[VeNoM__M5]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

I will be getting my tool next week.
I'll let you know when I receive it and we arrange time.

Thanks Ben, confident in what RC can do and all good since I've been traveling a bit for work anyway!

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by VeNoM__M5

Well, I've tried both recently. The RC didn't work for me. Have tried uninstalling and installing a few times and letting the car adapt but can't feel a darn thing between any map settings compared to stock.

I tried a JB4 in map 1 setting with just the TMAP sensors and immediately noticed a difference.

Now, I'm not giving up on RC just yet and r33_RGSport is helping me troubleshoot so I can report back if it's just a faulty unit or not.

And no I don't have a dragy, this is just my ass measuring performance but I raced professional in a few circuits internationally so know what adjustments on a car can do.

thats odd, please keep us posted. i'm on the verge of going RC.

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by kani179

What's up guys. Some input on the RaceChip compared to the jb4.

Thanks!

There is no comparison between the two really. JB4 has CANbus and can do advanced tuning. Since the question comes up so often the FAQ covers the differences:

https://www.burgertuning.com/pages/faq

What’s the difference between JB4 and RaceChip?

JB4 vs racechip dte nm vr afe scorcher lap uncle and countless others.

While the JB4 is the best and most highly developed piggyback tuning system there is no shortage of would-be competitors. We’ll discuss just a handful of the differences below.

What is CANbus anyway? CANBus is the spinal cord that connects the many modules or computers throughout your vehicle together and allows them to operate as a cohesive team. When a technician plugs a tool in to the OBDII port for diagnostics, it’s tapping in to the CANbus allowing full access to the entire vehicle. The JB4 includes this same level of vehicle-wide computer integration. A JB4 with its CANbus connection can read virtually every sensor on your vehicle including critical internal calculations like fuel trims and knock count. This allows the JB4 to take gas pedal position, throttle position, oil temperature, water temperature, intake temperature, engine speed, air/fuel ratio, fuel trims, ignition advance, knock, and countless other factors in to your tuning, providing smoother, stronger, and safer performance. On the other hand boxes like RaceChip without CANbus are limited to reading only the boost sensors they attach to resulting in a “MAP clamp” tuning approach. Common symptoms of non-CANbus related tunes include stuttering, poor shifting, and reduced top-end performance. Since these systems can’t correct the conditions causing the issue, their only solution to any tuning issue is to “turn down the boost”.

It’s not just about boost. While boost control is the most visible aspect of piggyback tuning it’s important to keep in mind fuel & ignition control are just as critical to engine performance and safety. Cranking up boost without properly accounting for fueling and ignition can result in detonation, knocking, stuttering, excessive EGT melting parts, and degraded performance. While JB4 strategies for fuel and ignition control vary by platform - using its additional signal ports, processing power, and CANbus - boost, timing, and fuel are always accounted for. And unlike other the tuning systems, you don’t need to take our word for it. The JB4 allows monitoring of all critical engine criteria including diagnostic faults in real time via the optional JB4 mobile app.

What’s with all the different JB4 systems? Each JB4 is designed from the ground up specifically for your vehicle. That includes BMS sourcing one of every vehicle we of support for development and long term R&D. It’s why you’ll usually see *actual* dyno charts and performance metrics for each vehicle on our website and why the JB4 systems themselves need to vary by platform. With each application we optimize the JB4 hardware and software for that specific platform and we always commit to future development through free JB4 software updates that can be loaded via the optional JB4 mobile app. Updates that give the JB4 improved performance, new features, more mapping options, and much more. It’s why you’ll often see BMS employees active within Facebook groups and car forums interacting with our customers for feedback and ideas for improving the JB4 for that specific application.

Our competitors, on the other hand, usually take a universal approach to tuning. Using the same hardware and software they apply the minimum required changes to make it compatible across as many different turbocharged vehicles as possible, often ignoring critical platform differences and changing only the MAP sensor connections on the harness before moving on to the next vehicle application never to return.

