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      01-19-2021, 08:36 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyndi335I View Post
LOL.... I guess I won't waste my time coming to a meet up with my fake M performance car knowing what you true M guys really think of me and what I can afford. SMH:
I would buy an M340 and have no issue with the people that buy them, just with BMW for giving it this name and putting it in the "M" group.

With every 340 now being an "M", I don't follow what is so special about it. Then the adaptive suspension, extra engine cooling, high performance tires are still an option. If I owned it I would call it what I think it is, a 340.
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      01-19-2021, 08:41 AM   #46
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As the current owner of 4 "true" M cars I must LOL at the " snobbery" shown in this post! Hahahaha. More options are rarely bad. If you don't like a particular car, don't buy it but I doubt the addition of the M340 effected the value of my 1M at all. Likely just the opposite. It seems like many of these "M Options" simply introduce new drivers to the quality and thrills we all enjoy.
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      01-19-2021, 08:55 AM   #47
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thats a big number.
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      01-19-2021, 08:57 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
As the current owner of 4 "true" M cars I must LOL at the " snobbery" shown in this post! Hahahaha. More options are rarely bad. If you don't like a particular car, don't buy it but I doubt the addition of the M340 effected the value of my 1M at all. Likely just the opposite. It seems like many of these "M Options" simply introduce new drivers to the quality and thrills we all enjoy.
Its not about being M snobs.. at least it wasnt for me who started the conversation. It was about manipulating the sales numbers.
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      01-19-2021, 09:04 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Its not about being M snobs.. at least it wasnt for me who started the conversation. It was about manipulating the sales numbers.
I have to agree here. I could care less that an M235i exists. But to count it as an M car is ridiculous. .
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      01-19-2021, 09:15 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by DanG View Post
I have to agree here. I could care less that an M235i exists. But to count it as an M car is ridiculous. .
If it isn't about the label on the trunk, why does it matter so much which bucket it falls into?

BMW didn't invent the game. Mercedes and Audi also the play it well (and so do others - not so well), and in fact they beat BMW to the punch on this little trick.

Of all the things to be hung up on and righteous about, I just don't see why this matters in the grand scheme. It's not like it's changing the total since, as you point out, the M235i exists either way. It registers as a sale for BMW regardless of how you count it.
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      01-19-2021, 09:39 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
If it isn't about the label on the trunk, why does it matter so much which bucket it falls into?

BMW didn't invent the game. Mercedes and Audi also the play it well (and so do others - not so well), and in fact they beat BMW to the punch on this little trick.

Of all the things to be hung up on and righteous about, I just don't see why this matters in the grand scheme. It's not like it's changing the total since, as you point out, the M235i exists either way. It registers as a sale for BMW regardless of how you count it.
BMW created the "M" and with it sold us on why it is special and premium, above the rest of the lineup, most a unique engine, suspension, brakes, exterior design changes, with it came compromises for performance. Now they decided to cash out on it with the only reasons being increased sales. It doesn't matter to you and this is also ok. The "M" has become a worthless letter that has almost zero substance. Ferrari could decide to cash out and build a line of economy cars, same arguments could be made that it doesn't matter as long as the high end cars are still there. I feel the same about a $52k base Porsche Macan, good for their bottom line, makes me think less of their brand.

My issue is not where the sale is recorded but on brand dilution.

I never understand the argument that the others also did it so it is ok. I have never owned an AMG, at this point I don't think I even care about the "AMG" as it is likely just as worthless as the "M".
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      01-19-2021, 09:42 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
If it isn't about the label on the trunk, why does it matter so much which bucket it falls into?

BMW didn't invent the game. Mercedes and Audi also the play it well (and so do others - not so well), and in fact they beat BMW to the punch on this little trick.

Of all the things to be hung up on and righteous about, I just don't see why this matters in the grand scheme. It's not like it's changing the total since, as you point out, the M235i exists either way. It registers as a sale for BMW regardless of how you count it.
I cant reply to this the way I want without possibly getting banned for grill comments.
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      01-19-2021, 09:55 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
My issue is not where the sale is recorded but on brand dilution.
Sure. I wasn't addressing that position, however (and have no comment on it). I was specifically asking the other forum member why he cares how the numbers are added up since he stated that he was not bothered by the existence of the M235i.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I cant reply to this the way I want without possibly getting banned for grill comments.
Extremely unlikely. However, considering the question I posed, aesthetics aren't on topic, so such a comment wouldn't make sense in context. Therefore, it's probably good that you opted not to respond in that way, since deliberately derailing threads isn't very nice.
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      01-19-2021, 09:59 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Sure. I wasn't addressing that position, however (and have no comment on it). I was specifically asking the other forum member why he cares how the numbers are added up since he stated that he was not bothered by the existence of the M235i.
i am not bothered by the existance of the M235... its probably a good car that competes with an Audi S3... although it looks very goofy.

What I am bothered by is the fact that is now marketed by BMW M and even posted on their fb and insta page... this does a great diservice to the brand and its loyal owners when we both know that car has nothing to do with M... its a fwd biased crossover based car lol...
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      01-19-2021, 10:01 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Sure. I wasn't addressing that position, however (and have no comment on it). I was specifically asking the other forum member why he cares how the numbers are added up since he stated that he was not bothered by the existence of the M235i.



Extremely unlikely. However, considering the question I posed, aesthetics aren't on topic, so such a comment wouldn't make sense in context. Therefore, it's probably good that you opted not to respond in that way, since deliberately derailing threads isn't very nice.
Actually without going into details I feel its a way for BMW to justify the new aesthetics with sales numbers of “M cars” when Im already seeing less demand for new M cars where I live. Especially when these new “M cars” don't yet suffer from said aesthetics.
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      01-19-2021, 10:16 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
i am not bothered by the existance of the M235...
What I am bothered by is the fact that is now marketed by BMW M
Ok well I suppose this is just a question of semantics then. To me, the existence of the M235i naturally dictates that it is marketed by BMW M.

Even the M Sport models are marketed by M, although sales of that trim level don't count toward the M total for what that's worth (and for those closely keeping score).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Actually without going into details I feel its a way for BMW to justify the new aesthetics with sales numbers of “M cars” when Im already seeing less demand for new M cars where I live. Especially when these new “M cars” don't yet suffer from said aesthetics.
I'm genuinely not following you at all, sorry. Either way, anecdotes don't mean much in the real world. Data typically does a better job of telling the story.

It seems to me that a significant number of folks hoping for BMW, and in particular, BMW M sales to tank in 2021 are in for disappointment. There is a huge contingent of buyers looking for tangible features such as a high performance German sedan with a manual transmission, and BMW has the only one now. AWD high performance vehicles are also in high demand, and BMW is building the portfolio there too.
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      01-19-2021, 11:35 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Well, thanks to BMW marketing dept., a person driving a FWD-based M235i Gran Coupe can now say, "Hey, I drive an M car, too!" 🤦🏻*♂️
My thoughts exactly, if they included anything with an "M" badge then yes of course you sold this many "M" cars
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      01-19-2021, 12:31 PM   #58
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Hey BMW! An "M car" is sold by "BMW M", and has a vin that starts with "WBS", the end! You can't count cars like the M340i, those cars were manufactured by "BMW" not "BMW M" and are therefore not "BMW M cars".

Frustration aside, of course it's easy to inflate your sales figures when you just slap a badge on nearly every single car you have, nothing has been achieved here... God knows what's happening at BMW these days, with all those fwd "m CaRs" and the cringey ads with a Lamborghini/Audi V10 dubbing the M2 CS' noise, I hope leadership changes will make the brand go back in the right direction of making cars that are fantastic to drive like they used to.
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      01-19-2021, 12:43 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
As the current owner of 4 "true" M cars I must LOL at the " snobbery" shown in this post! Hahahaha. More options are rarely bad. If you don't like a particular car, don't buy it but I doubt the addition of the M340 effected the value of my 1M at all. Likely just the opposite. It seems like many of these "M Options" simply introduce new drivers to the quality and thrills we all enjoy.
No snobbery really.

I've owned

M2/3/4
M235i/X3M40D/M135i/X5M50D

So a fair bit of both.

I've zero problem with the M lites existing clearly as I own them and my current car is the M135i.

However to claim amazing sales figures by moving the goal posts to include the top tier normal series production cars. Hmm, it's fine but that's all we're saying, not knocking the cars or being a snob the statistic massaging though.... Personally I do not and will not consider any of my M lites I've listed as an M car.

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      01-19-2021, 01:02 PM   #60
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Great way to grow your sales move the 340i and 440i into the M division so you can say look how many we sold!

Just about every model line that used to have a range topping non M car has had it replaced by putting an M on the front of the variant name M50/M40 etc....it's not snobby to say so either they are all great cars, but when you move the sales of an entire model variant into another segment it's a bit rich to suddenly crow about the sales as it's wooden dollars.
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      01-19-2021, 01:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Its not about being M snobs.. at least it wasnt for me who started the conversation. It was about manipulating the sales numbers.
It's not manipulation of the numbers. The numbers represent M vehicles sold. Most of us realize that there's more M vehicles for sale today therefore this news shouldn't come as a surprise. The reality is no matter what they say people would nitpick as it's the internet after all and nobody's ever happy about anything.

BMW isn't Ferrari. They are a volume automaker and regardless of what you think of say an M235i or M340i those vehicles carry a premium over the regular variants and that premium means more money for BMW when more people buy these cars. At a time where Porsche sells more SUV's than cars surely most of you can understand that even if you don't like it, this is sound decision making as catering solely to purists and enthusiasts is not a way to make profits.
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      01-19-2021, 02:02 PM   #62
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We also want them to look better than the last. Failing hard there.

I really disliked my drive in the F90. It was just so disconnected. Honestly driving these new ZF8 M AWD cars feels like playing Forza on my couch.
You must have a fast couch.
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      01-19-2021, 02:05 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyndi335I View Post
LOL.... I guess I won't waste my time coming to a meet up with my fake M performance car knowing what you true M guys really think of me and what I can afford. SMH:
I haven’t been to a meet up in years but hopefully it’s not as bad as it is on the forums. I have an M340i and would enjoy conversing with other enthusiast of the similar car, previous generation or competitor in my area. I would imagine the individuals who have big ego’s or feel the need to belittle the new M badge cars won’t be at these meetings or would be alone with their car flexing.

The people I have met on this forum are great people though.
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      01-19-2021, 02:07 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by OG///M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
The M community wants each new generation to be faster than the last. We can all agree on that.
I think there's two M communities at play here. The poser centric that wants more power all the time which they barely use and shocking/alienating looks. Then the other side that want reasonable power, great handling and classy yet aggressive looks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
The F chassis cars were at the limit of control with 2-wheel drive when it came to launching. We can agree on that hopefully?
The F cars were at the edge of RWD traction. So how about M focus on making the car lighter while having slight increase in hp/tq and then focus on making the handling/chassis weight balance even better? That is a much more attractive formula than adding a glob more power and add AWD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Therefore, all-wheel drive was inevitable. Hand-to-god, the F90 is the best overall M car I've ever driven, and that breaks just about my every classic M rule.
AWD is not inevitable, it's just the easy and mundane route.
I've also driven the F90 and along with most other people's review, it was more dead and muted comparing to the F10 which was already worse than the E60. Fast in a straight line sure, everything else, you wouldn't even know it's an M car.

If you think that is the best M car you've ever driven, I believe you and some of us have a very different idea of what an M car is supposed to be.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Do I think the new generation is good looking? Not really, but you can't fault them for trying something different.

As for weight goes...what would you have them do? They are handed cars from BMW that already have a Lot of weight.

Light weight is better. Don't buy a sport sedan with a back seat then. But you can't compare an E car with an F or G, it's a different world with different expectations.

As for AWD being inevitable, these cars are going electric soon. I'd just get used to it.

I drove the F90 on track and loved it. I don't think I'm a poser, but who knows.

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      01-19-2021, 05:38 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggedm4F83 View Post
My thoughts exactly, if they included anything with an "M" badge then yes of course you sold this many "M" cars
Just bunch of marketing and PR bs, at the end of the day bean counters speak in the meeting, bean counters decide what gets to manufacture, beat counters win during year end "bean counting" event, it becomes a sad reality. No M true enthusiasts "wanting" an Xdrive on their M3/M4. They did it on the M5, fine. Now they put words in our mouth too? Cmon
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      01-19-2021, 08:25 PM   #66
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G83 = "And the BMW M4 Convertible will also be launched in time for the warm season."

I don't care about a eBay badge on the rear end of a M performance.
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