BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 General Forum    For those with tunes!

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-04-2020, 08:03 AM   #23
A Need For Speed
Lieutenant
A Need For Speed's Avatar
378
Rep
544
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5 Comp Nardo/Aragon
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yujini View Post
Wouldn't higher boost be the issue here?
No the issue is an ECU tune. A piggy does not change the ECU. Is it totally invisible to a deep dig? Probably not but with no ECU tune and no hardware on car, you have a much better chance of no issues with dealer.
__________________
Nardo Grey/Aragon M5C
Burger Tuning JB4, H & R 550 springs, spacers 13mm front and 10mm rear, Michelin PS4S 285/30/20 front, 295/30/20 rear, Remus racing exhaust, Eventuri V2 intake, Suntek Ultra PPF entire car, ceramic coated wheels/brakes, 20% ceramic tints, assorted CF bits.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 09:52 AM   #24
Jocko78
Private First Class
104
Rep
195
Posts

Drives: M5 / X3 M40i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Indiana

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Need For Speed View Post
As I said, it will not come up in a routine service.
He's absolutely right, won't come up on regular service, I have never ever had it be an issue. Drivetrain, completely agree, they will dig before they float that bill. It's all about your risk tolerance, the RC absolutely makes my car faster and more fun, worth it to me.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 10:05 AM   #25
dardeca
Major
dardeca's Avatar
United_States
499
Rep
1,313
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocko78 View Post
He's absolutely right, won't come up on regular service, I have never ever had it be an issue. Drivetrain, completely agree, they will dig before they float that bill. It's all about your risk tolerance, the RC absolutely makes my car faster and more fun, worth it to me.
What is involved with a RC install and "uninstall" prior to taking the car in for service?
__________________
E92 M3 Supplemental manual p.38: "The laws of physics cannot be repealed, even with DSC."
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 10:19 AM   #26
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dardeca View Post
What is involved with a RC install and "uninstall" prior to taking the car in for service?
Simple removal of the unit and reconnecting two wires--- ala jb4.

Racechip is just a bypass tune like JB4 which tricks the ECU externally.

I have done 2 services with mine and its about a 5 min job to remove and another 5 minutes to reapply.

The DIY:

__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 1
dardeca498.50
      08-05-2020, 10:26 AM   #27
houstonT
Second Lieutenant
146
Rep
241
Posts

Drives: 2024 M3 CS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Glad to see this thread, as I was about to do a tune only.....just picked up a 2020 M5 Comp and it isn't worth the hassle for a daily driver.
__________________
2024 BMW M3 CS -- 2021 STO UGR TT -- 2019 McLaren Senna -- 2021 McLaren 765LT -- 1997 Toyota Supra Turbo -- 2006 Ford GT -- 2022 Lamborghini Urus
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 10:34 AM   #28
A Need For Speed
Lieutenant
A Need For Speed's Avatar
378
Rep
544
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5 Comp Nardo/Aragon
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Simple removal of the unit and reconnecting two wires--- ala jb4.

Racechip is just a bypass tune like JB4 which tricks the ECU externally.

I have done 2 services with mine and its about a 5 min job to remove and another 5 minutes to reapply.

The DIY:


Agree. RC is easy 5 minute removal but now that I have removed my JB4 a few times, it is 20 minutes or less. After using both, RC is fine but that damn JB4 on Map 2 with 93 octane goes like so that little extra removal time every 10K miles is worth it for me. Either make car more fun and are worth it, IMO.
__________________
Nardo Grey/Aragon M5C
Burger Tuning JB4, H & R 550 springs, spacers 13mm front and 10mm rear, Michelin PS4S 285/30/20 front, 295/30/20 rear, Remus racing exhaust, Eventuri V2 intake, Suntek Ultra PPF entire car, ceramic coated wheels/brakes, 20% ceramic tints, assorted CF bits.
Appreciate 1
limeypride4418.50
      08-05-2020, 04:52 PM   #29
TrevorM3
Banned
3318
Rep
8,083
Posts

Drives: 6.3 AMG
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Need For Speed View Post
No the issue is an ECU tune. A piggy does not change the ECU. Is it totally invisible to a deep dig? Probably not but with no ECU tune and no hardware on car, you have a much better chance of no issues with dealer.

i have a tech looking into this for me. Hopefully i'll know soon.

Regardless, i'm selling the RC i bought. (Shameless plug)
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 06:13 PM   #30
Jocko78
Private First Class
104
Rep
195
Posts

Drives: M5 / X3 M40i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Indiana

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
i have a tech looking into this for me. Hopefully i'll know soon.

