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      10-10-2019, 10:36 AM   #45
Nikolov
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Originally Posted by Ryno 27 View Post
I have a 2020 competition and had the MPE installed at the port...sounds AMAZING
Now I’m really confused What build date is your 2020 Comp?
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      10-10-2019, 10:49 AM   #46
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Now I’m really confused What build date is your 2020 Comp?
July 2019
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      10-10-2019, 10:52 AM   #47
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Hmm, now I’m starting to doubt my theory about the MPE not being compatible due to the PPF. On the other hand Akrapovic also have different exhausts for the F90, depending if the car has PPF or not and it says on the website that the full PPF exhaust system requires an ECU flash.

Ryno, do you know if your car has a PPF?
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      10-10-2019, 11:40 AM   #48
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I don’t know. How would one determine?
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      10-10-2019, 01:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryno 27 View Post
I have a 2020 competition and had the MPE installed at the port...sounds AMAZING
A 2020? With pops and bangs?
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      10-10-2019, 01:36 PM   #50
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A 2020? With pops and bangs?
Mine's also a 2020 and it quite definitely has pops and bangs and farts and cracks... ask my neighbors.
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      10-10-2019, 02:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by M135iXdriver View Post
A 2020? With pops and bangs?
Mine's also a 2020 and it quite definitely has pops and bangs and farts and cracks... ask my neighbors.
What the hell is going on... my contact at BMW got 0 intel on any kind of changes... he will ask some questions and let me know what he found out.
Will let you guys know - will meet him on tuesday.
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      10-10-2019, 05:23 PM   #52
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Dgillies how did you get on, I've pm'ed you too
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      10-11-2019, 01:20 AM   #53
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MSX, All, the bottom line is that the 2020 regulations have necessitated the inclusion of a PPF which is not compatible with the Competition exhaust so in effect it renders it useless and the sound is equivalent to the standard irrespective of M2 mode.

However due to timing and the fact I am one of the people who test drove several cars that did have the pop's and bangs etc... and this being a contributor to the purchase decision I have taken a video of a Sytner Nottingham car with modes and noise impact (standard to M2) and believe that BMW have a case to answer for misrepresentation. The competition pack includes an M Performance exhaust which is a cost within the pack price, so either they have to "fix" my car (I do not think they will) or at very least compensate me for the difference.

In 3 months time as people drive the new 2020 model and experience the quieter exhaust and continue to advance to order they will not have a case however at this moment of change there is an opportunity to push BMW.

Impossible to deal direct with BMW so I have my dealer principle involved, however I have had to use very formal legal language to drive action. I have also withheld payment for my running in service until a resolve is achieved.

It is fair to say the dealer is also unhappy as they were not made a ware and have used the noise to sell this car since its release so they do have skin in the game!

More to come as this unfolds, however suffice to say I am extremely disappointed.
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      10-11-2019, 01:39 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillies View Post
believe that BMW have a case to answer for misrepresentation.
I would imagine you have a near zero chance of success in a court case for this matter against BMW UK or BMW AG....unless your sales contract or BMW sales literature explicitly stated that you would receive a specific exhaust sound from a new car sold to you and that sound is not present.
If Sytner mis-represented the car (re the sound it would make) during the sales process and you can prove it then you may well have a case against them.
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      10-11-2019, 02:11 AM   #55
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I agree, however need to try. The fact I am leaning on is that the sales case and decision to buy was based on the BMW cars test driven and exact specification to drive the purchase specification and decision. So I took the competition over the standard M5 for the wheels and exhaust noise based on the vehicles representing the product at the time of purchase.

You could say it is like buying a sofa from the shop, seeing a brown sofa and ordering it based o the specification and a blue sofa arrives, it does not meet the expectation and representation made in the buying process. I know this is a long shot however need to try something!
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      10-11-2019, 02:31 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillies View Post
I agree, however need to try. The fact I am leaning on is that the sales case and decision to buy was based on the BMW cars test driven and exact specification to drive the purchase specification and decision. So I took the competition over the standard M5 for the wheels and exhaust noise based on the vehicles representing the product at the time of purchase.

You could say it is like buying a sofa from the shop, seeing a brown sofa and ordering it based o the specification and a blue sofa arrives, it does not meet the expectation and representation made in the buying process. I know this is a long shot however need to try something!
Mine is a 2020 model, built in August 2019

Would you know when the PPF was introduced? i thought they were on all cars since summer 2018 or has the type of PPF changed?
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      10-11-2019, 02:36 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillies View Post
I agree, however need to try. The fact I am leaning on is that the sales case and decision to buy was based on the BMW cars test driven and exact specification to drive the purchase specification and decision. So I took the competition over the standard M5 for the wheels and exhaust noise based on the vehicles representing the product at the time of purchase.

