive.

I seriously doubt it though. I thought the F10 was shite, at first, and that opinion has not changed.

The F90, general consensus by everyone was that it would be massively superior to the F10 when it came out, and as it turns out, that turned out to be quite true (although it lost the M-DCT). The E60 too, consensus was that it was a massive step up over the E39, although it lost the MT transmission.

Every iteration it went on a direction that it was further from the enthusiast likes, but nonetheless, none changed the recipe as much as the Hybrid POS

[Kponti]

Maybe this is the base and the Competition will have the 600/625 BHP ICE??

[DavidXJ]

It's largely irrelevant how incrementally faster this new gen elephant is going to be. In real-world situations, where it matters most (let's be honest, unless you have the wherewithal to do track days every weekend), the F90 is going to feel infinitely more capable and nimble through your favourite twisty backroad. Of course the G90 might shave a few fractions of a second off a launch; but for those of us in the EU at least, it's also going to sound utterly muted, with the latest emissions and sound regs together making a travesty of the fact that it actually has 8 cylinders under the hood.

Now, if hypothetical 0-60 times are your bag, then none of that will matter. But for me, I'm content to hang on to a car with a proper engine note, one of the lightest curb weights of any contemporary super saloon (cf E63/RS6), a handsome front end, and last but not least some semblance of a proper binnacle.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by DavidXJ

It's largely irrelevant how incrementally faster this new gen elephant is going to be. In real-world situations, where it matters most (let's be honest, unless you have the wherewithal to do track days every weekend), the F90 is going to feel infinitely more capable and nimble through your favourite twisty backroad. Of course the G90 might shave a few fractions of a second off a launch; but for those of us in the EU at least, it's also going to sound utterly muted, with the latest emissions and sound regs together making a travesty of the fact that it actually has 8 cylinders under the hood.

Now, if hypothetical 0-60 times are your bag, then none of that will matter. But for me, I'm content to hang on to a car with a proper engine note, one of the lightest curb weights of any contemporary super saloon (cf E63/RS6), a handsome front end, and last but not least some semblance of a proper binnacle.

Yep. Spot on. Best comment I saw on the matter thus far.

Its a shame, but the W213 E 63 AMG S and the M5 F90 are the last great supersedans (maybe the RS7 Performance C8 as well). Its the end of an era. We got to enjoy it happily.

Now its time to either move to another brand or keep one of these "old" beasts on the garage.

[shawnhayes]

I'm on deck for a G99, but given the chance I'd get an i5 touring, but I'm not going to get that luxury.

I liked the XM, I just didn't $162,000 like the XM. The powertrain is solid, and the tuning is good.

The reason I'll be an early adopter (otherwise I'd wait for the LCI G99) is that I don't know how long they will market them here. They pulled the F31 after a couple of years of slow sales. Now they are the most difficult and valuable F30 variants that are common.

Shawn

[Elanderholm]

If the new m5 is that heavy it’s over for me. I’ve owned a f10 and f90 competition but this makes no sense. Hopefully lucid is still around in a year or two.

Watch the hot lap with the lucid. It’s already superior in every way than what bmw will be producing in the new m5.

[warpeacelove]

Mates, I will have to pass on this model with a hard Decline!

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by Elanderholm

If the new m5 is that heavy it’s over for me. I’ve owned a f10 and f90 competition but this makes no sense. Hopefully lucid is still around in a year or two.

Watch the hot lap with the lucid. It’s already superior in every way than what bmw will be producing in the new m5.

Ive also owned a f10 and f90 comp. currently. It's interesting to me the different view points based on the Lucid hot lap.... You see it as already far superior to what BMW WILL be producing, meaning we've yet to see all the tests and specifics of the new M5.

Ill agree I have some reservations and concerns but im definitely not ruling it out yet. Why? Well for the same reason you cited above, just opposing view of it....

I see the hot lap in the Lucid as promising for the new M5... If a young car company that doesn't have the racing heritage BMW has can make that equally fat pig drive decent around a track and have some record breaking or near record breaking speeds, then I see potential from BMW. Sure the claims of 718 hp ( "leaked" information?) on the surface are disappointing, but we don't even know the real numbers yet. Yes, the Lucid has 1200hp on tap.. but they seemed to think it handled well also, and was able to get around pretty well for its size. They of course had to make braking adjustments and get used to the power, but with that, I see potential in the new M5. If Lucid can make that pig do well around the track, I find it hard to believe BMW wont be able to. I mean it did 2:44 which is pretty damn good company to be in on that track if you look at the top 25 times. Sure I doubt the M5 will be as fast , but it also doesnt have 1200 hp, but doesnt mean it wont still be damn fast around that track. F90 Comp did 2:54 flat, and the BMW that everyone usually cites as the better handling option over the F90, is the G80 comp x-drive, and it did 2:53.5. If you take the Lucid 5300 weight and can achieve 2:44, have to imagine the M5 can be in the mix also, not 2:44 with out massive power gains, but I don't think current M3 or M5 times are out of the question , and maybe even a little better as we dont know yet the real weight and power, and how well the power will be delivered.

I mean in the same video we see they tested a X5M also. X5M is 5500 lbs, and 617 hp. it was able to squeak out a 2:58.. And thats faster than a lot of pretty fast cars known for their track times and handling .... such as : Civic Type R, C6 Z06 Corvette, new supra, 2019 M2 Comp. to name a few.... and its a 5500 SUV with 1/2 the power of the Lucid.

But... thats assuming all these leaked numbers are correct. Am I the only one who thinks this "leak" could be partially shenanigans? BMW is the king of underrating the power on M cars, and overstating their weight. SO im hopeful maybe thats the case. And as usual there will be more variants like a comp, red label, CS (lol) who knows what theyll call them, but im sure there is more to this story than 718hp and 5300 lbs. Time will tell.

I guess my biggest point is, saying a 5300lb M car will never be able to compete is silly, when a current 5500lb M SUV with less power can compete as it sits right now. Especially when we haven't seen tests or real hard facts about the M5 right yet.