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      12-04-2017, 04:53 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
"The electric steering is much better this time around and while it’s 25% quicker, the weight also builds up nicely under rotation and feels much more linear."

http://www.canadianautoreview.ca/rev...18-bmw-m5.html
Only a couple of all the reviews (+ Car UK) praise the steering. The rest not too much...
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      12-04-2017, 05:00 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
BMW have had near on 7-8 years to get electric steering feel sorted since the switch from hydraulic. If it was going to be sorted it would have been for this release. I suspect the need to have a lighter feel for a heavy car in non-spirited daily driving is taking precedence.

Porsche (from what I've read) seem to be the only company who've nailed feel from EPS. Might I suggest BMW buy a few and work out how (?)
This article from Car Throttle explains how Porsche provide"feel" for their EPS, fascinating: https://www.carthrottle.com/post/ele...-does-it-work/
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      12-04-2017, 05:45 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by pustinek View Post
I feel like a lot of negativity towards the new M5 is just unjustified until some proper reviews come out.
There's always a ton of negativity when a new BMW is released. Same old every year.
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      12-04-2017, 05:46 AM   #48
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      12-04-2017, 06:55 AM   #49
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I might end -up with one.
Now, if they made an M5 wagon....
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      12-04-2017, 07:08 AM   #50
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With this M5, M (for Motorsports) is truly dead

I think the release of this M5 seals the deal for all real owners of M cars.

M (for Motorsports) is dead, my heart sinks seeing this car being launched.

AMG unfortunately have made advances in the last two generations and the brand seems to have discover its own niche with the cars getting more comfortable "in their own skin". AMG knows it is a comfortable street car with luxurious interior, usable power and a fun car to drive. Our definition of fun is noise, steering feel and an exciting engine matted to a strong drive train. With BMW vacating motorsports (no where to be seen at F1, nor are they making competitive GT3 cars) - BMW M is truly losing its identity in the market place - what does M stand for? Marketing? Mass Production?

I used to make fun of people driving AMG cars back in 2007 - because our E92 was so much more agile, engine was filled with character, 6MT was offered and DCT was aggressive. Now - I think it might be the opposite.

How is this M5 any different from a 550 M-sport sport (as a concept)?
The engine is a modification of the previous 4.4 L engine from F10 M5, the gearbox has "de-proved" by moving away from DCT to Auto, the steering has always been disappointing since the previous F10 M5 (fine.. it is excusable for me as it is a sedan).

M to me always meant more car than the money - it was not about pure profits and mass production efficiency through platform/engine sharing, BMW should (and deserves) to make majority of their profits in regular 3, 5, 7 series. M cars were always meant to be a HALO car, an aspirational brand, starting from the original S14 engine of E30 filled with character, the specially designed 4.0L V8 S65 of the E92, the cartoon like wheel arches of the 1M, car enthusiast always respected the M brand as a car built without compromises and M cars were always comfortable with the shoes it has to fill - now, there's no longer a spirit of owning an M car.

I currently own E30 M3, 1M, E92 M3, F10 M5 - I really hope I will buy another M car one day, but at the direction they are going, I am not so sure it will happen anytime soon.
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      12-04-2017, 07:09 AM   #51
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The Car Buzz article also had good things to say about the steering. Overall I think this will be a great car technically and the AWD will bring more buyers into the fold. Biggest downside I see is it doesn't seem as aggressive design wise.
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      12-04-2017, 07:15 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonFibre View Post
Here's a Canadian review of the F90:

http://www.canadianautoreview.ca/rev...18-bmw-m5.html

They also put up a pretty great exhaust note video for those of you wondering what this new M5 sounds like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI2W...ature=youtu.be
Awesome find
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      12-04-2017, 07:16 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
I think the release of this M5 seals the deal for all real owners of M cars.

M (for Motorsports) is dead, my heart sinks seeing this car being launched.

AMG unfortunately have made advances in the last two generations and the brand seems to have discover its own niche with the cars getting more comfortable "in their own skin". AMG knows it is a comfortable street car with luxurious interior, usable power and a fun car to drive. Our definition of fun is noise, steering feel and an exciting engine matted to a strong drive train. With BMW vacating motorsports (no where to be seen at F1, nor are they making competitive GT3 cars) - BMW M is truly losing its identity in the market place - what does M stand for? Marketing? Mass Production?

I used to make fun of people driving AMG cars back in 2007 - because our E92 was so much more agile, engine was filled with character, 6MT was offered and DCT was aggressive. Now - I think it might be the opposite.

How is this M5 any different from a 550 M-sport sport (as a concept)?
The engine is a modification of the previous 4.4 L engine from F10 M5, the gearbox has "de-proved" by moving away from DCT to Auto, the steering has always been disappointing since the previous F10 M5 (fine.. it is excusable for me as it is a sedan).

