[Kponti]

Manufacturer recommended oils are based on emission requirements and gas mileage before performance considerations are even factored in.

BMW only has to warranty your engine for 50k miles!

Even using shitty dino oils, your engine will most likely survive well past that with the right additives.
Oil weight is only good for flow under certain weather conditions, meaning if you live in predominantly cold or hot weather, won't be the absolute best, the recommendations are a compromise hence the reason the recommendations change often.

Recommended brands and certifications usually have to do with whether the oil brand bothered to play ball with a particular engine maker

I have taken apart V8s that have had $0.99 oils, changed every 3-5k.miles at over 100k miles looking new with minimal to no cylinder wear.
Frequency of changes is king!

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by California209

Has to be the dumbest response of all time.
BMW test the oil at a 100C whats that work out to in F
The fact is yes it would be suitable but you are also talking about less than .001% of the population.
0w-30 or 5w-30 will be fine!

Thank you for wasting all our times and reving an 18 month old thread. There is an oil section for a reason. Fml. Is it 2023 yet. Do people get this app for Christmas?

[pbonsalb]

BMW dropped its CPO warranty from 2 extra years to 1 extra year for good reasons — they do the barest minimum to maintain the cars. They have been reducing their maintenance plans for years. Lifetime transmission fluid. Oil changes once per year (they can’t spec summer and winter weights since they would have to change the oil twice as much in areas with winter).

Don’t scare away the new guys. The tweet groups like Facebook are already sucking the life out of forums. There is no stored knowledge to research in instagram and Facebook, the same questions get asked every week, and few provide enough detail for their posts to be useful. If it’s the way of the future, it’s a pretty superficial future.

[Danny D]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

BMW dropped its CPO warranty from 2 extra years to 1 extra year for good reasons — they do the barest minimum to maintain the cars. They have been reducing their maintenance plans for years. Lifetime transmission fluid. Oil changes once per year (they can’t spec summer and winter weights since they would have to change the oil twice as much in areas with winter).

Don’t scare away the new guys. The tweet groups like Facebook are already sucking the life out of forums. There is no stored knowledge to research in instagram and Facebook, the same questions get asked every week, and few provide enough detail for their posts to be useful. If it’s the way of the future, it’s a pretty superficial future.

Well said.

[916_M5]

Originally Posted by Maverik259

I think people worry about the "perfect" oil a bit too much. There is no one "right" answer. Proven by the simple fact BMW changes the "approved" oil every couple years. Mid cycle. Most of it is to meet efficiency regulations anyway.

Pick a good quality oil and choose the weight based on where you live (environmental). If the manual says 0w-30 then adjust from there. Simple as that. No need for 50 separate threads discussing the same question.

This is the perfect response ^^^ OP.

Key: "Pick a good quality oil and choose the weight based on where you live (environmental)." - good call Maverik259

On that note, I live in Northern CA and i use Motul 5W40. I immediately noticed how much quieter the engine runs now. Wish I switched over soon.

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by 916_M5

This is the perfect response ^^^ OP.

Key: "Pick a good quality oil and choose the weight based on where you live (environmental)." - good call Maverik259

On that note, I live in Northern CA and i use Motul 5W40. I immediately noticed how much quieter the engine runs now. Wish I switched over soon.

I may try this weight on my next in between oil service. Due for the dealer next month. I’ve been running 5w-30 in the summer/fall

[Rickala]

Anyone ever consider that the rod bearing failures may be related to the 0w30 oil not having enough film strength? Bearing clearances are tight and some are a little concerned about using 5w40, but I have been using that oil for many years on Audi and have had great results. If you don't live in sub zero climates I think it's the best choice.

There is little doubt the lighter weight oils BMW says to use in the USA is related to the CAFE standards. The same exact engines in Europe allow 5w40 in the manual. So....

