Connecting Rod Bearings.. shot

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by Hujan

A class-action lawsuit takes a class rep: Someone whose engine failed and suffered some financial loss as a result. The obvious and most ideal candidate would be someone whose engine failed and had to foot the bill (presumably because the car was just out of warranty).

For the most part, BMW has been replacing these engines, but exceptions exist. I'd love to hear from someone for whom BMW refused to goodwill an out-of-warranty engine that failed due to rod bearings.

Summon @antonio010 !

[Oreokid24]

They put in 10W-60. I found this just now, dated from 8/13:

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport)
vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles
equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil,
BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil
BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

[TheSnail]

That Castrol Edge Professional 5W30 BMW P/N 07 51 0 037 195 comes back as an oil for Diesel engines.

Am I reading this wrong, or BMW saying you can use this lighter oil intended for diesel engines?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Oreokid24

They put in 10W-60. I found this just now, dated from 8/13:

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport)
vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles
equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil,
BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil
BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

Last oil change was done here in Belgium at my BMW/dealer and also with Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil !
And need to say engine runs smoother with EDGE !
BTW.....sad to see about the damn bearings , and wish you good luck with the new S65 !

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

No panic on my behalf my friend I have a spare long block in the event my engine decides to pile up, but give me a break, when have you seen an S65 engine come apart with no rod bearing wear? Most engines will have next to no wear on the bearings with 200K miles. The proof is in the clearances, these engines do not have enough rod bearing clearance plus they are using an oil that is too heavy for said clearances....... A lighter oil will not be a proper fix, but it will certainly help.

We still don't have enough information on how the engines were cared for with the bearings being show on the site. Also, other engines don't have bearing wear at 200K miles, because they don't rev as high. My point was that with the 335I, there was wide spread worry over certain parts. but with proper care, early build cars such as mine, have made it up to 200K miles with intact oem turbos, trannys, and engines.

There are a few other factors that influence bearing wear besides oil thickness, and clearances. Heat build up, and also dirt particles stuck under the bearings during assembly.

Lastly, my point is that if we all think the way you think, then my high mileage M3 makes next to no sense for it to be functioning without any issue. Proof positive that it is NOT a universal issue.

[X5-User]

Originally Posted by Oreokid24

They put in 10W-60. I found this just now, dated from 8/13:

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport)
vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles
equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil,
BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil
BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

Can you please elaborate on this as well?

[Killerfish2012]

The 5W30 is for the M1, and possibly new M3's not The S65

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

We still don't have enough information on how the engines were cared for with the bearings being show on the site. Also, other engines don't have bearing wear at 200K miles, because they don't rev as high. My point was that with the 335I, there was wide spread worry over certain parts. but with proper care, early build cars such as mine, have made it up to 200K miles with intact oem turbos, trannys, and engines.

There are a few other factors that influence bearing wear besides oil thickness, and clearances. Heat build up, and also dirt particles stuck under the bearings during assembly.

Lastly, my point is that if we all think the way you think, then my high mileage M3 makes next to no sense for it to be functioning without any issue. Proof positive that it is NOT a universal issue.

FYI, Heat build up is a result of inadequate clearance and oil that is too heavy to flow at low temperatures also causes bearings to get hot as a result of oil starvation/cavitation.

No S65 bearings that I have seen have shown signs of wear due to extended oil change intervals/lack of maintenance. In fact, even at the full BMW service interval for the TWS 10W60 still has some TBN remaining showing it is still serviceable. As for the contamination under the shells, I have seen the photos where that happened, but that was only in two instances, (maybe three) out of all of them, and even those bearings had not failed as a result of it, they just had added wear directly above the debris.

As for your M3 being fine at 100K miles, that is definitely possible. If the tolerances on all of your rods are at the max of spec and your crank journals are at the min of their spec you may have an S65 with around 0.0018" of oil clearance on the rods which would be just fine and should last a long time. Will all S65's suffer rod bearing failure, of course not, but many will.

Don't forget that I own one of these cars too and I am no more happy about this than you are, but I understand and accept the issue. If you intend on keeping your M3 plan on inspecting/replacing the bearings at some point, it may save you $20k.

[chris719]

How can we guarantee that the replacement bearings don't have a worse tolerance stack than before? Is Plastigauge good enough?

Also, the wear seems to be most aggressive on a few cylinders. Is there a way to determine clearance on these after the fact? I would be curious to know if it's looser, tighter, etc.

[Oreokid24]

I had the oil changed every 7500 miles or so. I didn't beat the car at all, no track time, rarely red-lined it. Original owner.
Here is where I got the oil listing:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by TheSnail

That Castrol Edge Professional 5W30 BMW P/N 07 51 0 037 195 comes back as an oil for Diesel engines.

Am I reading this wrong, or BMW saying you can use this lighter oil intended for diesel engines?

The oil is not just for Diesel engines, it is certified for use in gasoline engines as well. And the answer is yes, you can use that oil in your M3 according to BMW USA.

Diesel engines are far more taxing on oils due to much higher valve train loads as a result of their higher valve spring seat pressure and higher compression ratios. Diesel engine oils as a rule are more robust hence BMW recommending this particular oil for the S65.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Oreokid24

I had the oil changed every 7500 miles or so. I didn't beat the car at all, no track time, rarely red-lined it. Original owner.
Here is where I got the oil listing:]

The only oil recommended by BMW for the S65 is Castrol 10W60.
Ring BMW AG and they will absolutely confirm that.

[redpriest]

Was told the 5w30 oil was for the new M3/M4 the other day when I went to pick up a quart of 10w60.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by DTM Fan

We have seen many out of warranty, many within original and CPO's. Some have been "good will" calls from BMWNA, others have been left with the bill. I agree it only takes one. It's unfortunate we've seen so many... From stock, modified, vendors and random.
BMW did allow a change in the "recommended oil". Ironically watching the verbiage they used. We don't see or hear all stories regarding the rod bearings. My local SA informed me they've seen 3 within 30 days in June. A week later a very well known performance shop suffered the same. None of those individuals are on this forum.

If you know any, feel free to recommend that they PM me. I might be able to help.

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Summon @antonio010 !

Who is "antonio010"? Is that someone whose engine failed and had to pay for a replacement out of pocket?