04-29-2016, 01:50 AM | #265 | |
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I am surprised BMW didn't use you as their test driver, you could do 7:39 while not even familiar with track. If you drive the M4 GTS, I bet you can crack 7:20. I am a reasonable man, I don't mind proven wrong, but despite all the technical jargons you threw out there, I am still not seeing any hard evidence to support your claims. I hope at least some magazines will get their hands on the 760 and we will see if it can trap 125+. Last edited by Phatcat; 04-29-2016 at 02:07 AM.. |
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04-29-2016, 03:17 PM | #266 | ||
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BMW time of 7:55 is with a standard car. No CP, No M Driver's Pack. The statement CP is 10 sec faster is just with CP. AMS tests are consistent and substantiate the claim. They're just a bit slower over all. The first F10 M5 time of 8:05 was with an MDP equipped car. The M5 CP also had MDP and did 7:54 (11 sec faster). Horst also had 2 passengers in the car on both occasions (he always has at least one). He doesn't push hard in the more complex sections nor can he drive certain sections as quickly as possible if he wanted to. You claim to be reasonable but want to hit back with childish statements. No I wouldn't do a 7:20 in an M4 GTS, nor would I ever expressly claim or imply I could. The 7:28 lap was about spot on. There isn't very much more to get from it; .5sec maybe at the most. I in fact frequently do evaluative driving for several manufacturers including BMW. These sessions are not to see how fast I can do a lap, but in the case of BMW, to analyze the behavior of components my company provides. Pushing a car to the edge for the sake of time saving isn't necessary. I do push them, to and past their limits, but that requires a margin of safety to recover. When evaluating components that are both functional and aesthetic, it helps to cut some people out of the process. I can go straight from the car to the computer, make revisions to the CAD/CAM files, and send those along with my notes to design and engineering so they can make any needed additional revisions, sign off, rapid prototype, send the revised components over, and typically only a final evaluation session is needed. Rarely do we encounter multiple revisions. It's really too soon for debating. It's a time to be intrigued and look forward to some astonishing feats of engineering. The days of widespread, traditional, carnal emotion, are numbered and these may be some of the very last cars to provide it. |
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04-30-2016, 05:54 AM | #267 | |||
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And how do you know BMW's 7:55 time doesn't have M driver's package? BMW never said so, and why would any manufacturer use a speed limited car to set the ring time? You are not even making any sense. But I do agree with you on one thing, the days of these types of cars are numbered. |
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04-30-2016, 05:43 PM | #268 | ||||
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05-02-2016, 01:27 AM | #269 | |||||
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You are right though, no point in continuing this discussion. Besides throwing out technical mumbo jumbo, you have nothing to prove your case, where's the proof that BMW used speed limited M5 to set the ring time? Where? |
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05-04-2016, 03:03 AM | #271 |
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A very crude 1st render on how the M5 bumper might look like based on my G30 M sport render...