What’s the deal with the gas mileage claims? JB4 competitors often make false claims of “improved fuel economy” using their tuning systems. It is not possible to improve fuel economy using MAP sensor tuning and generally speaking more horsepower requires more fuel to support it. So what is the basis of these claims? It all comes down to how fuel economy is measured by the factory computer in some vehicles. Since RaceChip and other simplistic MAP clamp tuning systems apply a preset boost increase at all times regardless of gas pedal position or operational mode, some vehicles base their internal mileage reading off this full time bogus signal resulting in higher than actual mileage displayed in dash. If you measure economy using your trip meter in dash you’ll discover not that fuel economy has increased but rather that RaceChip has simply made the internal gas mileage reading inaccurate. The JB4 on the other hand generally does not negatively affect the economy readings in dash, and while it’s always true that making more power requires more fuel, with the JB4 you’re only using more fuel when racing around under heavy throttle making more power. Fuel economy during normal driving with the JB4 enabled is unchanged.

[TrevorM3]

so, in other words.. you'd do jb4. lol ^

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

so, in other words.. you'd do jb4. lol ^

Yes. Because it provides more of what you paid for: increased power/performance.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

thats odd, please keep us posted. i'm on the verge of going RC.

Perhaps they should redefine RC as the "Rebel's Choice". No, I'm not labelling you a rebel, the thought just made me giggle a little.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Yes. Because it provides more of what you paid for: increased power/performance.

jb4 left a bad taste in my mouth from f10 chasis. I know it was very popular, but i had an AA piggy, andd everytime i ran into a jb4 m5, they lost. And then a buddy of mine actually popped a brand new motor in his f10. So, meh.



I think for someone who wants to plug n play, (while having ZERO interest in alternate fueling, or even caring how anything else works) RC is for them. (me)

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Perhaps they should refine RC as the "Rebel's Choice". No, I'm not labelling you a rebel, the thought just made me giggle a little.

Be nice now. I thought we are buddy already. Haha.
I never say bad things about JuiceBox #4.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Be nice now. I thought we are buddy already. Haha.
I never say bad things about JuiceBox #4.

Hey now, I complimented the RC! If I had to similarly redefine the JB abbreviation, it'd be much more derogatory: "Jeez, Borg!"

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Hey now, I complimented the RC! If I had to similarly redefine the JB abbreviation, it'd be much more derogatory: "Jeez, Borg!"

At least both doesn't pronounced "No El Ninõ".

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

At least both doesn't pronounced "No El Ninõ".

They don't even deserve the brain power to conceive of something derogatory—a total scam from beginning to their very quick end. Trolls—Ay yai yai!

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

jb4 left a bad taste in my mouth from f10 chasis. I know it was very popular, but i had an AA piggy, andd everytime i ran into a jb4 m5, they lost. And then a buddy of mine actually popped a brand new motor in his f10. So, meh.

I think for someone who wants to plug n play, (while having ZERO interest in alternate fueling, or even caring how anything else works) RC is for them. (me)

The F10 S63TU is pretty stout, we racked up a lot of hard raced JB4 miles on ours, at fairly obscene boost levels I'd never suggest for a casual customer. There are plenty of F10 M5 customers with 30k, 50k, and even 100k JB4 tuned miles I've met. So for one to blow up must have had some really odd circumstances around it.

On the JB4 you can always just install the two MAP connections, skip CANbus, skip EWG, and have the same sub-par performance as RC offers but with actual resale value down the road and the ability to add more power and control later when you're ready for it. Another option is the BMS F90 Stage1 which is a $450 version of JB4 with no CANbus and no EWG. It's not an accident there are JB4 tuned F90 M5s knocking on 9 second quarter miles but the nice thing about JB4 is you can run as mild or wild as you want and the app even lets you check for any hidden fault codes before going in for service, something you'd never know unless you read codes with a special BMW tool.

[subzero05]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

thats odd, please keep us posted. i'm on the verge of going RC.

