[Topspeed]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...mparison-test/

More results. Different outcome. Go figure.

Look at the trap speed. That's telling. What would happen from a roll?

[Topspeed]

So if anything Topspeeds post has helped confirm my own (that the 570S is either slower or equal to the Turbo S). It does not. Using a 1/4 mile favours an all-wheel vehicle so it can hardly be considered an objective metric against the 570 s which is rear wheel drive. The fact that a rear wheel drive can even keep up with or beat the turbo S (Top gear drag race) is a testament to how fast it is.

I know you mention 300 KM - but almost no one is racing to 300 KM/hr - so when we say straight line it is mostly 1/4 mile we are speaking about and maybe if you stretch it a 1/2 mile run.[/QUOTE]. Still doesn't change the fact that it's way faster once the Turbo S's advantage off the line is negated.


There are videos of a stock 570 s running 10.275 seconds at Atco btw.

Discounting anything above the 1/4 mile is slightly myopic in my opinion.
Not everyone lives their lives a 1/4 mile at a time.

To beat the 570s in a straight line you're going to need a GT2RS as a 600LT is just about as fast.

What would happen from a roll if both cars are stock?

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Topspeed

So if anything Topspeeds post has helped confirm my own (that the 570S is either slower or equal to the Turbo S) in the 1/4 mile. Fixed it.

There are videos of a stock 570 s running 10.275 seconds at Atco btw.

Discounting anything above the 1/4 mile is slightly myopic in my opinion.
Not everyone lives their lives a 1/4 mile at a time.

To beat the 570s in a straight line you're going to need a GT2RS as a 600LT is just about as fast.

What would happen from a roll if both cars are stock?

I'm not discounting anything. 1/4 mile - reaching 130+ MPH from a dig is what most people consider a common racing distance. So for straight line - it is the de facto racing distance.
ET and MPH are two separate but related things when it comes to racing. ET for the most part is traction. Trap speed is the cars potential. I will be the first to admit that the Mclarens - 570S included - have higher trap speeds than the Turbo S - usually 135+ (720S being 142-146 on average). So on a roll - the Turbo S would lose more times than not as traction isn't as much an issue.
THAT said, from a dig - the 570S is losing to a Turbo S more times than not as the Turbo S AWD creates 1.5x to 1.6x 60' times on the stock tires these cars come with.
So I still stand by my point. In a 1/2 mile - the 570S would have the potential to pull ahead - pending how much of a beating it took from a dig. I raced a 488 which is supposed to trap higher 130's and I was a bus ahead by the finish line because he couldn't catch up. I was already a full car and a half ahead before the starter even moved. So it isn't all pure numbers in real life racing.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I'm not discounting anything. 1/4 mile - reaching 130+ MPH from a dig is what most people consider a common racing distance. So for straight line - it is the de facto racing distance.
ET and MPH are two separate but related things when it comes to racing. ET for the most part is traction. Trap speed is the cars potential. I will be the first to admit that the Mclarens - 570S included - have higher trap speeds than the Turbo S - usually 135+ (720S being 142-146 on average). So on a roll - the Turbo S would lose more times than not as traction isn't as much an issue.
THAT said, from a dig - the 570S is losing to a Turbo S more times than not as the Turbo S AWD creates 1.5x to 1.6x 60' times on the stock tires these cars come with.
So I still stand by my point. In a 1/2 mile - the 570S would have the potential to pull ahead - pending how much of a beating it took from a dig. I raced a 488 which is supposed to trap higher 130's and I was a bus ahead by the finish line because he couldn't catch up. I was already a full car and a half ahead before the starter even moved. So it isn't all pure numbers in real life racing.

Exactly. When you start posting YouTube videos you can find anything. MF888 has a series of GT2RS vs 720S runs from static and a roll with the GT2RS winning most. You can find anything. On a non prepped asphalt surface , I would bet on the TTS over a 720S in the 1/8th mile. 0 to 105 mph. All due to the HOOK !