Regardless, i'm selling the RC i bought. (Shameless plug)
The ECU may not have traces but there is another unit, forgot the name, that does hold onto the data and won't reset or erase if it loses power. Betting someone here knows what I am describing.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 07:58 PM   #31
TrevorM3
Banned
3318
Rep
8,083
Posts

Drives: 6.3 AMG
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocko78 View Post
The ECU may not have traces but there is another unit, forgot the name, that does hold onto the data and won't reset or erase if it loses power. Betting someone here knows what I am describing.



Yea, i'm sure you're right. I dont want to find out the hard way, regardless. Sucks, but i knew this was coming.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 08:16 PM   #32
limeypride
Brigadier General
limeypride's Avatar
United_States
4419
Rep
4,109
Posts

Drives: 2022 M8 Competition GC
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Orlando area, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjr24 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
I guess you have to pay to play these days. Glad my F90 Comp is stock.
I just can't see how it's worth it to tune the car these days.......I would not want to risk blowing an engine and not having it covered.....for what, 2.1 in the 0-60 instead of 2.6?
Yes.
Appreciate 1
      08-05-2020, 08:19 PM   #33
limeypride
Brigadier General
limeypride's Avatar
United_States
4419
Rep
4,109
Posts

Drives: 2022 M8 Competition GC
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Orlando area, FL

iTrader: (0)

The latest technique uses the same sensors your phone has to measure/record acceleration rates—game over. Piggy or flash, they'll know... unless it's a Noelle tune because that apparently makes no difference to... fuck all.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 08:20 PM   #34
limeypride
Brigadier General
limeypride's Avatar
United_States
4419
Rep
4,109
Posts

Drives: 2022 M8 Competition GC
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Orlando area, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocko78 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
i have a tech looking into this for me. Hopefully i'll know soon.

Regardless, i'm selling the RC i bought. (Shameless plug)
The ECU may not have traces but there is another unit, forgot the name, that does hold onto the data and won't reset or erase if it loses power. Betting someone here knows what I am describing.
TPM.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 08:56 PM   #35
GranitM5
Lieutenant
GranitM5's Avatar
No_Country
366
Rep
435
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M5
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
The latest technique uses the same sensors your phone has to measure/record acceleration rates—game over. Piggy or flash, they'll know... unless it's a Noelle tune because that makes no apparent difference to fuck all.
I appreciate you not being on the Piggy is Undetectable boat. Any boost modification will show up one way or another.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 09:57 PM   #36
limeypride
Brigadier General
limeypride's Avatar
United_States
4419
Rep
4,109
Posts

Drives: 2022 M8 Competition GC
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Orlando area, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitM5 View Post
I appreciate you not being on the Piggy is Undetectable boat. Any boost modification will show up one way or another.
I'm with you.

They were always *tougher* to detect but I believe the earliest, most basic versions were close to the way folks describe them here. As I understand it, they monitored ECU boost targets then intercepted & incrementally lowered the response from the boost controller over time thereby tricking the ECU into consistently upping the boost target until actual boost hits stock + the additive boost target configured in the piggy. Given that the piggy is continuously subtracting some computed value similar to or identical to the piggy's additive target, it keeps the ECU in the dark. The ECUs are designed to adapt--and the piggys exploit that--but there's some upper-bound imposed by whoever's logic was in-play (Bosch, etc.) so it's not without limits. Assuming my understanding is correct (and that's a massive assumption because I design security software and know basically fuck all about engines ), that would've been tough to detect back in the day which is I think where the folklore comes from.

Nowadays, the piggys do even more (taking control over the wastegates, for example) but, regardless, with accelerometers being used to identify when the car has been tinkered with--short of subverting the accelerometer itself--they're (BMW, MB, etc.) going to know.

Last edited by limeypride; 08-06-2020 at 05:57 PM..
Appreciate 1
GranitM5366.00
      08-05-2020, 10:05 PM   #37
GranitM5
Lieutenant
GranitM5's Avatar
No_Country
366
Rep
435
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M5
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitM5 View Post
I appreciate you not being on the Piggy is Undetectable boat. Any boost modification will show up one way or another.
I'm with you.

They were always *tougher* to detect but I do believe the earliest, most basic versions were close to the way folks describe them here. As I understand it, they intercepted ECU boost targets and lowered the response incrementally over time until they reached the additive boost target configured in the piggy. The boost controllers obliged and responded (in a feedback loop) with what they achieved (which would've included the piggy's additive boost). The piggy then subtracted a computed value (similar to or identical to the piggy's additive target) thereby tricking the ECU into consistently upping the boost target. The ECU did this over time and began to adapt the target to some upper-bound imposed by whoever's logic was in-play (Bosch, etc.) Assuming my understanding is correct (that's a massive assumption because I design security software and know basically fuck all about engines ), that would've been tough to detect back in the day which is I think where today's folklore comes from.