I've used the RC on 2 other cars with very good results. Atleast for what I was looking for. I don't have any personal experience with JB stuff, but I didn't want to hook up those extra cables they have with their kit as I thought it looked quite hokey, but just me. plenty of people out there are fans

[subzero05]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

There is no comparison between the two really. JB4 has CANbus and can do advanced tuning. Since the question comes up so often the FAQ covers the differences:

https://www.burgertuning.com/pages/faq

ha, clearly burger tuning taking a "knock RC down" approach by this . clearly much of whats stated im sure is accurate that burger can do more tuning with that "data cable" thingy they offer (which I personally think looks like crap to bring thru the firewall), but that's just me. Its really personal preference when all is said and done. Power figures and the basic "principals" on how they both do their tuning (piggyback style) is the same or closely matched, one is just easier and cleaner looking than the other, in my eyes anyway. Im sure RC is well aware of burger and their "tuning difference statement", probably take the high road and not waste their time with stuff like that.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by subzero05

ha, clearly burger tuning taking a "knock RC down" approach by this . clearly much of whats stated im sure is accurate that burger can do more tuning with that "data cable" thingy they offer (which I personally think looks like crap to bring thru the firewall), but that's just me. Its really personal preference when all is said and done. Power figures and the basic "principals" on how they both do their tuning (piggyback style) is the same or closely matched, one is just easier and cleaner looking than the other, in my eyes anyway. Im sure RC is well aware of burger and their "tuning difference statement", probably take the high road and not waste their time with stuff like that.

It kinda seems like you're ignoring everything positive that's been said about the JB. :

The power gain potential between the 2 is near identical when the JB's installed in its most basic of configurations—their installation requirements for this mode are identical. When you give it control over the electronic wastegates and allow it to read additional metrics through OBD II, the gains jump substantially. But that's has been stated in this and other recent threads repeatedly—there's also tons of performance data from both the track and the dyno to attest to it. Why are you ignoring that?

The advanced JB4 setup is definitely more complex to install.

The OBD II hookup in my car is absolutely invisible unless you're on your hands and knees with a flashlight crawling around my footwell so I'm confused by what you mean here.

[onfireX5]

I love it when the "tastes great" vs "less filling" comes out.

[subzero05]

Originally Posted by limeypride

It kinda seems like you're ignoring everything positive that's been said about the JB. :

The power gain potential between the 2 is near identical when the JB's installed in its most basic of configurations—their installation requirements for this mode are identical. When you give it control over the electronic wastegates and allow it to read additional metrics through OBD II, the gains jump substantially. But that's has been stated in this and other recent threads repeatedly—there's also tons of performance data from both the track and the dyno to attest to it. Why are you ignoring that?

The advanced JB4 setup is definitely more complex to install.


The OBD II hookup in my car is absolutely invisible unless you're on your hands and knees with a flashlight crawling around my footwell so I'm confused by what you mean here.

Agreed, I simply mean that the JB4 is a more complex setup, and sure it would likely do more than a RC unit due to that aspect. Just not something I would want to do , but to each his own. all good w/me

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by subzero05

Agreed, I simply mean that the JB4 is a more complex setup, and sure it would likely do more than a RC unit due to that aspect. Just not something I would want to do , but to each his own. all good w/me

It doesn't have to be more complex setup though that is the point. Just don't connect the things that you don't want to bother with. For similar money you retain the option to add those later if bored or need them, and the JB4 itself is going to have a lot more resale value down the road than RC.

[A Need For Speed]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

It doesn't have to be more complex setup though that is the point. Just don't connect the things that you don't want to bother with. For similar money you retain the option to add those later if bored or need them, and the JB4 itself is going to have a lot more resale value down the road than RC.

Point taken but for those of us that bought a $130K supercar, I’m not sure we give a shit about $500 JB4 resale bro. ��

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by A Need For Speed

Point taken but for those of us that bought a $130K supercar, I'm not sure we give a shit about $500 JB4 resale bro. ��

On the resale, yup, that's probably true for most of us.

Note, though, that the JB4 is not bound to a particular car which I think the RC is (or some number of cars)—perhaps I'm wrong on that? Either way, this is perhaps the 5th S63-variant M-car this JB4 has been on... that's kinda handy.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by A Need For Speed

Point taken but for those of us that bought a $130K supercar, I’m not sure we give a shit about $500 JB4 resale bro. ��

lets not get carried away, m5 isn't a supercar.. lol

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by A Need For Speed

Point taken but for those of us that bought a $130K supercar, I’m not sure we give a shit about $500 JB4 resale bro. ��

Most people get the JB4 because they want the absolute best and most highly developed piggyback tuning solution for their F90 regardless of cost. For many though cost is a factor and as the JB4 is a little more it matters to them that they'll get all of that extra and then some back down the road when they resell.