[Danny D]

I vote for Shawn on the official debate team !

Whatever I throw at him he just throws it right back.

I meant this in a positive fun way, btw, lol.

Eagerly waiting on Shawn reply, .

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

One subject matter I would like to explore more is LSPI with low viscosity oils. The cause of LSPI is still debated — there are several.

I trust these guys. They've always been the backbone of non-BMW "BMW certified" oils.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Danny D

I vote for Shawn on the official debate team !

Whatever I throw at him he just throws it right back.

I meant this in a positive fun way, btw, lol.

Eagerly waiting on Shawn reply, .

It's the way it should be. It's the way we learn. You make some good points.

But, I've already responded to your points. You make good ones, and I don't ALWAYS disagree. You are right under the right circumstances, and we have to recognize them.

Shawn

[Danny D]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

It's the way it should be. It's the way we learn. You make some good points.

But, I've already responded to your points. You make good ones, and I don't ALWAYS disagree. You are right under the right circumstances, and we have to recognize them.

Shawn

Thanks Shawn - I respect your input as well.
The video was informative.

I believe reading though tech material that the F90 has added additional ports and rings in the pistons, what are your thought as to how this helps ? versus the older generation.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Danny D

Thanks Shawn - I respect your input as well.
The video was informative.

I believe reading though tech material that the F90 has added additional ports and rings in the pistons, what are your thought as to how this helps ? versus the older generation.

Good catch. It's more than that (and one of the reasons I say the F90's oil is as specced pretty damn well). BMW has apparently spent A LOT of time (and money) studying oil handling systems for the S63B44T4.

Here's a pretty good comparison to the NON-M V8, and the upgrades...

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...them-the-same/

Additional oil control groove, 8 drain ports compared to 4, and sixteen oil sprayers means they have studied the oil handling EXTENSIVELY. TWO oil pumps and pickups. Additionally, the HUGE volume of oil stabilizes the additive package AND temperature.

Its a big upgrade. Big.

Shawn

[Danny D]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Good catch. It's more than that (and one of the reasons I say the F90's oil is as specced pretty damn well). BMW has apparently spent A LOT of time (and money) studying oil handling systems for the S63B44T4.

Here's a pretty good comparison to the NON-M V8, and the upgrades...

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...them-the-same/

Additional oil control groove, 8 drain ports compared to 4, and sixteen oil sprayers means they have studied the oil handling EXTENSIVELY. TWO oil pumps and pickups. Additionally, the HUGE volume of oil stabilizes the additive package AND temperature.

Its a big upgrade. Big.

Shawn

Thanks - excellent read. That was truly informative.
Good to know they did a lot of homework.!

[Eljeffrey13]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Good catch. It's more than that (and one of the reasons I say the F90's oil is as specced pretty damn well). BMW has apparently spent A LOT of time (and money) studying oil handling systems for the S63B44T4.

Here's a pretty good comparison to the NON-M V8, and the upgrades...

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...them-the-same/

Additional oil control groove, 8 drain ports compared to 4, and sixteen oil sprayers means they have studied the oil handling EXTENSIVELY. TWO oil pumps and pickups. Additionally, the HUGE volume of oil stabilizes the additive package AND temperature.

Its a big upgrade. Big.

Shawn

Is ur opinion that ppl should run the factory spec oil or is 5w 40 fine in ur opinion?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Eljeffrey13

Is ur opinion that ppl should run the factory spec oil or is 5w 40 fine in ur opinion?

Both WILL work. But I STRONGLY suggest if you're in warranty period you use a "BMW approved" oil in the factory spec.

If you're not, the 5W-40 with the proper pack (again, BMW approved) will be fine for the long run. So will a 0W-40. Strongly suggest you stick to oils with "euro" specialties (the only US one that seems to really be up to speed is Redline, but it's HEAVY on the additive pack). Liqui-moly, Pentosin, Motul, Ravenol. And one with LL-01 FE. You gotta look HARD for that one. There are plenty of oils that are "probably" fine. But the direct injection on this motor MIGHT be sensitive to deposits. The detonation problem noted above is unfortunately a new development in the direct injection engines (which are much higher compression usually, and susceptible to "dieseling" anyway).

So the answer is complex. But you're mostly better off sticking to the BMW certified oils. Pick a viscosity CLOSE to OEM spec. Try not to jump two viscosities. I hope that helps.

Shawn

[Ropes]

A worthwhile read https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1764629

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Ropes

A worthwhile read https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1764629

"out of engine" tests don't help much. Basically this proved that Amazon Basics oil is pretty good for stats. Doesn't mean much for 100,000 miles in a BMW. I'd put my money on the Liqui-Moly doing better for that distance (10,000 miles per change of course). Timkin machines have been the devil of snake oil salesmen for ages.

But, there's no "bad" oil in that group. None. Not like the olden days of my youth in the 1970's.

Shawn

[Ropes]

Try page 4 and on. Not Amazon basics 😂

[pbonsalb]

FE seems to just be an extended interval fuel economy oil. If you change your oil every 5k, why do you need FE other than to try to preserve a warranty?

[Eljeffrey13]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Both WILL work. But I STRONGLY suggest if you're in warranty period you use a "BMW approved" oil in the factory spec.