[Topspeed]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Exactly. When you start posting YouTube videos you can find anything. MF888 has a series of GT2RS vs 720S runs from static and a roll with the GT2RS winning most. You can find anything. On a non prepped asphalt surface , I would bet on the TTS over a 720S in the 1/8th mile. 0 to 105 mph. All due to the HOOK !

Ok... and what happens thereafter, assuming you don't brake?

[Topspeed]

Originally Posted by Topspeed

Ok... and what happens thereafter, assuming you don't brake?

I don't think anyone's disputing that the Turbo S if fast out of the blocks. That a rear wheel drive car is able to keep pace with it is what's remarkable.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Topspeed

I don't think anyone's disputing that the Turbo S if fast out of the blocks. That a rear wheel drive car is able to keep pace with it is what's remarkable.

No one is stating that isn’t remarkable. I seriously considered the 720S. Its massive depreciation and issues with quality (and need for maintenance and repair) made it too much a poor financial decision for me.
Performance wise - stock for stock - it is unbeatable.

The Turbo S - especially for the performance, money and all roundedness of the platform - was the car I felt the superior choice - for me.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by Topspeed

I don't think anyone's disputing that the Turbo S if fast out of the blocks. That a rear wheel drive car is able to keep pace with it is what's remarkable.

Keep in mind, I like all of them. I was looking for an "all rounder" to go with my F90 M5. The M5 is such an outstanding "all rounder" it was hard for me to find reasonable contenders. It had to be fast, comfortable. reliable and special.....not a one hit wonder. (I already have one of those that goes 0-60 in 1.5 seconds and 0-184mph in under 9 seconds and don't need a 1/2 mile to do it). So I cross shopped the TTS , GT2RS and the 720S. 720S hands down (to me) has the strongest top end hit . GT2RS is close. But neither has the comfort. 720S does not have reliability either. "For me" the TTS does it all. Would order one again and wait 3 months.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Keep in mind, I like all of them. I was looking for an "all rounder" to go with my F90 M5. The M5 is such an outstanding "all rounder" it was hard for me to find reasonable contenders. It had to be fast, comfortable. reliable and special.....not a one hit wonder. (I already have one of those that goes 0-60 in 1.5 seconds and 0-184mph in under 9 seconds and don't need a 1/2 mile to do it). So I cross shopped the TTS , GT2RS and the 720S. 720S hands down (to me) has the strongest top end hit . GT2RS is close. But neither has the comfort. 720S does not have reliability either. "For me" the TTS does it all. Would order one again and wait 3 months.

^^^Well said. And up until a few months ago - ditto.

[Topspeed]

[QUOTE=vtknight;25104103]No one is stating that isn’t remarkable. I seriously considered the 720S. Its massive depreciation and issues with quality (and need for maintenance and repair) made it too much a poor financial decision for me.
Performance wise - stock for stock - it is unbeatable.

I chose the 570 S track pack, because the Porsche doesn't look like a $200 000 car. It's too understated and the interior is not that much different to a 718. The 570s looks much more exotic and is much more of an event to drive. It offers better steering feedback and I can appreciate the carbon fiber monocell construction and the lowest kerb weight and best power to weight ratio in its class, the dihedral doors etc. Depreciation on the Turbo S isn't stellar either. A fully loaded low mileage 2017 991.2 Turbo S can be had in the 130's. None of these are investments IMHO.

[vtknight]

[QUOTE=Topspeed;25104582]

Originally Posted by vtknight

No one is stating that isn’t remarkable. I seriously considered the 720S. Its massive depreciation and issues with quality (and need for maintenance and repair) made it too much a poor financial decision for me.
Performance wise - stock for stock - it is unbeatable.

