[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

More to the F-Type as there will be a new Z3.
If we get to see one close check the A-pillar structure.

I know it has lots of camo on it, but it definitely looks smaller than an f-type..specially considering that the camo makes it "bigger" as a whole.

Aren't we supposed to be seeing 6-series mules already? I remember the f10 M5 and previous M6 were pretty much co-developed at some point.

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

What a surprise. It looks like a BMW!...............I wish bmw would do something more aggressive or really change the looks so every single 3 series or 5 series didnt look alike.

I've been saying that for a while..and although this G30 its not like C/E/S-class look alike, I certainly wished they could be more easly distinguished from each other. Pretty much like the E90/60 times..couldn't mistake any BMW from the other.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

I know it has lots of camo on it, but it definitely looks smaller than an f-type..specially considering that the camo makes it "bigger" as a whole.

Aren't we supposed to be seeing 6-series mules already? I remember the f10 M5 and previous M6 were pretty much co-developed at some point.

The 6er is on a different development schedule. The way current 6er and 5er materialized as we know them is something very few have the true details of. There is a single concept car from long ago that never saw the light of day and would have completely changed the current model layout and their designs.

It's very similar to how the S Class and Maybach (as a separate brand) came to be.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

I've been saying that for a while..and although this G30 its not like C/E/S-class look alike, I certainly wished they could be more easly distinguished from each other. Pretty much like the E90/60 times..couldn't mistake any BMW from the other.

Just wait until it's revealed. The G30 will have design features that make it equally discerning as familiar compared to other models.

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Originally Posted by miamiten

I figured the Z5 M Roadster was the car you were hinting at and the most obvious. There are 1 or 2 other (pun intended) future completely new M vehicles that we both know exist but aren't at the stage where they're clearly discernible. Beyond those, the X7M and M Performance variants are already being tested but not as a package, a very early X5M package mule is also starting to appear, and finally the the current and near future new model variants also out in the wild.

Completely new you mean M specific car? Like not based in any car on the current line up?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

Completely new you mean M specific car? Like not based in any car on the current line up?

///M versions of existing and future model lines that are in and of themselves new in at least one or more significant ways. Big hint, Beijing.

There's also the M3/M4CS (Club Sport) coming and most likely an M3 version of the M4 GTS.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by miamiten

Even though germancarfan is a troll, my statement wasn't brand biased. Any true car enthusiast who has seen the latest round of E63S spy vids at the Nordschleife would be nigh on impotent if they didn't get the fizzy feeling down below watching them. No doubt it's a monster and does handle quite well. It also will be quite a bit heavier. The C63S weighs as much as a 6cyl LWB 7 Series, the E43 as much as an 8cyl SWB 7 Series, and the new E63S will weight in the 4500 lb region. The F90 weight goal is quite a bit lower than that. It also will have some tricks up its sleeve. The current M5/E63S are fairly close and each one's benefit/detriment equal out most of the time.

Nordschleife times are the most manipulated times around and why BMW rarely makes the documentation public. There are 3 total configurations (Tourist, Manufacturer, and Race) and different speed restrictions depending on who the responsible party is for the car and the driver's license credentials. There isn't really a completely legal way to combine all of them and not violate a track restriction (Fines) while recording a time that isn't open for dispute.

AMS times are also very questionable in a way. They are the most consistent dude to Horst von Saurma as the driver, but he doesn't usually drive above 7-8/10's in the twisty bits.

The CTS-V Nordschleife "official" times are well known to be rigged through the use of performance enhancements (Pilot Sport Cup Tires, Magnesium wheels and UDM Wheels) and configurations made in the interest of "safety". Porsche did the same with the 918 by using a fixed roof prototype and de-contented interior. An F10 M5 with Competition Package and M Driver's Package, driven by one specific Factory Test Driver, with nothing but a more appropriate brake pad change on iron brakes, can complete a full lap in under 7:30. The other Factory Drivers can do it in the low 7:30 range.