If you're not, the 5W-40 with the proper pack (again, BMW approved) will be fine for the long run. So will a 0W-40. Strongly suggest you stick to oils with "euro" specialties (the only US one that seems to really be up to speed is Redline, but it's HEAVY on the additive pack). Liqui-moly, Pentosin, Motul, Ravenol. And one with LL-01 FE. You gotta look HARD for that one. There are plenty of oils that are "probably" fine. But the direct injection on this motor MIGHT be sensitive to deposits. The detonation problem noted above is unfortunately a new development in the direct injection engines (which are much higher compression usually, and susceptible to "dieseling" anyway).

So the answer is complex. But you're mostly better off sticking to the BMW certified oils. Pick a viscosity CLOSE to OEM spec. Try not to jump two viscosities. I hope that helps.

Shawn

Ya i have always used LM 5w 40 with 2 bottles of ceratec and i love how smooth the car runs and i have peace of mind when i get on the car… with my next oil change im gonna switch the ceratec for mso2 and then go back from change to change to ensure protection and health

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

FE seems to just be an extended interval fuel economy oil. If you change your oil every 5k, why do you need FE other than to try to preserve a warranty?

Low sulfated ash, and additive package for minimizing friction.

Think about that for a second. The "extended interval fuel economy" will minimize friction for fuel economy and keep contaminants at a minimum to avoid sludge and deposits. What's the downside there?

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

No sludge in my oil. I have yet to find any in a motor of mine that I have opened up. And LL01 and LL04 are low SAPS. I think the FE is for fuel economy and 10k mile change intervals. It is not necessarily the best or only good choice for the S63TU4, but is good for BMWs free service and for their CAFE compliance.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

No sludge in my oil. I have yet to find any in a motor of mine that I have opened up. And LL01 and LL04 are low SAPS. I think the FE is for fuel economy and 10k mile change intervals. It is not necessarily the best or only good choice for the S63TU4, but is good for BMWs free service and for their CAFE compliance.

I realize how sophisticated this SEEMS. I commend you for coming to the knife fight armed with an Uzi. You obviously know your stuff. But I have a challenge for you...

Find SOMEBODY who has a BMW that is STOCK, that has had excessive engine wear by using stock oil. I challenge you. Tracked/dragged/whatever.

We did this on the GT-R as well. Everybody whose engine builder said "wrong oil" had 1000 hp plus on ignorant levels of boost, and the stupid GT-R held Five quarts. FIVE. And no engine failures were from shitty oil. It was just excessive bearing wear.

Today's oils are just so, so good.

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

I agree there are not a lot of wrong oils among the generally right oils. I also agree state of the art oils are all really good. I have not seen any reports of M5 blowing up from non LL01FE 5W30 oils. I also have not seen any 100,000 mile or 10 year engine wear tests of the F90 M5, and am not convinced BMW cares what happens several years out of warranty as much as it cares about avoiding CAFE penalties and saving money on free servicing. Time will tell. But in the meantime, it is actually hard to make a bad oil choice unless you are completely ignorant.

[Danny D]

What do you guys think about this oil ?

https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/ca/syn...cription-title

[pbonsalb]

A lot of people like LiquiMoly but a lot of people also like other oils. The one you linked is LL01 not LL01FE. Shawn will refer you to LIQUI MOLY Special Tec B FE 5W-30. Both are good choices.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Danny D

What do you guys think about this oil ?

https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/ca/syn...cription-title

Other than missing the BMW certification (that's a pain to get), it's effin awesome. Equivalent is Mobil 0W-40, which is the factory fill for many a car.

Why would you want to put it in an M5?

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I agree there are not a lot of wrong oils among the generally right oils. I also agree state of the art oils are all really good. I have not seen any reports of M5 blowing up from non LL01FE 5W30 oils. I also have not seen any 100,000 mile or 10 year engine wear tests of the F90 M5, and am not convinced BMW cares what happens several years out of warranty as much as it cares about avoiding CAFE penalties and saving money on free servicing. Time will tell. But in the meantime, it is actually hard to make a bad oil choice unless you are completely ignorant.

You are correct. I suspect you have arrived at the point I did many years ago. The oils SEEM so much different. And there are SO MANY additive packages to consider. Calcium, molybdenum, TBN, TAN, etc. etc. Ester vs. PAO, full synthetic vs. hydrocracked. Blah blah blah blah blah.

So long as you are in the ballpark, you'll be fine. Just study and use what you wish. Throw us some oil analyses, and if they're "interesting" enough, I'll do some on the OEM fill and we'll compare.

Just so you know, old dude with a GT-R did this to me years ago on NAGTROC. He used wal-mart off the shelf 0W-40 Mobil-1 and was ALMOST as good as any of my Motul 300V's, Redline, and Renewable Lubricant's. He spent 1/3 on his oil over the life of his 2009 GT-R as I did.

It hurt.

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

How do you know it was almost as good versus just as good?

Mobil 1 0W40 is a great oil — I ran it in my E90 M3 that specified 10W60. Of course it originally specified Castrol 10W60 and people would say the engine was designed around the Castrol oil, but when Shell took over BMW’s oil contract, Shell 10W60 became good enough.