I chose the 570 S track pack, because the Porsche doesn't look like a $200 000 car. It's too understated and the interior is not that much different to a 718. The 570s looks much more exotic and is much more of an event to drive. It offers better steering feedback and I can appreciate the carbon fiber monocell construction and the lowest kerb weight and best power to weight ratio in its class, the dihedral doors etc. Depreciation on the Turbo S isn't stellar either. A fully loaded low mileage 2017 991.2 Turbo S can be had in the 130's. None of these are investments IMHO.

I agree - the Porsche’s do look alike. Only those knowing cars know the difference. This also suited my personality as I am an understated person.

Locally - Canada - the depreciation of Porsche Turbo S’s are in the positive - costing more than (new) stock due to the limited allocations. 2017’s are still about 80% of new. The 720S dropped more than 100K since it’s release here in comparison. Maintenance is crazy here as well - minimum 2K a year - I have heard as high as 10K.

570S is a great car. I also liked the extra two seats for my Children. I wanted an all rounder - and the Turbo S - in my opinion is the best all rounder available - especially for the price and ongoing maintenance.

Cars in the end of the day are a personal choice - you buy what suits you.

[onfireX5]

[QUOTE=Topspeed;25104582]

Originally Posted by vtknight

No one is stating that isn’t remarkable. I seriously considered the 720S. Its massive depreciation and issues with quality (and need for maintenance and repair) made it too much a poor financial decision for me.
Performance wise - stock for stock - it is unbeatable.

I chose the 570 S track pack, because the Porsche doesn't look like a $200 000 car. It's too understated and the interior is not that much different to a 718. The 570s looks much more exotic and is much more of an event to drive. It offers better steering feedback and I can appreciate the carbon fiber monocell construction and the lowest kerb weight and best power to weight ratio in its class, the dihedral doors etc. Depreciation on the Turbo S isn't stellar either. A fully loaded low mileage 2017 991.2 Turbo S can be had in the 130's. None of these are investments IMHO.

No doubt you bought the best car for you. You're smiling every time you drive it. For me, I sold a 2017 ZO6 because I could not stop and fuel it without someone coming up to talk about it. Almost was hit twice from folks driving toward it while gawking. 911 is understated. Takes a true enthusiast to identify it. MUCH less attention than the ZO6. Perfect for me.

[Topspeed]

[QUOTE=onfireX5;25104739]

Originally Posted by Topspeed

No doubt you bought the best car for you. You're smiling every time you drive it. For me, I sold a 2017 ZO6 because I could not stop and fuel it without someone coming up to talk about it. Almost was hit twice from folks driving toward it while gawking. 911 is understated. Takes a true enthusiast to identify it. MUCH less attention than the ZO6. Perfect for me.

[paliknight]

[QUOTE=Topspeed;25104582]

Originally Posted by vtknight

No one is stating that isn’t remarkable. I seriously considered the 720S. Its massive depreciation and issues with quality (and need for maintenance and repair) made it too much a poor financial decision for me.
Performance wise - stock for stock - it is unbeatable.

I chose the 570 S track pack, because the Porsche doesn't look like a $200 000 car. It's too understated and the interior is not that much different to a 718. The 570s looks much more exotic and is much more of an event to drive. It offers better steering feedback and I can appreciate the carbon fiber monocell construction and the lowest kerb weight and best power to weight ratio in its class, the dihedral doors etc. Depreciation on the Turbo S isn't stellar either. A fully loaded low mileage 2017 991.2 Turbo S can be had in the 130's. None of these are investments IMHO.