You could say it is like buying a sofa from the shop, seeing a brown sofa and ordering it based o the specification and a blue sofa arrives, it does not meet the expectation and representation made in the buying process. I know this is a long shot however need to try something!
Your case is as always with the retailer who sold you the car
You don't have a contract with BMW UK/AG so they can not be held liable for breach of contract.
I do sympathise with your situation but I would suggest that fighting a lost cause is unlikely to give you a satisfactory outcome.
I would imagine the only way forward is to put it to the dealer, that you bought a new car from them with the expectation that it would sound the same as the one demonstrated to you by *that dealership* and that a discrepancy can be proved. There is some case law that applies in this case.
But even then I'm fairly sure that the dealer could reasonably argue in court that the change in exhaust sound is a function of EU environmental legislation.
There is usually some small print on the sales contract somewhere regarding changes in vehicle specification.
I guess its always worth a conversation but myself I wouldn't spend any money on legal assistance.

EDIT: Has the dealer ruled out any fault with the exhaust "button" on the centre console?
Bit of a long shot as my car is an older build non cp car....but if I switch off the M exhaust button on my car then the exhaust is quiet even in Sport+

Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 10-11-2019 at 02:49 AM..
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      10-11-2019, 03:47 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillies View Post
MSX, All, the bottom line is that the 2020 regulations have necessitated the inclusion of a PPF which is not compatible with the Competition exhaust so in effect it renders it useless and the sound is equivalent to the standard irrespective of M2 mode.

However due to timing and the fact I am one of the people who test drove several cars that did have the pop's and bangs etc... and this being a contributor to the purchase decision I have taken a video of a Sytner Nottingham car with modes and noise impact (standard to M2) and believe that BMW have a case to answer for misrepresentation. The competition pack includes an M Performance exhaust which is a cost within the pack price, so either they have to "fix" my car (I do not think they will) or at very least compensate me for the difference.

In 3 months time as people drive the new 2020 model and experience the quieter exhaust and continue to advance to order they will not have a case however at this moment of change there is an opportunity to push BMW.

Impossible to deal direct with BMW so I have my dealer principle involved, however I have had to use very formal legal language to drive action. I have also withheld payment for my running in service until a resolve is achieved.

It is fair to say the dealer is also unhappy as they were not made a ware and have used the noise to sell this car since its release so they do have skin in the game!

More to come as this unfolds, however suffice to say I am extremely disappointed.
Could you let me know the reg numbers of the M5's with the noise and yours as I have access to BMW's part catalogue(Not the one in the public domain) which will show the exact PPF fitted to the cars and I can see if the part numbers our different because I suspect it is a software change.
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      10-11-2019, 05:16 AM   #59
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Perhaps @lemetier can share some insight on when the PPF was standard for EU/US and why the MPE isn't compatible with EU cars and also why realoem.com lists it to be compatible with cars up to 03/2019, but Ryno has it installed on a 7/2019 car?
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      10-11-2019, 02:25 PM   #60
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I took delivery of my non comp F90 two day ago. I specced the optional M sport exhaust and can confirm there are no pops or bangs at all. The car was built mid September and I am in the UK. Love the car but I do feel the exhaust option is £1100 down the drain!
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      10-12-2019, 09:52 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M135iXdriver View Post
A 2020? With pops and bangs?
Yes, all the pops and bangs
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      10-12-2019, 09:58 AM   #62
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This appears to be an issue for vehicles in Europe; cars in the USA still have the exhaust note with the loud pops, crackles, gurgle, etc
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      10-12-2019, 05:40 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryno 27 View Post
This appears to be an issue for vehicles in Europe; cars in the USA still have the exhaust note with the loud pops, crackles, gurgle, etc

Right, it is only an issue for EU Cars due to EU regulations. US Cars dont even have a ppf.

But there's one weird thing about it and thats the fact that all cars in EU have the ppf since Fall 2018 and until the new 2020 model came out they were loud although they had ppf. So I'm asking myself why is bmw starting to make the cars quieter with the new 2020 Modell in the middle of 2020?!

Would be also interessting to know if BMW used a Software Solution (Mapping, decode) or a Hardware Solution (new exhaust) in order to quiet the Sound and stop the bangs and crackles.. So when they just used another software maybe its possible to get the old non sound restricted software and the sound will be as it is supposed to be.
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      10-13-2019, 10:55 AM   #64
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Luca09, UC, Ian335XD.