Saying vehicle X is faster than vehicle Z all the time based off various recordings doesn't always work. Take the 918. One of the fastest production cars in the world. Yet it's slower on the Goodwood Hill Climb course than a Rolls Royce Wraith (which was within a few 10ths of a second behind the Bentley Continental GT3-R).

First of all the new CTS-V doesn't have a ring time, so I don't know how you can claimed that they cheated. And also M5 CP under 7:30? Where did you get that? Cars like the 458 Speciale, 911 GT3 RS, Carrera GT, Aventador and the likes are under 7:30, but M5?

BMW themselves claimed 7:55 for the F10 M5, which AMS ran 8:05, so the delta is about 10m sec. BMW said the CP version is 10 sec. faster, and AMS ran 7:54. Horst isn't exactly top flight race car driver but he is not slow either. And BMW never showed any proof, so who's not say they also cheated?

Fact is the new CTS-V beats M5 CP in all the track tests by all the magazines reviews, they are all third party tests with stock cars. This is much more believable than any claimed times.

You also claimed the new BMW 760 will trap 125+ in quarter mile, I don't know what your beef is with the other guy, but you have got some pretty bold claims yourself, it would be better if you can show some facts to back it up.

[DRTMGRT]

Hard to tell but seems like this rendering is pretty accurate.

Any experts care to weigh in?

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by DRTMGRT

Hard to tell but seems like this rendering is pretty accurate.

Any experts care to weigh in?

Its an F10 with G30 design elements utilising an M3 Aerodynamic Packet.

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Originally Posted by miamiten

///M versions of existing and future model lines that are in and of themselves new in at least one or more significant ways. Big hint, Beijing.

There's also the M3/M4CS (Club Sport) coming and most likely an M3 version of the M4 GTS.

Yeah..that's what I thought..not M specific..just M version of regular production models. I was talking about something in the lines of R8, AMG GT..maybe not a competitor to them, but something built by M only.

I just wish I'll be alive to see BMW M build something of their own..I know they want.

[HXS]

My buddy saw one on his early morning commute on the 118 in SoCal.

So all you SoCal peeps be on the lookout!

[N & M]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

More to the F-Type as there will be a new Z3.
If we get to see one close check the A-pillar structure.

Sounds good; F Type V6 or V8? In essence will it compete with 718 or 911?

[DGod]

Can't believe the next generation will still use that ridiculous cheap looking rear floating caliper. I hated that about my F10, couldn't get over it!

[firedown31]

Originally Posted by DGod

Can't believe the next generation will still use that ridiculous cheap looking rear floating caliper. I hated that about my F10, couldn't get over it!

Such a eyesore. How hard would it be for BMW to throw something decent looking on there?

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Its an F10 with G30 design elements utilising an M3 Aerodynamic Packet.

Will the next 5er/M5 be the same size as the current car? It would be great to see the car stop growing.

I have no doubt that it will continue to be the best car in its segment.

As an aside, my cousin just bought a 2000 my e39 528i with only 65,000 for a daily driver... what a fantastic car. You can really feel that 'bmw dna" in different platforms that you drive over the years.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by DGod

Can't believe the next generation will still use that ridiculous cheap looking rear floating caliper. I hated that about my F10, couldn't get over it!

It's the best method of incorporating an electromechanical parking brake without the need for a separate brake for that purpose. Aesthetically it's not the most pleasant, but it's the lightest method.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

First of all the new CTS-V doesn't have a ring time, so I don't know how you can claimed that they cheated. And also M5 CP under 7:30? Where did you get that? Cars like the 458 Speciale, 911 GT3 RS, Carrera GT, Aventador and the likes are under 7:30, but M5?

BMW themselves claimed 7:55 for the F10 M5, which AMS ran 8:05, so the delta is about 10m sec. BMW said the CP version is 10 sec. faster, and AMS ran 7:54. Horst isn't exactly top flight race car driver but he is not slow either. And BMW never showed any proof, so who's not say they also cheated?

Fact is the new CTS-V beats M5 CP in all the track tests by all the magazines reviews, they are all third party tests with stock cars. This is much more believable than any claimed times.

You also claimed the new BMW 760 will trap 125+ in quarter mile, I don't know what your beef is with the other guy, but you have got some pretty bold claims yourself, it would be better if you can show some facts to back it up.

First, I don't have a "beef" with the other guy. Someone with 5 total posts that all have phrases "this is a BMW Blog but...., the Mercedes xxx did xxx compared to xxx" is fanboy-ism.

There is a current gen CTS-V Nordschleife time. It's also been removed from easy online search (GM is not the only company to spend the money to do so). During the attempts, the car did experience a significant crash. This was the final straw for Nurburgring owners after a slew of incidents that put their insurance coverage at risk and implementation of the most restrictive speed limits were carried out. Waivers to speed limits were granted in certain areas with the warning any documented official lap time records by Manufacturers were not allowed.

As to the M5 CP/MDP under 7:30, I know most, if not all of the driver's. This one in particular is the most humble and least "competitive" of the group. There is no reason to lie. I've driven it in 7:39.42 myself using a car from the same identically equipped fleet. I also do not drive the Nordschleife frequently enough to feel comfortable pushing the limits on certain sections given the situations where the F10 M5 has some unpredictable traits that appear in several areas of the circuit.

The CTS-V and ATS-V are amazing cars. Both are a better overall package than the F10/F80/F82 M's.

Where the Fxx M5/M6's show something spectacular is an area (speed range) where most can not experience.

On the M760i (and Alpina B7), my estimates are not just pulling numbers out of my ass. They also are very surprising to me as to how small evolutions of vehicle dynamics have such an immense impact. There is something called Physics from which vehicle performance can be calculated using the principles of it. It requires some technical information to be available to do so. With both of those cars, there are public figures that have not been released where reverse extrapolation can be used. Direct calculation requires internal knowledge of certain values and component operation and use would violate my ND agreements. As soon as the preliminary asterisks and TBD figures convert to MFR Estimates, I'll happily use those and provide the evidence. The Fxx M5/M6 could be significantly faster both in time and velocity if they weren't hampered by the significant tractive force limitation and drivetrain resistance at lower velocities. The tricks the Nissan GTR utilize to achieve its high figures appear in the B7, M760i, and upcoming M's. Some already appear which is why the current M5/M6, when equipped a certain way, have very different acceleration values above a particular velocity point.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

Will the next 5er/M5 be the same size as the current car? It would be great to see the car stop growing.

Overall, it will fall between the current F06/F10. Certain dimensions do have to grow, but the overall size in most dimensions will remain extremely close of not identical to where they are.

Weight and the mass distribution will definitely change, especially with the F90.

[Nordkeyz73]

Originally Posted by DRTMGRT

Hard to tell but seems like this rendering is pretty accurate.

Any experts care to weigh in?

We're going to see more M2-like front intakes I think.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Nordkeyz73

We're going to see more M2-like front intakes I think.

It will be familiar but unique. The cooling intake air volume, engine fresh air intake routing, aerodynamic effects, and brake cooling have been optimized. No need for the total frontal volume to be as high (hence the availability of ACC) nor does it require as much ram effect as the M2. Active Aerodynamics are also being implemented.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by miamiten

First, I don't have a "beef" with the other guy. Someone with 5 total posts that all have phrases "this is a BMW Blog but...., the Mercedes xxx did xxx compared to xxx" is fanboy-ism.

There is a current gen CTS-V Nordschleife time. It's also been removed from easy online search (GM is not the only company to spend the money to do so). During the attempts, the car did experience a significant crash. This was the final straw for Nurburgring owners after a slew of incidents that put their insurance coverage at risk and implementation of the most restrictive speed limits were carried out. Waivers to speed limits were granted in certain areas with the warning any documented official lap time records by Manufacturers were not allowed.