Just another data point, I recently traded in my F80 for a TTS for similar reasons stated. It is also my daily so I didn't want the attention nor the high cost of maintenance tagged along with other exotic cars such as a huracan or a 570. I understand if others buy them because they're unique, but I personally like to remain invisible to others while still driving a near exotic vehicle. I believe that's what the TTS was designed for. That gap that exists.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Topspeed

I chose the 570 S track pack, because the Porsche doesn't look like a $200 000 car. It's too understated and the interior is not that much different to a 718. The 570s looks much more exotic and is much more of an event to drive. It offers better steering feedback and I can appreciate the carbon fiber monocell construction and the lowest kerb weight and best power to weight ratio in its class, the dihedral doors etc. Depreciation on the Turbo S isn't stellar either. A fully loaded low mileage 2017 991.2 Turbo S can be had in the 130's. None of these are investments IMHO.

vtknight

I would disagree on your price point of the 2017's. Im not sure about the dollars in RSA but here in the US these are the most recent auction sales. These are costs pre recon, and saftey... dealer gross would add maybe another 5k on top if not a bit more. These are all lower milers with decent condition reports. Again this is a US view with one of the higher fully loaded cars still bringing all the chili:

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Vic55

vtknight

I would disagree on your price point of the 2017's. Im not sure about the dollars in RSA but here in the US these are the most recent auction sales. These are costs pre recon, and saftey... dealer gross would add maybe another 5k on top if not a bit more. These are all lower milers with decent condition reports. Again this is a US view with one of the higher fully loaded cars still bringing all the chili:

I hear you Vic. In Canada it’s a different ball game - Mclarens are cheap and Porsche’s are expensive.

This is a 2019 Turbo only - not S - asking 263K - about 25K over msrp.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...%204L6&sprx=-1

This is a 2017 with almost 10K miles - I admit it has the aero kit and burmeister sound - but it is a good example - still asking about 10K less than my 2019 was new:

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...%204L6&sprx=-1

2017 with a third the KM’s - still cheaper than the Turbo S.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/mclaren/...%204L6&sprx=-1

Different area being in Canada - but that is what we have. 720S’s have dropped over 100K from msrp here. 570’s are 50+ lower. There is no Turbo S below 200K 2017 or newer - which is only about a drop of 20-30K at the most from msrp.

[Topspeed]

Originally Posted by Vic55

vtknight

I would disagree on your price point of the 2017's. Im not sure about the dollars in RSA but here in the US these are the most recent auction sales. These are costs pre recon, and saftey... dealer gross would add maybe another 5k on top if not a bit more. These are all lower milers with decent condition reports. Again this is a US view with one of the higher fully loaded cars still bringing all the chili:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...&firstRecord=0

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...&firstRecord=0

I've compared both 2017 year models and they're both in the 150's on average on Autotrader, so I don't get the whole concept of the 570S depreciating much more than Turbo S. They seem about the same to me.

[Topspeed]

Originally Posted by Vic55

vtknight

I would disagree on your price point of the 2017's. Im not sure about the dollars in RSA but here in the US these are the most recent auction sales. These are costs pre recon, and saftey... dealer gross would add maybe another 5k on top if not a bit more. These are all lower milers with decent condition reports. Again this is a US view with one of the higher fully loaded cars still bringing all the chili:

We get hosed on the pricing in RSA. A base 570 S will cost you about US 270K 600 LT about US 380K. 720 S around US 450K. Government duties really impact prices negatively.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Topspeed

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...&firstRecord=0

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...&firstRecord=0

I've compared both 2017 year models and they're both in the 150's on average on Autotrader, so I don't get the whole concept of the 570S depreciating much more than Turbo S. They seem about the same to me.

In regards to the Blue Turbo S and that price only, its really low due to announcements. The dealer probably bought it for 115k or close.

[Jo-Sta07]

If a turbo S and 720 S were the same price I'd go 720S in a microsecond.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Jo-Sta07

If a turbo S and 720 S were the same price I'd go 720S in a microsecond.

In Canada they are 75K apart in price. You can buy a 570S for about 25K less than a Turbo S. I wanted an all rounder - close to the top performance - and understated - so Turbo S for me .

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by vtknight

In Canada they are 75K apart in price. You can buy a 570S for about 25K less than a Turbo S. I wanted an all rounder - close to the top performance - and understated - so Turbo S for me .

Not to mention a more reliable car.... with a 4/50k warranty vs a 3 year.