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Right. Don’t worry whether your oil is like molasses when you start the motor in -20F and takes 10 minutes to warm up as long as eventually it gets to 212F. Don’t worry of it does not get hot enough to burn off contaminants in short city driving. And don’t worry if it is 120F in the desert and your oil went past 212F and is on its way to 300F. Don’t worry if it breaks down faster when subjected to hotter operating temperatures.

But yes, I agree that BMW compromised the oil spec for the average person … and maximum fuel economy.

This is a little bit of "overthinking" it too.

At operating temperature, the kinematic viscosity of 0w-30 is 12.18 mm2/sec, and 5W-40 is 12.8 mm@/sec.

We're arguming about very small differences in viscosity.

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

I am not sure that spec is the only relevant spec in comparing 2 oil weights. I do agree there is probably not much difference that batters among oils in the 0W30 to 5W40 range in specs that are suitable for these motors. Whatever BMW put is as factory fill was, like many parts it specs, a compromise based on a variety of factors. I do not believe for a second that it was the absolute best oil for the motor under every possible set of circumstances. I suspect the thin weight spec was largely based on it offering better fuel economy while being adequate for most use.

Given that some of these motors are now 5 years old and there are very few reports of problems, it seems like whatever BMW put in them and the dealers continue to put in them works fine. You have tracked your cars and found that the factory spec oil works fine even under extreme conditions. To me that suggests it is indeed good enough.

But that does not mean that another 0W30 or 5W40 or 0W40 or 5W40 would not do just as well. I would stick to one of those grades and a spec that is one of BMW’s recent specs for the aluminum V8 turbo motors. I don’t think for example that the fuel economy version of the oil spec if a necessity -- I’d have to check but I think it is FE or FF.

[Rickala]

The oil specs change like the wind. I work on a variety of Euro cars at my shop. 5W-40 is prevalent with almost all direct injected engines, with the exception of BMW. Why, I just don't know.

I recently purchased a 2021 M5 Comp with 12,000 miles on the clock. It is my first BMW. I am an Audi specialist and long time owner, and this was a walk to the dark side for me. A betrayal .. Let's just say I have become disenchanted with the newer Audis build quality.

While I always use the OE spec oil for my customers cars, for myself, I usually experiment. When reading about the bearing failures on some of these S63 engines, it makes me wonder what the deal is.. Audis we've modified, making literally double their rated torque, never have any bearing issues, as long as knock is kept down. We use a VW spec 505 Euro 5w-40 almost on all of them.

So while its not an advocation on my part to use a 5w-40 , I think that the viscosity cannot be overlooked as a possible cause of premature bearing wear. I also use BG MOA additive, as I've seen with my own eyes the merit of that product. IMO its the most impressive additive I've ever used.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I am not sure that spec is the only relevant spec in comparing 2 oil weights. I do agree there is probably not much difference that batters among oils in the 0W30 to 5W40 range in specs that are suitable for these motors.

But it's what EVERYONE complains about. The "anecdotal" stuff I've seen so far....(in this thread and others)
It looks thinner than water...
Can't be thick enough to protect the bearings...
I'm not putting that thin stuff chosen for MPG into my car...

So you're right. It's not the only relevant spec. But it's the ONLY one most people talk about. Somebody wants to start to bring up VI, HTHS, sulfated ash content, bring it. But REALLY everybody only brings up "can't be thick enough, cause it was chosen for low friction and higher MPG". Really. 12.18 vs. 12.8 - I'm glad that no one drastically changes their viscosity that much, but I doubt they really know how little they're addressing what they REALLY need to talk about if they cared. Additive package. HTHS durability. Flash point. Pour point. Vapor pressure. THESE are the things that are really meaningful for long term protection. And some of them are REALLY hard to measure.

I just think it becomes a moot point very quickly. Less "open minded" owner sites become mudslinging fests and get closed threads for these. It becomes people arguing about how they FEEL, not real objective data.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Rickala

We use a VW spec 505

The most important thing you said in that quote. VW is very fastidious when it comes to oil meeting requirements. Some companies meet them, most don't. Regardless of weight.

