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      12-04-2017, 01:17 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
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Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
I'm very disappointed to hear all this negativity about new M5 on this forum, if you want pure
N/A Engine, Manual, lightweight M Car, then buy e92 M3 Competition Pack,
You are calling E92 a lightweight car?

I think most disappointment comes from the car not being a great "M5". It is a great car to newcomers and a decent car in the segment for journalists to review, but F90 has nowhere the impact that E39 and E60 had when they launched, especially when you remember that E60 had been compared to F430 in terms of character by JC on Top Gear.

It was sure a surprise to hear that steering feel is numb on the new M5 though. I thought they'd at least get these right having used the same engine and less characterful transmission.
Yes I call 1560kg lightweight, compared to rs4 or c63 it's way lighter.
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      12-04-2017, 01:32 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
Yes I call 1560kg lightweight, compared to rs4 or c63 it's way lighter.
Lightweight "stock" 4-5 seater car typically refers to cars in 1200-1400kg range.

It would be more accurate to say that E92 is a high revving, characterful car.

The only modern car in this segment (non special editions) that I would give the lightweight title would be the F82 M4.
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      12-04-2017, 01:36 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by CarbonFibre View Post
Here's a Canadian review of the F90:

http://www.canadianautoreview.ca/rev...18-bmw-m5.html

They also put up a pretty great exhaust note video for those of you wondering what this new M5 sounds like:

Great find, was looking for some exhaust clips.
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      12-04-2017, 01:38 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
Yes I call 1560kg lightweight, compared to rs4 or c63 it's way lighter.
Lightweight "stock" 4-5 seater car typically refers to cars in 1200-1400kg range.

It would be more accurate to say that E92 is a high revving, characterful car.

The only modern car in this segment (non special editions) that I would give the lightweight title would be the F82 M4.
Give me examples of 1200-1400 kg 4-5 seater performance cars that aren't hot hatchbacks.
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      12-04-2017, 01:57 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
Give me examples of 1200-1400 kg 4-5 seater performance cars that aren't hot hatchbacks.
E30 M3, E36 M3, Integra Type R, R32, R33, R34 (GTR or non-GTR alike), AE86, Evo 6~9, lots of JDM cars but some Europeans as well.
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      12-04-2017, 02:06 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
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Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
Give me examples of 1200-1400 kg 4-5 seater performance cars that aren't hot hatchbacks.
E30 M3, E36 M3, Integra Type R, R32, R33, R34 (GTR or non-GTR alike), AE86, Evo 6~9, lots of JDM cars but some Europeans as well.
Apart from R34, nothing else come close to e92 M3's Performance, unless heavily modified, even R34's usability is nowhere near M3's.
M2 1500 kg
M3 1580 kg
M4 1560 kg
All manual
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      12-04-2017, 02:10 PM   #95
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Lol @ considering a F82 M4 a "lightweight" 1200-1400kg 4-5 seater, but not the E92 M3.

Pass me that kool aid.
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      12-04-2017, 02:13 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
I'm very disappointed to hear all this negativity about new M5 on this forum, if you want pure
N/A Engine, Manual, lightweight M Car, then buy e92 M3 Competition Pack ...
Having owned both the E92 and E90 M3s (stripper ZCP manual), No these cars are definitely not lightweight. Good sounding engine but not a great M car overall.
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      12-04-2017, 02:47 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
Apart from R34, nothing else come close to e92 M3's Performance, unless heavily modified, even R34's usability is nowhere near M3's.
M2 1500 kg
M3 1580 kg
M4 1560 kg
All manual
E92 is a great car, but it is not lightweight. E92, with only removing interior&seats&battery, you would achieve around 100kg reduction max, which still puts at 1500kg range. It is possible to bring the weight down to 1300kg range, but it does take a ton of money, which is why I consider buying a stock one for a GT cruiser and light touge use.

PW ratio is a reference to straight line acceleration (not top speed,) and below are some of the reference data.

E92 M3 coupe 6MT no EDC, no option: 420hp (euro)/ 1655kg = 0.254
E30 M3 Evo II: 235hp/1200kg = 0.196
E36 M3 96+: 321hp/1460kg = 0.220
R32: 280 (limited) or 320 (limit removed) /1400kg =0.228
R33: 280 (limited) 330 or or 400 (nismo) / 1500kg =0.187 or 0.22 or 0.266
R34: 330 stock or 450 (nismo) / 1500kg = 0.22 or 0.3
Integra Type R: 200 / 1145 = 0.175
EVO 8: FQ400 (400hp)/ 1410kg=0.284

With weight around 1200-1400kg, you can take a different line around the tight hairpins compared to cars in 1500kg+. I have yet to see an E92 outrun slightly modified E36 (bilstein, bucket seats) on F1 circuits around here.
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      12-04-2017, 02:50 PM   #98
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Lol @ considering a F82 M4 a "lightweight" 1200-1400kg 4-5 seater, but not the E92 M3.

Pass me that kool aid.
Depends on where you live, but in my country,

F82 M4: 1490kg
E92 M3: 1630-1655kg

F82 M4 is dynoed around 410hp at the wheels, while E92 dynos 370 at the wheels.
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      12-04-2017, 03:31 PM   #99
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I'm not surprised by the negativity. The F90 was bound to ruffle a few feathers given all the traditional non-M features such as xDrive, no MT option, torque converter automatic, etc.

For this class, I believe M did what it needed to do to be competitive and stay relevant. The engine characteristics/output essentially demands AWD, and at least it's rear wheel biased (and can be turned off). And the fact that it's lighter than the F10 despite being bigger is a nice surprise.

Still, I am kind of melancholy when I reflect how different this car is to my E39 M5 (MT only, RWD, naturally aspirated V-8)...no matter, I am definitely not the target audience for this car.