OK, final update. BMW are confirming it is in alignment with the new EU regulation and the PPF, I have shared with BMW this has been the case since 2018, however for some reason BMW has taken the opportunity to quieten the exhaust since July 1st 2019. I have approached this as misrepresentation due to the M Sports exhaust (which you can add to an M5 or comes within the competition pack) sounding exactly the same as the standard with the only difference being the black tailpipes.

It can not be legal or ethically correct for BMW to accept orders and money for something that is now technically and audibly equal. I approached BMW with their sales figures based on M5 Competition cars only (not M5 with exhaust option) manufactured for the UK market since July 1st and suffice to say it runs into hundreds of thousands of pounds BMW have taken for the exhaust part of the pack.

My dealership is negotiating (firmly on my side of the argument) on my behalf and think it likely I will be offered £2000 in compensation however even if this is the case I am left with the problem.

I am not sure if there is an aftermarket software or hardware fix to this issue, seems on the face of it to be software but I am not clear.

To coin the phrase I am "exhausted" with this issue and just feel let down and disappointed, the car is SOOOOO good in every other way and I finally thought BMW had resolved the weak sound from historic M5's (this is my 5th and 3rd generation). Gutted.

If anyone has any advice or options on how to resolve as this issue becomes wider please do let me know.

David
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      10-13-2019, 11:05 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillies View Post
Luca09, UC, Ian335XD.

OK, final update. BMW are confirming it is in alignment with the new EU regulation and the PPF, I have shared with BMW this has been the case since 2018, however for some reason BMW has taken the opportunity to quieten the exhaust since July 1st 2019. I have approached this as misrepresentation due to the M Sports exhaust (which you can add to an M5 or comes within the competition pack) sounding exactly the same as the standard with the only difference being the black tailpipes.

It can not be legal or ethically correct for BMW to accept orders and money for something that is now technically and audibly equal. I approached BMW with their sales figures based on M5 Competition cars only (not M5 with exhaust option) manufactured for the UK market since July 1st and suffice to say it runs into hundreds of thousands of pounds BMW have taken for the exhaust part of the pack.

My dealership is negotiating (firmly on my side of the argument) on my behalf and think it likely I will be offered £2000 in compensation however even if this is the case I am left with the problem.

I am not sure if there is an aftermarket software or hardware fix to this issue, seems on the face of it to be software but I am not clear.

To coin the phrase I am "exhausted" with this issue and just feel let down and disappointed, the car is SOOOOO good in every other way and I finally thought BMW had resolved the weak sound from historic M5's (this is my 5th and 3rd generation). Gutted.

If anyone has any advice or options on how to resolve as this issue becomes wider please do let me know.

David
My production date is July 2nd so I guess I slipped through by the skin of my teeth.

Sorry to hear about this—I can certainly understand your anger.

Did they explain why they're imposing this on US vehicles, too? I understand they do this sometimes for manufacturing simplicity but this seems more like functionality disabled through software (the early comments on HW and incompatibility notwithstanding).
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      10-13-2019, 11:45 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillies View Post
Luca09, UC, Ian335XD.

OK, final update. BMW are confirming it is in alignment with the new EU regulation and the PPF, I have shared with BMW this has been the case since 2018, however for some reason BMW has taken the opportunity to quieten the exhaust since July 1st 2019. I have approached this as misrepresentation due to the M Sports exhaust (which you can add to an M5 or comes within the competition pack) sounding exactly the same as the standard with the only difference being the black tailpipes.

It can not be legal or ethically correct for BMW to accept orders and money for something that is now technically and audibly equal. I approached BMW with their sales figures based on M5 Competition cars only (not M5 with exhaust option) manufactured for the UK market since July 1st and suffice to say it runs into hundreds of thousands of pounds BMW have taken for the exhaust part of the pack.

My dealership is negotiating (firmly on my side of the argument) on my behalf and think it likely I will be offered £2000 in compensation however even if this is the case I am left with the problem.

I am not sure if there is an aftermarket software or hardware fix to this issue, seems on the face of it to be software but I am not clear.

To coin the phrase I am "exhausted" with this issue and just feel let down and disappointed, the car is SOOOOO good in every other way and I finally thought BMW had resolved the weak sound from historic M5's (this is my 5th and 3rd generation). Gutted.

If anyone has any advice or options on how to resolve as this issue becomes wider please do let me know.

David
I'm at the edge... here in Switzerland the M sport exhaust is an USD 1.900.- option... with the better sound and bangs, crackles, burps and farts... a legit option... love it or leave it.

But now it's almost an USD 1.900.- option for black exhaust tips... and maybe a bit bassier than the regular one... but for sure not louder... Switzerland is not member of the EU, thus hope dies last... but our market is so small and neglectible... my guess is BMW will not care about this.

The worst part: BMW dealers were not informed!
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