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05-06-2016, 01:56 PM | #272 | |
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Genuinely asking you the question, not trolling. I am an engineer so feel free to delve into the geeky stuff. |
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05-06-2016, 03:30 PM | #273 | |
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05-06-2016, 06:27 PM | #274 | ||
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My understanding of the "AWD" system proposed for the F90 is rear wheel drive with "added traction" (this nomenclature had been used before by Van Meel himself). It is RWD most of the time; 100/0 split rear to front with very lightweight components utilized for the front axle drive system. With launch control, the bias splits and engages the front axle. Additionally, the Stereoscopic Cameras and 3D Flash LIDAR assist the DSC control unit in lateral acceleration/deceleration to increase or decrease the front bias. At speed (which occurs with Fxx M5/M6 Competition Package/M Driver's Pack), the rear differential unlocks acting as a fully open differential, reducing the induced drivetrain loss. To understand true vehicle acceleration, take a look at fluid dynamics (for aerodynamic effects), parasitic drivetrain loss, tractive force, and rolling resistance. Elasticity is the key. There is a video recently of the F90 and M4 GTS on the Nordschleife at the same time. There is no way an F10 M5 can go from braking to acceleration. Prior to the apex in that corner without some type of additional traction. It would spit the rear out prior to the apex. I just finished a precision driving course for a law enforcement department utilizing my F10 as the lead and pursuit car. If the department will allow, I'll post some videos showing various aspects of these phenomenon and the role of DSC (regardless of switch position). |
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05-06-2016, 06:59 PM | #275 | |||
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Wtf does it mean? |
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05-06-2016, 09:13 PM | #276 |
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05-06-2016, 09:35 PM | #277 | |
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F=MA, so A=F/M. M is what it is, but F being subject to the all of the variables it does, traction quickly is the limiting factor. The M Active Differential surely is a huge benefit in the absence of AWD on the F10. So what else can the F90 do in the absence of AWD? I'd think that the F90 will have: CFP driveshaft for reduced rotational inertia and less driveline windup - be willing to be this 100% Lightened halfshafts - 75%? Active swaybars to reduce weight transfer - probably only 25% as this adds a lot of weight. Lightened engine internals and flywheel - Likely 75% or greater. One thing about the M177 engine in the C63 is the response of the damn thing. Revved in neutral, the rate at which it loses revs is positively race-car like. There are only so many tricks you can do on a street car before you run out of the ability to put the power down. |
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05-07-2016, 02:27 PM | #278 |
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The problem is that in interviews market specific information is addressed to one particular market in general because they cannot give anything away at this time.
And that things are construed by the media to be determined as market specific when in fact it is not respective of other markets.
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05-07-2016, 04:04 PM | #279 | |
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05-07-2016, 05:31 PM | #280 |
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Agreed. It needs to differentiate itself from the current M5. They should take a page from the S6 and lower the damn price if the F90 is more of just a refresh. It's competitors in the price category have AWD, and better specks even though it pains me to say it.
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05-07-2016, 06:53 PM | #281 | |
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You want an Autonomous M5? The M5 is a car that has to be driven and not by itself.
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05-07-2016, 08:53 PM | #282 | |
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Comfortable and useful in daily driving, can make anyone drive a line as well as Senna, kick the tail out and hold a perfect drift, or allow one to realize their true limits. |
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05-07-2016, 10:38 PM | #283 | |
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But if BMW thinks us M5 drivers are redlining it with paddle shifters in city traffic, then you are idiots! autonomous driving is useful for the occasions when you are stuck in traffic and doing the mind numbing stop go exercise. In this scenario I would love to switch to autopilot because then I can use my phone and relax a bit. So yes I want autonomous features in my M5 and if BMW doesn't offer it then I will switch to a W214 E63S instead because Mercedes is going to offer it. The kind of narrow minded comment you just posted is the kind of hubris that causes great companies to fail. If you think every M5 driver is driving flat out on country roads all the time then you know nothing about your customers.
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05-08-2016, 04:06 PM | #284 | |
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And that is the great thing about the 30 Jahre getting it onto the road after work and stretching its legs on the way home to Grünwald. I use an i3 if I residence in Munich. We know our customers well and that is why they nixed the idea of having autonomous technology in the M5 because it is a driving machine with a various selection of attributes that offer further flexibility that is what the customer wants from the M5. I am sure that the alternatives M550d and M550e will offer Autonomous technology as per the regular 5er but I can understand why they do not want to introduce it on the new M5 especially when they have done so much to take the weight off. I have noticed that there is an increasing desire here to see BMW fail because they are not following company A. Yet there is no acceptance to the fact that BMW conceive and develop its own ideas in relation to markets and customer without resorting to company A or company B's business model. Yet still people say this is the reason why the company will fail with failing to take on board that the company is in fine financial health and adapting to the market and its trends with resorting to imitating another's ideas. And are expected to one of the first manufacturers to reach all legislation for EU/Cafe early. Individuality is what makes BMW the worlds most admired car company, without that individuality we become a typical car company by following everybody else.
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05-10-2016, 12:30 AM | #285 |
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I agree and am hoping this autonomous stuff is left out of M and even M Performance models (option only). On a side note, is it 550e or 550i? Still hoping for that V8...
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05-11-2016, 08:43 AM | #286 | |
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