M to me always meant more car than the money - it was not about pure profits and mass production efficiency through platform/engine sharing, BMW should (and deserves) to make majority of their profits in regular 3, 5, 7 series. M cars were always meant to be a HALO car, an aspirational brand, starting from the original S14 engine of E30 filled with character, the specially designed 4.0L V8 S65 of the E92, the cartoon like wheel arches of the 1M, car enthusiast always respected the M brand as a car built without compromises and M cars were always comfortable with the shoes it has to fill - now, there's no longer a spirit of owning an M car.

I currently own E30 M3, 1M, E92 M3, F10 M5 - I really hope I will buy another M car one day, but at the direction they are going, I am not so sure it will happen anytime soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
I think the release of this M5 seals the deal for all real owners of M cars.

M (for Motorsports) is dead, my heart sinks seeing this car being launched.

AMG unfortunately have made advances in the last two generations and the brand seems to have discover its own niche with the cars getting more comfortable "in their own skin". AMG knows it is a comfortable street car with luxurious interior, usable power and a fun car to drive. Our definition of fun is noise, steering feel and an exciting engine matted to a strong drive train. With BMW vacating motorsports (no where to be seen at F1, nor are they making competitive GT3 cars) - BMW M is truly losing its identity in the market place - what does M stand for? Marketing? Mass Production?

I used to make fun of people driving AMG cars back in 2007 - because our E92 was so much more agile, engine was filled with character, 6MT was offered and DCT was aggressive. Now - I think it might be the opposite.

How is this M5 any different from a 550 M-sport sport (as a concept)?
The engine is a modification of the previous 4.4 L engine from F10 M5, the gearbox has "de-proved" by moving away from DCT to Auto, the steering has always been disappointing since the previous F10 M5 (fine.. it is excusable for me as it is a sedan).

M to me always meant more car than the money - it was not about pure profits and mass production efficiency through platform/engine sharing, BMW should (and deserves) to make majority of their profits in regular 3, 5, 7 series. M cars were always meant to be a HALO car, an aspirational brand, starting from the original S14 engine of E30 filled with character, the specially designed 4.0L V8 S65 of the E92, the cartoon like wheel arches of the 1M, car enthusiast always respected the M brand as a car built without compromises and M cars were always comfortable with the shoes it has to fill - now, there's no longer a spirit of owning an M car.

I currently own E30 M3, 1M, E92 M3, F10 M5 - I really hope I will buy another M car one day, but at the direction they are going, I am not so sure it will happen anytime soon.
Which is your favorite out of all them? Is the 1M as amazing as everyone says it is?
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      12-04-2017, 07:26 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoosTonian View Post
I find it funny how everyone is talking about fixes for the car in the higher performing versions...why bother releasing an m5 then?
Marketing and Sales 101, its a business model. Just as Porsche does with the 911 or Ford does with the F-150.

The car market isn't what it was 10yrs ago when you did you best right out the gate as everything was mechanical which would be costly. Now everything is computer this and computer that, you want to add 100hp just tune it, you don't like the diff how it acts tune it.

Last edited by DocWeatherington; 12-04-2017 at 07:34 AM..
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      12-04-2017, 07:29 AM   #55
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I own a M6 Gran Coupe and instead of opting to wait for this new M5 F90, I opted for the W213 E 63 AMG S. It is pretty obvious that as far as performance goes, these two cars are pretty much identical. The difference in acceleration is minimal, and the difference in handling is probably next to zero. I still think the E 63 is probably a slight brush faster than the M5 F90 (considering it was faster in all metric acceleration from 100-200, 100-250, 100-300 comparing to the M5 30Jahre) but the difference is definitely minimal.

The M5 F90 is 20kg lighter (Pano Roof vs Pano Roof) and 30kg lighter (Carbon Roof vs non Pano Roof on the E), but other than that hardware is pretty much the same. Steering Feel, from reviews the E 63 got more praise than the M5 at the launch but it is probably very similar. The 4WD of both have been praised a lot, although it has been said the E 63 has more a RWD car feel on the road than the M5, grip is probably identical too. And although reviews are saying the M5 F90 feels slightly faster on track, it is hard to compare when you are not directly driving both cars, as conditions vary, and they were tested at different tracks. The only thing we can conclude is which will be more visceral and fun to drive. And I am sorry, but the E 63 S probably takes the cake. It has better sound, the engine is more rev-hungry, the transmission is a tad quicker (and since it has shorter ratios, you can explore the revs more often), and the suspension although a little stiffer (this is controversial though, some reviews said it is better, other said it is worse), both probably ride about the same.

The E 63 S is probably the better fun car to buy. The M5 F90 is probably the slightly quicker car on racetrack in England on a cold day (by 0,1s). Basically saying the new M5 F90 although great is a disappointment, because before AMG cars although loud and fun, did not have the poise and accuracy to match an M car. Today though AMG cars are pretty much neck a neck with M cars in terms of driving, and BMW M has not been able to play the AMG Game of being fun when you are not 10/10's.

This is my 2 cents. I feel that when comparos come in, it is going to be pretty much 50-50 both side, because it all depends on what the reviewer cares more. A car that gets the job done with no drama, or one with the drama.

The worst part is BMW M had nearly an year to perfect and finetune the car after the launch of the E 63 S, but apparently that wasn't enough.
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      12-04-2017, 07:34 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
BMW have had near on 7-8 years to get electric steering feel sorted since the switch from hydraulic. If it was going to be sorted it would have been for this release. I suspect the need to have a lighter feel for a heavy car in non-spirited daily driving is taking precedence.

Porsche (from what I've read) seem to be the only company who've nailed feel from EPS. Might I suggest BMW buy a few and work out how (?)
Actually, they’ve had EPS since the first Z4 in 2003, so more like 15 years. When people say “they’re still figuring it out” that’s some BS.
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      12-04-2017, 07:37 AM   #57
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I feel like today BMW M sees speed as commodity, and it tries to sell the most of it possible through its products. There is no sense that they are trying to make a car fun, there is just the sense that they are trying to make it go super-duper fast. It is great when you are driving 10/10's but how often do you drive a car like this 10/10's?
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      12-04-2017, 07:38 AM   #58
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The other thing people in the Vs E63S is that the S is the upgraded version just as the M5 vs M5 CP is upgraded.

M5 vs E63
M5cp vs E63s

Again people are rushing to judgement, I think we need to wait it out until better non scripted reviews come out.
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      12-04-2017, 07:39 AM   #59
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The M5 CP doesn't come to Latin American countries. It is not sold on the African continent and on many Asian countries too. Therefore I am basing it on what I can buy, not on eventually what is better between the two.

The M5 F10 CP I know that it is far better than the M5 F10, but I only had the M5 F10 here because there is no CP cars for sale. Probably BMW M doesn't care about losing sales due to this, as the market is pretty minimal anyway.
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      12-04-2017, 07:44 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Actually, they’ve had EPS since the first Z4 in 2003, so more like 15 years. When people say “they’re still figuring it out” that’s some BS.


BMW could make killer EPS, could make a super car. But they don't as its a business case. 90% of people don't care about it, hopefully with this generation BMW will in the higher trims give its hardcore customer what it wants. Unfortunately the Honda "civic base" M5 is the base for this generation and I think they did a great job. Now will I buy it nope, I will wait for the CP.
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      12-04-2017, 08:00 AM   #61
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First time in M5 history they are reusing essentially the same engine -__-

Plus, this body isn't a big step away from the F10.. i bet to many normal people, they are the same car..

Someone can get a hell of a deal on a F10 M5 CP before getting this..

By far, the least exciting M5 debut in history

F80 M3 it is then..
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      12-04-2017, 08:03 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
The M5 CP doesn't come to Latin American countries. It is not sold on the African continent and on many Asian countries too. Therefore I am basing it on what I can buy, not on eventually what is better between the two.

The M5 F10 CP I know that it is far better than the M5 F10, but I only had the M5 F10 here because there is no CP cars for sale. Probably BMW M doesn't care about losing sales due to this, as the market is pretty minimal anyway.
Yeah probably a market trend, its unfortunate
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      12-04-2017, 08:10 AM   #63
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Yeah probably a market trend, its unfortunate
It is funny because everyhwere in the world AMG offers the S versions. Here in Brazil all AMG's are the S version with the exception of the GLEs, nevertheless BMW does not offer CP for any car. The CP cars that do eventually come (we have 2 M5 F10 CPs here) are from BMW executives living here, or from the owner of the biggest BMW branch of dealers here. Therefore it is not a general option for the buyers.
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      12-04-2017, 08:19 AM   #64
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Shmee review is out
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      12-04-2017, 09:12 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocWeatherington View Post
Yeah probably a market trend, its unfortunate
It is funny because everyhwere in the world AMG offers the S versions. Here in Brazil all AMG's are the S version with the exception of the GLEs, nevertheless BMW does not offer CP for any car. The CP cars that do eventually come (we have 2 M5 F10 CPs here) are from BMW executives living here, or from the owner of the biggest BMW branch of dealers here. Therefore it is not a general option for the buyers.
You are right, but for some reason (maybe end of lifecycle boost or something), there is a CP M5 for sale here in Brasilia @eurobike.
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      12-04-2017, 09:20 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS View Post
You are right, but for some reason (maybe end of lifecycle boost or something), there is a CP M5 for sale here in Brasilia @eurobike.
It is owned by the owner of Eurobike.
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