Shawn

[Rickala]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

The most important thing you said in that quote. VW is very fastidious when it comes to oil meeting requirements. Some companies meet them, most don't. Regardless of weight.

Shawn

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

I'm glad that no one drastically changes their viscosity that much, but I doubt they really know how little they're addressing what they REALLY need to talk about if they cared. Additive package. HTHS durability. Flash point. Pour point. Vapor pressure. THESE are the things that are really meaningful for long term protection. And some of them are REALLY hard to measure.

Shawn

Well Shawn, we can all agree that the choice of oil additives is important! But yea, probably not much difference in 0w vs 5w in the US as far as suitability. The 30w vs 40w is the difference where it really counts IMO. Most engines thrive on 5w40. Will they get slightly less fuel economy that 0w-30? Mehh, who cares at this level? EPA? I only care about protection, and these motors have a lot of heat added to the oil from the turbos and cats.

As far as additives beyond the oil itself, I don't work for BG, but let me tell you, I've done rebuilds on track engines that are usually supposed to need all sorts of things replaced after just several runs, that I believe the BG MOA doubled the lifespan on. Rings, bearings, etc... I've seen highly modified cars, tuned early in their lives, mainly Audi and VW with 150,000 miles on them still running strong. When I bought this car, the first thing I did was change the oil and added two cans of it as one is good for 5-6 liters of oil. The oil was just changed too, but I wanted that extra protection and I didn't want to suck out 22 ounces of oil changed by an Indy shop in another state. Look up the videos about MOA.

[Rickala]

Originally Posted by Kponti

Manufacturer recommended oils are based on emission requirements and gas mileage before performance considerations are even factored in.

BMW only has to warranty your engine for 50k miles!

Even using shitty dino oils, your engine will most likely survive well past that with the right additives.
Oil weight is only good for flow under certain weather conditions, meaning if you live in predominantly cold or hot weather, won't be the absolute best, the recommendations are a compromise hence the reason the recommendations change often.

Recommended brands and certifications usually have to do with whether the oil brand bothered to play ball with a particular engine maker

I have taken apart V8s that have had $0.99 oils, changed every 3-5k.miles at over 100k miles looking new with minimal to no cylinder wear.
Frequency of changes is king!

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Kponti

I have taken apart V8s that have had $0.99 oils, changed every 3-5k.miles at over 100k miles looking new with minimal to no cylinder wear.
Frequency of changes is king!

Any additive use, or just frequent changes?

Shawn

[PDOT]

Here is the oil report I received back today. I thought you guys might want a look. This is after 6 track days, four sessions per day.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by AngryInch

The engine is spec'd for 30 weight at running temp, those are both different weights of oil at temp. Why are you not concerned with changing the viscosity at running temp vs what is called for? Curious your thoughts on this.

Because BMW does not care about engine longevity, but only for the minimum protection for the duration of the warranty.

BMW's latest LL01FE (FE stands for fuel economy) barely achieves HTHS of 3.0, as opposed to the old BMW's 5w30, with HTHS of 3.5. But BMW only sells the 0w30 now solely to meet fleet emissions. There's a reason why Porsche A40 (i.e. 24 hours in Nordschleife under race conditions) does not approve any oil below HTHS of 3.7.

S63's engine failure due to the rod bearing seizures are also well documented, and common remedies for this are 5W40 or even 5W50. You should also consider rod bearings as wear items, for M engines have traditionally had rod bearing wear issues, and S63 is no different.

Originally Posted by PDOT

Here is the oil report I received back today. I thought you guys might want a look. This is after 6 track days, four sessions per day.

I would pay closer attention to the copper readings as it is the last layer of the journal bearings. Recent BMWs use bi-layer tin-aluminum journal bearings as opposed to the tri-layer copper-lead bearings, which means there's one less protective layer before there's metal-to-metal contact. Ideally you would want 0-1ppm of copper shavings from a 2000 mile OCI.

[damianwo]

I use this stuff. 12 liters and oil filter from Northside Imports in Lincolnwood, IL for $130.