As to the M5 CP/MDP under 7:30, I know most, if not all of the driver's. This one in particular is the most humble and least "competitive" of the group. There is no reason to lie. I've driven it in 7:39.42 myself using a car from the same identically equipped fleet. I also do not drive the Nordschleife frequently enough to feel comfortable pushing the limits on certain sections given the situations where the F10 M5 has some unpredictable traits that appear in several areas of the circuit.

The CTS-V and ATS-V are amazing cars. Both are a better overall package than the F10/F80/F82 M's.

Where the Fxx M5/M6's show something spectacular is an area (speed range) where most can not experience.

On the M760i (and Alpina B7), my estimates are not just pulling numbers out of my ass. They also are very surprising to me as to how small evolutions of vehicle dynamics have such an immense impact. There is something called Physics from which vehicle performance can be calculated using the principles of it. It requires some technical information to be available to do so. With both of those cars, there are public figures that have not been released where reverse extrapolation can be used. Direct calculation requires internal knowledge of certain values and component operation and use would violate my ND agreements. As soon as the preliminary asterisks and TBD figures convert to MFR Estimates, I'll happily use those and provide the evidence. The Fxx M5/M6 could be significantly faster both in time and velocity if they weren't hampered by the significant tractive force limitation and drivetrain resistance at lower velocities. The tricks the Nissan GTR utilize to achieve its high figures appear in the B7, M760i, and upcoming M's. Some already appear which is why the current M5/M6, when equipped a certain way, have very different acceleration values above a particular velocity point.

So the M5 CP ring times is just hearsay, well, I won't even go into that because I can also claim I drove Golf R around the ring in 7:20 and I only drove it with my left hand.

As for the 760, look, the newest X5M (while a little heavier than 760) is not anywhere close to trapping 120, in fact it doesn't even trap 115. Mercedes S63 doesn't trap 120 either. So with all that weight, unless the 760 is making 760HP, no way it will trap 125+. Maybe I will buy it trapping 120, but 125+? That's stretching it too much.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

So the M5 CP ring times is just hearsay, well, I won't even go into that because I can also claim I drove Golf R around the ring in 7:20 and I only drove it with my left hand.

As for the 760, look, the newest X5M (while a little heavier than 760) is not anywhere close to trapping 120, in fact it doesn't even trap 115. Mercedes S63 doesn't trap 120 either. So with all that weight, unless the 760 is making 760HP, no way it will trap 125+. Maybe I will buy it trapping 120, but 125+? That's stretching it too much.

I have no issue with and understandably see how an unsubstantiated Nordschleife time for an F10 CP with M Driver's Package of under 7:30 is delusional. At the same time, M Driver's Package is the key difference. A non-CP with it will do better than a CP without. There are 3 sections where the normal 250 km/h limiter can be hit with an F10 M5. Two of these are fairly long stretches. The longest of the two will even hit the M Driver's Pack 320km/h limiter. This can easily shed 10sec off. The course is so long and diverse that significant amounts of time can be gained or lost, 1/10th to 1sec+ at a time. Doing so requires a bit of work. Also helps when the driver is about 40kg soaking wet.

On the other topic, the X5M isn't a little heavier, it's almost 207kg more than the M760i (DIN-DIN). It also has 20% more frontal area and almost 30% more aerodynamic drag. The M760i and S63 (LWB) have the exact same curb weight (4806lbs), tiny aerodynamic advantage for the BMW, yet the S63 consistently produces performance numbers within spitting distance of the much heavier X5M/X6M. If the Bentley Continental GT3-R can pull off an 11.54 @ 122.1 with a slightly higher weight, much more drag above 110km/h, and less BHP/Torque available, why would 2.9 mph more be unimaginable for the slippery BMW?