And it is of course a tradition with every new M car to bemoan the death of whatever feature the preceding car had that the new one doesn't.
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      12-04-2017, 03:48 PM   #100
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0-100 in 7 secs too. Scary fast...!

Or maybe not best wait for the ZCP in case this is too slow
Never mind the ZCP, wait for the CS... Its unlikely there will be a CSL version but never say never.
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      12-04-2017, 03:50 PM   #101
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0-100 in 7 secs too. Scary fast...!

Or maybe not best wait for the ZCP in case this is too slow
Never mind the ZCP, wait for the CS... Its unlikely there will be a CSL version but never say never.
Rumour has it the M5 GTS actually starts at 60mph
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      12-04-2017, 03:51 PM   #102
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Rumour has it the M5 GTS actually starts at 60mph
It will have a manual and jet pack

An when the exhaust crackles it will shoot out M glitter
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      12-04-2017, 03:54 PM   #103
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Rumour has it the M5 GTS actually starts at 60mph
It will have a manual and jet pack


But the jet pack won't sound that great so you'll have to buy the M performance jet tubes and carbon nozzles to make sure everyone can hear you flying towards the next traffic jam
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      12-04-2017, 04:58 PM   #104
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First time in M5 history they are reusing essentially the same engine -__-
Sure about that?
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      12-04-2017, 05:03 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
Apart from R34, nothing else come close to e92 M3's Performance, unless heavily modified, even R34's usability is nowhere near M3's.
M2 1500 kg
M3 1580 kg
M4 1560 kg
All manual
E92 is a great car, but it is not lightweight. E92, with only removing interior&seats&battery, you would achieve around 100kg reduction max, which still puts at 1500kg range. It is possible to bring the weight down to 1300kg range, but it does take a ton of money, which is why I consider buying a stock one for a GT cruiser and light touge use.

PW ratio is a reference to straight line acceleration (not top speed,) and below are some of the reference data.

E92 M3 coupe 6MT no EDC, no option: 420hp (euro)/ 1655kg = 0.254
E30 M3 Evo II: 235hp/1200kg = 0.196
E36 M3 96+: 321hp/1460kg = 0.220
R32: 280 (limited) or 320 (limit removed) /1400kg =0.228
R33: 280 (limited) 330 or or 400 (nismo) / 1500kg =0.187 or 0.22 or 0.266
R34: 330 stock or 450 (nismo) / 1500kg = 0.22 or 0.3
Integra Type R: 200 / 1145 = 0.175
EVO 8: FQ400 (400hp)/ 1410kg=0.284

With weight around 1200-1400kg, you can take a different line around the tight hairpins compared to cars in 1500kg+. I have yet to see an E92 outrun slightly modified E36 (bilstein, bucket seats) on F1 circuits around here.
It looks like you've got too much time on your hands mate, to type all this info for us, thanks for that, but deal breaker was the last bit, slightly modified e36 is better than e92?????
How about 7.27 around Nurburgring in e92 M3, I didn't see e36 beat that....
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      12-04-2017, 05:08 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
I'm very disappointed to hear all this negativity about new M5 on this forum, if you want pure
N/A Engine, Manual, lightweight M Car, then buy e92 M3 Competition Pack, there's plenty examples around, M5 is always been understated Super Quick Super Saloon with some extra gadgets. the way I see it, it's as fast, as grippy, as much gadgets as e63 or any other competition and then some, if you don't like Exaust sound, me neither, so buy aftermarket one or even BMW M Performance Exaust, in regards to steering, that's what BMW offers and I don't think anyone has better. Verdict: BMW M always been better, much better than competitors, but now, M got caught. Surely BMW will try to change the game again, and as long as they produce compact manual drivers cars I will always stick with BMW M, if don't agree, stop Moaning, buy something else and be happy.
If you're lucky to live in North America you can get the E60 M5 with the V10 and manual, an arguably better choice than the E92 M3 and a future classic ;-)
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      12-04-2017, 05:14 PM   #107
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      12-04-2017, 05:16 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
I'm very disappointed to hear all this negativity about new M5 on this forum, if you want pure
N/A Engine, Manual, lightweight M Car, then buy e92 M3 Competition Pack, there's plenty examples around, M5 is always been understated Super Quick Super Saloon with some extra gadgets. the way I see it, it's as fast, as grippy, as much gadgets as e63 or any other competition and then some, if you don't like Exaust sound, me neither, so buy aftermarket one or even BMW M Performance Exaust, in regards to steering, that's what BMW offers and I don't think anyone has better. Verdict: BMW M always been better, much better than competitors, but now, M got caught. Surely BMW will try to change the game again, and as long as they produce compact manual drivers cars I will always stick with BMW M, if don't agree, stop Moaning, buy something else and be happy.
If you're lucky to live in North America you can get the E60 M5 with the V10 and manual, an arguably better choice than the E92 M3 and a future classic ;-)
No Manual e60 M5 unfortunately in UK, I would've loved to tried it, but I think S85 was second best engine ever made not only by BMW M, but anybody else ever.
P.S. S70 is first, S65 is third in my book.
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      12-04-2017, 06:36 PM   #109
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I find it funny how everyone is talking about fixes for the car in the higher performing versions...why bother releasing an m5 then?
Marketing and Sales 101, its a business model. Just as Porsche does with the 911 or Ford does with the F-150.

The car market isn't what it was 10yrs ago when you did you best right out the gate as everything was mechanical which would be costly. Now everything is computer this and computer that, you want to add 100hp just tune it, you don't like the diff how it acts tune it.
Well, the car isn't even at dealers yet..And everyone is already trying to improve it lol
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      12-04-2017, 07:08 PM   #110
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Well, the car isn't even at dealers yet..And everyone is already trying to improve it lol
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