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      07-31-2016, 08:49 AM   #1
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Why F90?

I've asked before on this forum and no one has been able to answer...

If the next gen 5 series is a G30, wouldn't the next gen M5 be G90 and NOT F90?

Doesn't make sense to me. Imagine the current F8x M3/M4 was called a E9x (Yes I realize the previous M3 were the E9x). I'm just curious why they are calling it an "F" chassis still if its based on the new "G" chassis?

Can anyone explain?
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      08-02-2016, 08:35 AM   #2
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I guess no one knows?
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      08-02-2016, 06:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedR8
I guess no one knows?
My guess is that they are giving us a hint as to a new engine being developed somewhere along the LCI refresh. Everyone is utilizing a 4L now and BMW for the first time will actually have the biggest engine between Audi and Merc. I read on the forum that they will begin producing a 4L v8 for Jaguar. If the M division is making that engine then that could be the replacement for the s63tu. So if they do indeed change out the engine then that m5 might be the G30...

Mercedes has done that with their cars. Bmw has since copied their approach to utilizing a single engine across multiple platforms but never have they introduced a new engine within the same generation. This would be the first time for an M model. And the continuation for diluting the M brand continues!!!
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      08-03-2016, 10:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisNich117 View Post
My guess is that they are giving us a hint as to a new engine being developed somewhere along the LCI refresh. Everyone is utilizing a 4L now and BMW for the first time will actually have the biggest engine between Audi and Merc. I read on the forum that they will begin producing a 4L v8 for Jaguar. If the M division is making that engine then that could be the replacement for the s63tu. So if they do indeed change out the engine then that m5 might be the G30...

Mercedes has done that with their cars. Bmw has since copied their approach to utilizing a single engine across multiple platforms but never have they introduced a new engine within the same generation. This would be the first time for an M model. And the continuation for diluting the M brand continues!!!
I don't think that is the answer, because the engine isn't what dictates the G or the F. The G or the F is the chassis generation, not the engine generation
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      08-03-2016, 10:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedR8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisNich117 View Post
My guess is that they are giving us a hint as to a new engine being developed somewhere along the LCI refresh. Everyone is utilizing a 4L now and BMW for the first time will actually have the biggest engine between Audi and Merc. I read on the forum that they will begin producing a 4L v8 for Jaguar. If the M division is making that engine then that could be the replacement for the s63tu. So if they do indeed change out the engine then that m5 might be the G30...

Mercedes has done that with their cars. Bmw has since copied their approach to utilizing a single engine across multiple platforms but never have they introduced a new engine within the same generation. This would be the first time for an M model. And the continuation for diluting the M brand continues!!!
I don't think that is the answer, because the engine isn't what dictates the G or the F. The G or the F is the chassis generation, not the engine generation
This is true! But there are a lot of things Bmw has become inconsistent with. I wouldn't be surprised if they carried over more then just the engine, tranny and brakes especially since the last report said the "f90" will stay RWD. Once that AWD system is a go I bet we'll see it designated as a G30. I really can't come up with a more logical assumption
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      08-03-2016, 06:11 PM   #6
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maybe SCOTT26 can chime in on this?
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      08-04-2016, 08:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisNich117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedR8
I guess no one knows?
My guess is that they are giving us a hint as to a new engine being developed somewhere along the LCI refresh. Everyone is utilizing a 4L now and BMW for the first time will actually have the biggest engine between Audi and Merc. I read on the forum that they will begin producing a 4L v8 for Jaguar. If the M division is making that engine then that could be the replacement for the s63tu. So if they do indeed change out the engine then that m5 might be the G30...

Mercedes has done that with their cars. Bmw has since copied their approach to utilizing a single engine across multiple platforms but never have they introduced a new engine within the same generation. This would be the first time for an M model. And the continuation for diluting the M brand continues!!!
Nope they are giving Jag the N63tu and S63 Tu for their cars . So next generation M cars and Jag performance cars will likely have the same exact S63 Tu V8 engine .
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      08-09-2016, 04:30 PM   #8
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For use as a model designate there is a long term shortage on the letter "G". "F" on the other hand is incredibly plentiful and cheap. Makes sense for BMW to stay with "F" for some models to save money.
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      08-10-2016, 07:37 AM   #9
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How do they save money by internally calling it F90 instead of G90???
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      08-13-2016, 10:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laki021 View Post
How do they save money by internally calling it F90 instead of G90???
They have a deal with Deutsche Bank on the letter "F". When I visited the Welt I remember seeing entire canisters filled with the letter "F".
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      08-15-2016, 12:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedR8 View Post
I've asked before on this forum and no one has been able to answer...

If the next gen 5 series is a G30, wouldn't the next gen M5 be G90 and NOT F90?

Doesn't make sense to me. Imagine the current F8x M3/M4 was called a E9x (Yes I realize the previous M3 were the E9x). I'm just curious why they are calling it an "F" chassis still if its based on the new "G" chassis?

Can anyone explain?
I don't think there is any reason you can judge based on the solid fact.
The current 5 series and M5 have the same chassis code of F10.
The same with 6 series and M6 (F12/F13/F06) but in case of 3 series the regular one is F3x while the M car is F8x. I believe at some point BMW changed the rule and now they have to fill the "F" while the last "F" is F8x for M2/M3/M4/X5M/X6M and the next available should be F9x that can be M5/M6 ... BUT you never know if they change it at last minute
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      08-24-2016, 02:46 PM   #12
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The F90 v G30 designation is driving me crazy!! Yes, I'm anal. And yes, I love the Germans for being even more anal than I am. But what's going on in this world?? One chassis. One chassis designation. That's the way it's always been. That's the way it always should be. Germans - be German please!!