Nowadays, the piggys do even more (taking control over the wastegates, for example) but, regardless, with accelerometers being used to identify whether the car has been tinkered with, short of subverting the accelerometer itself, they're (BMW, MB, etc.) going to know.
Appreciate 1
limeypride4418.50
      08-07-2020, 09:01 AM   #38
BMWM12045
New Member
9
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: F90 M5 C, F87 M2 CS
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitM5 View Post
Speaking from a personal experience in the last few months, this information is not correct and they can not tell.

Maybe I got lucky or they checked less because of covid? I don't know. I can tell you even posting this little of information makes me uncomfortable so I can see why there are not a lot of definitive information.
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2020, 09:03 AM   #39
GranitM5
Lieutenant
GranitM5's Avatar
No_Country
366
Rep
435
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M5
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFPC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitM5 View Post
Speaking from a personal experience in the last few months, this information is not correct and they can not tell.

Maybe I got lucky or they checked less because of covid? I don't know. I can tell you even posting this little of information makes me uncomfortable so I can see why there are not a lot of definitive information.
I've always had all my cars tuned and still got warranty work done. With that said, I never had any major issue. I'm sure they knew the car had work done to it but as long as it wasn't expensive, they covered it. They don't check unless they need to.
Appreciate 1
F90nyc0.00
      08-07-2020, 09:16 AM   #40
TrevorM3
Banned
3318
Rep
8,083
Posts

Drives: 6.3 AMG
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitM5 View Post
I've always had all my cars tuned and still got warranty work done. With that said, I never had any major issue. I'm sure they knew the car had work done to it but as long as it wasn't expensive, they covered it. They don't check unless they need to.



you blow a motor, they are going to check brotha. That is a fact. Even if you slip the tech a couple bucks, it doesn't matter. The regional rep will be called out.
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2020, 09:19 AM   #41
GranitM5
Lieutenant
GranitM5's Avatar
No_Country
366
Rep
435
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M5
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitM5 View Post
I've always had all my cars tuned and still got warranty work done. With that said, I never had any major issue. I'm sure they knew the car had work done to it but as long as it wasn't expensive, they covered it. They don't check unless they need to.



you blow a motor, they are going to check brotha. That is a fact. Even if you slip the tech a couple bucks, it doesn't matter. The regional rep will be called out.
Yea of course. That's what I was implying. If nothing goes wrong they usually don't care to check. The days where you can slip someone money are long gone lol
Appreciate 1
F90nyc0.00
      08-07-2020, 09:31 AM   #42
A Need For Speed
Lieutenant
A Need For Speed's Avatar
378
Rep
544
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5 Comp Nardo/Aragon
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
The latest technique uses the same sensors your phone has to measure/record acceleration rates—game over. Piggy or flash, they'll know... unless it's a Noelle tune because that apparently makes no difference to... fuck all.
Hey Dean, hope all is well.
Still running a JB4? I picked one up used and love it. No issues, no problems. Noelle tune sounds too good to be true so probably is.
__________________
Nardo Grey/Aragon M5C
Burger Tuning JB4, H & R 550 springs, spacers 13mm front and 10mm rear, Michelin PS4S 285/30/20 front, 295/30/20 rear, Remus racing exhaust, Eventuri V2 intake, Suntek Ultra PPF entire car, ceramic coated wheels/brakes, 20% ceramic tints, assorted CF bits.
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2020, 09:45 AM   #43
TrevorM3
Banned
3318
Rep
8,083
Posts

Drives: 6.3 AMG
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitM5 View Post
Yea of course. That's what I was implying. If nothing goes wrong they usually don't care to check. The days where you can slip someone money are long gone lol



Appreciate 0
      08-07-2020, 10:00 AM   #44
limeypride
Brigadier General
limeypride's Avatar
United_States
4419
Rep
4,109
Posts

Drives: 2022 M8 Competition GC
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Orlando area, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Need For Speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
The latest technique uses the same sensors your phone has to measure/record acceleration rates—game over. Piggy or flash, they'll know... unless it's a Noelle tune because that apparently makes no difference to... fuck all.
Hey Dean, hope all is well.
Still running a JB4? I picked one up used and love it. No issues, no problems. Noelle tune sounds too good to be true so probably is.
Hey!

I am indeed and still loving it.
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 AM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST