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      02-14-2020, 11:36 AM   #67
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Just an FYI, The revel systems in the new Lincolns are probably the best ive ever heard by a long shot. Almost bought an MKZ a few years ago because of it. Speaking more to the upgraded ones rather than the base revel systems.
That's the one I have in my Navigator, and it is really impressive to my untrained pedestrian ears lol
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      02-14-2020, 11:41 AM   #68
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Just an FYI, The revel systems in the new Lincolns are probably the best ive ever heard by a long shot. Almost bought an MKZ a few years ago because of it. Speaking more to the upgraded ones rather than the base revel systems.
That's the one I have in my Navigator, and it is really impressive to my untrained pedestrian ears lol
Yea man, the newer bigger suvs sound crazy. You have the higher model revel system or the entry one?
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      02-15-2020, 12:59 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by ResidualJinx View Post
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Originally Posted by sittingmongoose View Post
Just an FYI, The revel systems in the new Lincolns are probably the best ive ever heard by a long shot. Almost bought an MKZ a few years ago because of it. Speaking more to the upgraded ones rather than the base revel systems.
That's the one I have in my Navigator, and it is really impressive to my untrained pedestrian ears lol
Yea man, the newer bigger suvs sound crazy. You have the higher model revel system or the entry one?
Black label with the upgraded 20-speaker Revel Ultima system.
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      03-11-2020, 06:53 AM   #70
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Coming from a number of Porsches with Bose systems, I’m loving my HK in my M5.
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      03-11-2020, 07:09 AM   #71
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Coming from a number of Porsches with Bose systems, I’m loving my HK in my M5.
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      03-29-2020, 08:47 AM   #72
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I will be the first to agree. My wife has a VOLVO xc60 with B&W upgrade speakers and my M5C has the B&W upgrade system as well. I can tell you first hand experience there is a massive difference in the clarity and overall sound in the two. Not sure if the Volvo has a better processor but her stereo is the best I have ever heard no BS. Then I get in mine and I have to hear "MY VOLVO IS BETTER" every time. Lol of course I just smash the gas and she stop comparing but still. WTF BMW half the price better quality speakers hands down in a VOLVO?!? You dropped the ball
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      03-29-2020, 01:43 PM   #73
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After several attempts to find good equalizer settings for the Bowers & Wilkins system in my 2019 M5 I asked a friend of a friend who is a very well-known recording engineer to take a shot at it. He has helped designed sound for multiple home theaters for his friends and is very well versed in acoustical settings. I really enjoyed the Bang & Olufsen system in my 2016 M5, so this Bowers & Wilkins system has been very disappointing as we all know, especially the Bass. I told him about the B & O system so I suggested we also have him listen to my friend’s 2015 M5 with the B & O. Then I contacted another guy I know who has a 2020 M5 Comp with the Harmon Kardon, so we had all 3 there for him to try out. (Can’t believe I didn’t take a picture of the 3 together??) I played him some music I have on my ITouch (which is all downloaded from CD’s using Apple Lossless) on all 3 cars and let him play with the settings. We both heard a big difference between all 3 cars as did my friends. We all agreed the 2015 M5 with the B & O was better overall than the B & W with the HK being the worst of the 3. He brought out his RTA and started playing some kind of pink noise. He then made some adjustments and played some more music on my ITouch (some of which he actually engineered himself) in all 3 cars. He said we really need to change the EQ settings when we change the music style Jazz/Rock/R & B etc…… His opinion was BMW gave Bowers & Wilkins specs of what room they had in the doors and Bowers delivered the speakers with very little testing in the 5 series, which is not a very good acoustical environment and would be a challenge. I have been noticing the F90’s doors seem much lighter than the F10 M5 so was wondering if that is changing the sound a bit. He also questioned whether the Subs buried in the floor boards below the front seats are weak or being held back due to power constraints, or that BMW did not use amps that had the power Bowers wanted. We all agreed the Bowers speakers did present better accuracy & detail for voice and instruments than the B & O, but thought the B & O system was a much better overall setup in the F10 than we have with the Bowers & Wilkins in the F90 with the HK at the bottom of the 3. All of us left with better settings than we had, so that was great. This is my 4th M5 so hoping the next generation has a better sound system in it. Are you listening BMW ??
Can you please post pictures of your EQ....
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      10-14-2020, 03:22 AM   #74
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Just joined the M5 club and went for the B&W system - WHAT a disappointment. Good clarity but no soundstage, no fullness and what little bass there is is ill defined and muddy. Can't believe I paid several thousand dollars for this. They completely dropped the ball. The HK system I had on my 2015 530d was better.
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      10-15-2020, 09:33 PM   #75
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Agreed. Super disappointing I love bass heavy EDM and my M5 with B&W sounds awful
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      10-16-2020, 08:21 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Sabeto View Post
Just joined the M5 club and went for the B&W system - WHAT a disappointment. Good clarity but no soundstage, no fullness and what little bass there is is ill defined and muddy. Can't believe I paid several thousand dollars for this. They completely dropped the ball. The HK system I had on my 2015 530d was better.
I donno what setting u have set but it sounds better than my Maserati B&W and C63S Burmester. Set sound setting to Movie, bass and treble all the way up and equalizer starting from left to right starting all the way up and go down one to two click down each equalizer to the right till middle (half way or little higher) and start going up again until all the way back up to last equalizer to the right. Also move balance to 2-3 clicks rear and see if it's better.
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      10-17-2020, 03:32 PM   #77
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Alright guys, I finally got around to taking some measurements of the B&W system in my 2020 M5 Comp.

Just for some background, I am a longtime car audio sound quality competitor/enthusiast. I have many years of experience with acoustic measurements inside of cars, and with tuning car audio systems to maximize performance.



For the measurements I used a 5 microphone array and SysTune Pro software. The reason for 5 microphones is because the interior of a car is a highly reflective acoustic environment. Reflected sound can cause serious comb filtering anomalies when using a single microphone. Instead, we want to collect a "spatial average" where measurements are taken from a few points inside the car and then averaged together to remove any single-location cancellations that might occur. In other words, inside of a car you might get one reading with a mic in one location, but you move the mic 12 inches left or right and you might get a different reading.


Unfortunately, the B&W audio system does not offer an AUX input. Without an external source input for the system I could only collect magnitude and frequency data. If I could have run my measurement signal from my computer into the B&W system, then I could have also collected timing data which gives us a lot more information on things like delays, phase and speaker polarities.


I set up the microphones around the driver's head location in the car. 5 mics surrounding the headrest area. I was treating this like a tuning session for a single seat location tune which is the more common approach to high-end car audio. When we are talking about the top sound quality cars in the country, most people have set them up to sound best from a single seat location because this is easier and generally produces better results. With a single-seat tune we can use DSP to correct for imperfect speaker install locations by using time delays on some speakers. We delay the speakers that are closer to the listener than the other speakers so that all of the sound arrives at the listener at the same time, despite them sitting to one corner of the car. I have assembled a microphone stand that holds the microphones around the area that the driver's head would occupy while seated in the car. By doing this I am able to get 5 microphone locations recorded simultaneously and the SysTune software will average them together and provide the results.


Since I could not run an audio signal into the car from my computer, I had to rely on a standard pink noise audio file. In this case is was an uncorrelated pink noise from 20 Hz to 20kHz.

You can see the result in the attached image.

There is a general downward slope from the bass region to the upper frequencies. This is actually a good thing because cars are very different than homes or concert halls. In a car, we need for the bass to be significantly louder than the higher frequencies due to the small size of the listening space and the highly reflective nature of the surfaces. A perfectly flat acoustic spectrum inside of a car will not sound good. The bass will sound thin, and the highs will sound overly bright and harsh. So a downward slope like we see here is quite common.

In this case, there is about a 10 decibel reduction in output from 30 Hz to 1000 Hz, and then another 5 dB reduction from 1000 Hz to 16 kHz. This is very similar to how many sound quality competitors will tune their cars, at least as far as tonality is concerned.

There is a sharp dip in the response at about 140 Hz. I attempted to correct this dip with some EQ boost, but the EQ bands offered were 100 and 200. So I tried boosting 100 Hz in the B&W EQ. See the chart with the blue line which represents the measurement of the car afrer boosting 100Hz. Notice how the overall level increased but the sharp dip at 140 Hz is still there? It turns out that this dip in response is being caused by a cancellation. That means that the speakers in the car are fighting with each other at the driver seat in the 140 Hz range, and there is an acoustic cancellation happening in that location. This causes the response to dip and unfortunately this cannot be corrected with EQ. The way to fix this would be to adjust the speaker delays or crossover points. Those are both options we do not have available to us with the B&W. A modern, aftermarket DSP would allow us to correct those things and we could probably fix this issue. But there is no way to fix it with the B&W system.

I attached a picture of the results when I added some boost to the 100 Hz EQ in the B&W DSP. You will see that the overall level in that region was boosted, but the sharp dip in response at 140 Hz still remains. I do not recommend boosting this EQ band because we don't get any benefit and the EQ boost will actually drive the speakers into distortion sooner. Think of it like an imaginary car with a top speed limit set to 150 mph. Imagine that you could drive the engine hard enough to go 200 mph, but the electronic limit is set at 150 regardless. So in this case you would be pushing the engine harder than the car could possibly go. You try to go faster but it just isn't possible. When we have a cancellation like this it's the same thing. No amount of EQ boost is going to fill in that dip, but every click of EQ boost will cause distortion to go up. So we don't want to use it here. There is no benefit, and we might actually make things sound worse.

Higher up in the 300 Hz to 4000 Hz range there is some peakiness in places. For example, there are peaks at 1100 Hz, and 3000 Hz. With a good aftermarket DSP I could use an EQ to bring these peaks down, but I don't think the B&W EQ has enough precision to correct these.



None of the above information touches on the other aspects of sound quality like imaging and soundstage. Since I could not run my computer audio into the car, I was not able to get timing data to analyze speaker arrival times.

When I have more time, I will post some of my listening evaluation of the imaging and soundstage. Spoiler-alert, but these aspects are quite poor in the B&W system from my listening thus far. But I would like to do a formal and objective evaluation of that in the future.


Anyway, that's all I feel like writing about it at the moment.





Cliffs Notes:

1. The overall tonal response is mostly smooth, with a 15 decibel gradual slope from the bass region to the treble. That kind of slope to the response is considered desirable in the car audio world.

2. There is a cancellation at 140 Hz which is being caused by the speaker locations and the car's geometry. This null cannot be fixed with EQ, so boosting EQ in the 100 Hz section of the B&W EQ is not recommended as a solution.

3. Upper frequencies are generally well-balanced with only minor peaks in a few places, like 1100 Hz and 3000 Hz.
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      10-17-2020, 04:17 PM   #78
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Now that's what I'm talking about. So basically don't mess with the EQ and no matter what the audio is meh is the TL;DR?
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      10-17-2020, 09:17 PM   #79
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Now that's what I'm talking about. So basically don't mess with the EQ and no matter what the audio is meh is the TL;DR?

Pretty much.

The TLDR is that the tonality is decent, but there is a serious issue in the lower midbass region that can't be fixed with the B&W DSP tools available.



I will post some of the measurements from my aftermarket systems for comparison sake. You will see how much can be done when you have a fully active system with DSP control on each channel.
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      10-22-2020, 04:05 PM   #80
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I donno what setting u have set but it sounds better than my Maserati B&W and C63S Burmester. Set sound setting to Movie, bass and treble all the way up and equalizer starting from left to right starting all the way up and go down one to two click down each equalizer to the right till middle (half way or little higher) and start going up again until all the way back up to last equalizer to the right. Also move balance to 2-3 clicks rear and see if it's better.
I agree the settings you have described do help a bit (although I prefer the "stage" setting) but the system still sounds barely as a good as any $300 bluetooth speaker. And in its default settings, sounds as bad as my laptop. Never again will I buy one of these "premium" systems without auditioning it first.
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      10-22-2020, 04:08 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Sabeto View Post
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I donno what setting u have set but it sounds better than my Maserati B&W and C63S Burmester. Set sound setting to Movie, bass and treble all the way up and equalizer starting from left to right starting all the way up and go down one to two click down each equalizer to the right till middle (half way or little higher) and start going up again until all the way back up to last equalizer to the right. Also move balance to 2-3 clicks rear and see if it's better.
I agree the settings you have described do help a bit (although I prefer the "stage" setting) but the system still sounds barely as a good as any $300 bluetooth speaker. And in its default settings, sounds as bad as my laptop. Never again will I buy one of these "premium" systems without auditioning it first.
Also play some base heavy songs atleast halfway volume or more so the subs can open up a bit. Make sure Treble and bass is all way up. I have noticed once the system opens up a bit it does get better.
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      10-23-2020, 05:47 PM   #82
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Also play some base heavy songs atleast halfway volume or more so the subs can open up a bit. Make sure Treble and bass is all way up. I have noticed once the system opens up a bit it does get better.
Okay I may have been a bit hasty in my criticism.

After running it hard for a couple of weeks, and adopting the settings suggested GTATX above the sound is definitely opening up and becoming a bit more expansive with fuller bass. I still wouldn't say I'm exactly impressed; but..... we're starting to get into the ballpark.
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      10-23-2020, 06:17 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabeto View Post
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Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
I donno what setting u have set but it sounds better than my Maserati B&W and C63S Burmester. Set sound setting to Movie, bass and treble all the way up and equalizer starting from left to right starting all the way up and go down one to two click down each equalizer to the right till middle (half way or little higher) and start going up again until all the way back up to last equalizer to the right. Also move balance to 2-3 clicks rear and see if it's better.
I agree the settings you have described do help a bit (although I prefer the "stage" setting) but the system still sounds barely as a good as any $300 bluetooth speaker. And in its default settings, sounds as bad as my laptop. Never again will I buy one of these "premium" systems without auditioning it first.
Also play some base heavy songs atleast halfway volume or more so the subs can open up a bit. Make sure Treble and bass is all way up. I have noticed once the system opens up a bit it does get better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabeto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
Also play some base heavy songs atleast halfway volume or more so the subs can open up a bit. Make sure Treble and bass is all way up. I have noticed once the system opens up a bit it does get better.
Okay I may have been a bit hasty in my criticism.

After running it hard for a couple of weeks, and adopting the settings suggested GTATX above the sound is definitely opening up and becoming a bit more expansive with fuller bass. I still wouldn't say I'm exactly impressed; but..... we're starting to get into the ballpark.

Would you guys mind taking a picture of your audio and equalizer settings?
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      10-23-2020, 06:18 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ck00 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabeto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
I donno what setting u have set but it sounds better than my Maserati B&W and C63S Burmester. Set sound setting to Movie, bass and treble all the way up and equalizer starting from left to right starting all the way up and go down one to two click down each equalizer to the right till middle (half way or little higher) and start going up again until all the way back up to last equalizer to the right. Also move balance to 2-3 clicks rear and see if it's better.
I agree the settings you have described do help a bit (although I prefer the "stage" setting) but the system still sounds barely as a good as any $300 bluetooth speaker. And in its default settings, sounds as bad as my laptop. Never again will I buy one of these "premium" systems without auditioning it first.
Also play some base heavy songs atleast halfway volume or more so the subs can open up a bit. Make sure Treble and bass is all way up. I have noticed once the system opens up a bit it does get better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabeto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
Also play some base heavy songs atleast halfway volume or more so the subs can open up a bit. Make sure Treble and bass is all way up. I have noticed once the system opens up a bit it does get better.
Okay I may have been a bit hasty in my criticism.

After running it hard for a couple of weeks, and adopting the settings suggested GTATX above the sound is definitely opening up and becoming a bit more expansive with fuller bass. I still wouldn't say I'm exactly impressed; but..... we're starting to get into the ballpark.

Would you guys mind taking a picture of your audio and equalizer settings?
I will once home. Thx
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      10-23-2020, 11:12 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ck00 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabeto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
I donno what setting u have set but it sounds better than my Maserati B&W and C63S Burmester. Set sound setting to Movie, bass and treble all the way up and equalizer starting from left to right starting all the way up and go down one to two click down each equalizer to the right till middle (half way or little higher) and start going up again until all the way back up to last equalizer to the right. Also move balance to 2-3 clicks rear and see if it's better.
I agree the settings you have described do help a bit (although I prefer the "stage" setting) but the system still sounds barely as a good as any $300 bluetooth speaker. And in its default settings, sounds as bad as my laptop. Never again will I buy one of these "premium" systems without auditioning it first.
Also play some base heavy songs atleast halfway volume or more so the subs can open up a bit. Make sure Treble and bass is all way up. I have noticed once the system opens up a bit it does get better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabeto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTATX View Post
Also play some base heavy songs atleast halfway volume or more so the subs can open up a bit. Make sure Treble and bass is all way up. I have noticed once the system opens up a bit it does get better.
Okay I may have been a bit hasty in my criticism.

After running it hard for a couple of weeks, and adopting the settings suggested GTATX above the sound is definitely opening up and becoming a bit more expansive with fuller bass. I still wouldn't say I'm exactly impressed; but..... we're starting to get into the ballpark.

Would you guys mind taking a picture of your audio and equalizer settings?
Here u go with equalizer n my M colors lol. Thx
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      10-24-2020, 12:31 AM   #86
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Thank you much! I'm gonna use your settings, including the ambience lighting combo too!
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      10-24-2020, 12:53 AM   #87
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Thank you much! I'm gonna use your settings, including the ambience lighting combo too!
Remember to play some heavy bass songs close to half volume or more for some time for subs to open up a bit.
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      10-26-2020, 10:51 AM   #88
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I concur the HK system is complete pants, I have own many different brands of cars and Jaguar/LandRover has always had the best sounding systems as stock, their B&W system was amazing and their latest Meridian systems are even better.

Coming from a 740d with its BMW system I actually rate it far superior to the HK system in my M5. Plus the way it faded front to rear is the oddest of things.

One thing I will say in its favour is that with more people in the car it does start to sound better, just a shame it didn’t offer a driver only time alignment mode.
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