And how about this -- The F10 had a six year model cycle (MY11-16). I thought for sure that BMW would introduce the G30 in CY17 as an MY18, skipping a model year as they did with the G11 7er to preserve the seven year cycle. But no!! The G30 order guide indicates it will be designated as a MY17. And when have we ever seen a BMW order guide for a car that hasn't even been introduced??

WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE GERMANS? Some sort of Merkel-induced mass psychosis? Hippy-dippy Germans. What's next? A megalomaniac billionaire for President of the US??

Rant off. Mic drop.
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      08-25-2016, 04:11 AM   #13
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It is still 7 year cycle, F10 debuted 2009 and deliveries started early 2010 (~January), so no problem here...

Personally, I would't mind even if they shorten a cycle to 5-6 years.
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      08-25-2016, 08:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laki021 View Post
It is still 7 year cycle, F10 debuted 2009 and deliveries started early 2010 (~January), so no problem here...
Ya, I was half-joking. I know that "model years" are done differently in different parts of the world, dictated either by custom or law. In North America though, BMW has been incredibly consistent with its seven year cycle, sometime going through odd gyrations, like skipping years, to maintain that consistency. It's been that way for many, many years - model years 1 through 4 of an original design, followed by model years 5 through 7 of an LCI. But the F10 was different here early-on as the LCI was introduced in its fourth North American model year rather than the traditional year 5. We should have figured something was up then.
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      09-06-2016, 10:34 PM   #15
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I haven't gone through and looked at every single comment (so don't jump down my throat if i repeat something)but, the chassis designation is relative to the progress made on chassis development. The Chassis of the new and old M5 have to be pretty similar because the engine from the 30 jahre carries over and the chassis number takes that into account. It's not as "new" as the G30 because of the sharing of components from the last generation. I think we can expect a very similar transmission on the f90 (with a transfer case)/ differential and some carried over suspension part. Nothing to worry about with the next gen though. With AWD, I think we can expect launches in the very low 3 seconds.
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      09-14-2016, 11:48 PM   #16
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My personal thoughts are:

1) Either M5 G90 (or G30) actually gonna happen.

or

2) It's going to be M5 F90 solely for the reason mentioned above. They are going to put S63tu in F90, and when LCI comes by, they will put a new 4 liter engine and be like, welcome the all new M5 G90. We can see that BMW has been changing it's marketing technique a lot lately with all M3/M4, AWD rumors etc. Let's recall times when M power division claimed, there will be no M powered SUVs, AWD M powered car and M powered turbo engine and they fucked it up just by making X5M. At the end of the day it's all about money.
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      09-16-2016, 01:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Nike
My personal thoughts are:

1) Either M5 G90 (or G30) actually gonna happen.

or

2) It's going to be M5 F90 solely for the reason mentioned above. They are going to put S63tu in F90, and when LCI comes by, they will put a new 4 liter engine and be like, welcome the all new M5 G90. We can see that BMW has been changing it's marketing technique a lot lately with all M3/M4, AWD rumors etc. Let's recall times when M power division claimed, there will be no M powered SUVs, AWD M powered car and M powered turbo engine and they fucked it up just by making X5M. At the end of the day it's all about money.
Oh God help them if they introduce an all new engine halfway through the next M5's life cycle. It's already bad enough that the S63tu will be used again.
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      02-20-2018, 01:31 PM   #18
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Maybe it

I also think that F90 sounds a little silly, but according to this link, I think this comment is the right inference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M5...2%80%93present)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisNich117 View Post
My guess is that they are giving us a hint as to a new engine being developed somewhere along the LCI refresh. Everyone is utilizing a 4L now and BMW for the first time will actually have the biggest engine between Audi and Merc. I read on the forum that they will begin producing a 4L v8 for Jaguar. If the M division is making that engine then that could be the replacement for the s63tu. So if they do indeed change out the engine then that m5 might be the G30...

Mercedes has done that with their cars. Bmw has since copied their approach to utilizing a single engine across multiple platforms but never have they introduced a new engine within the same generation. This would be the first time for an M model. And the continuation for diluting the M brand continues!!!
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      02-20-2018, 04:59 PM   #19
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The designations are given out at the time of design and they are given out in order. The reason why there are gaps at times is because some cars don't make it to market, at all.

Take a look back at the mid 90s and forward and it is a lot easier to see. Also, you can tell when a car was under development for a long time because it has a relatively low 'E' number compared to what else is on the market from BMW.

Case and point, from this link https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-BMW-Chassis-Codes you can see that the original 8 series was given the E31 code. It was produced from 1990-1998. However, it was probably in the design phase for a very long time through the early 80s.

The E30 hit production in 1984, so I am gonna guess that the E31 started design around 1982, even though it didn't come to market until 1990.
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      02-25-2018, 09:02 AM   #20
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...I would have preferred the F10 M5 replacement had been designated,....F15!
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      12-07-2019, 06:18 PM   #21
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Agree + another Q

I also always thought the designations were simply chronological. Follow the E numbers through etc.

Anyway; F90 -vs- G30 ?

Why, unlike any other M5 did the F90 designation not be the same as the (saloon) 5 series of the time.

My guess is that the F90/M5 started development (simply got in there on the bureaucracy to get budget to start) before the new 5 series it was based on. Its a thought I can't shake. Did, for the first time, the F90 M5 get budget and a designation before the 5 series it was going to use ? If that speculation is correct, what in particular technology got that attention, devoid of the majority of the car it was going to (re)use ?
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