08-24-2021, 07:20 PM | #67 | |
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You're referring to LSD, limited slip diff. Which I am not 100%, but I believe all M5s have it since they do a diff service with the break in service. |
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08-25-2021, 12:04 PM | #68 | |
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Drives: F90 M5 / F15 50i
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but yes typical low numbes from dinan to keep it "safe" but costs just as much if not more than everyone else.
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09-10-2021, 10:21 PM | #70 | |
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ECU, TCU, and the something MB specific called a PTCU/CPC tune (powertrain control unit / central powertrain controller) because it limits torque and even then, after like $6k in tunes (lol) you're still gonna get smoked by an f90 by a good 0.2-0.3s 60-130 |
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09-10-2021, 10:22 PM | #71 | |
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you want to spend the money to upgrade to better connecting rods + rod bearings so you don't bend a rod (aka prevent problems), but trusting a 3rd party shop to disassemble and reassemble your engine is an almost surefire guaranteed way to actually cause problems lol |
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09-10-2021, 10:24 PM | #72 | |
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Not only that, a great way to blow your already weak engine (compared to M177) is with a bad tank of gas, let alone a bad tank of 2 types of gas of varying quality (E85 ranges wildly at the pump, as I'm sure you know) |
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09-10-2021, 10:26 PM | #73 |
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I don't know, I have the finger on the trigger to buy an F90 coming from a W213 because I'm tired of that clunky shitty 9G MCT and the fact that despite making 680whp, the car isn't actually fast. I just don't have the balls to pull the trigger knowing it's the same (effectively) S63TU F10 motor with a few changes here and there. I blew up my S63TU stock. $80k+ dealer repair bill since they said it locked in a way that harmed the transmission + diff. Sure, they were milking it, but still.
I wouldn't even PRETEND to consider having ANY powertrain warranty with a 2018+ BMW after you press "flash" on a tune. They literally log data in the ABS module (and others) to prove your car was overboosted/driven harder than stock allows. |
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09-12-2021, 04:10 PM | #74 |
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Sorry to spam this thread, just a data point that came across my desk this week.
A friend of mine has a friend in California who bent 3 rods on his F90 M5 running a bootmod3 off-the-shelf stage 1 E30 tune. I'm sure a lot could be said that 91ACN + questionable quality E85 (no clue if the guy actually tested/measured it properly) but to blow an entire engine on a stage 1 tune?... That's about all I need to know on whether or not this engine has been revised enough to be considered stable/strong F10 -> F90. One tuner friend of mine said to keep the torque below 680ftlb at the wheels, and change the power curve to deliver max power at 5k RPMs. To me, I think you're still rolling the dice. Jealous of all of those stage 2 E50 blend people getting 5.77s 60-130 though, it's a killer car that smokes the W213 when it works properly. Just sucks that it's a ticking timebomb. |
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09-12-2021, 04:42 PM | #75 | |
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09-12-2021, 05:26 PM | #76 |
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You guys don’t know about weak rods. Go look at the Audi 2.5 rs3/ttrs. My builder sees or hears about 1 a week windowing, it’s to much torque (this is the usual issue on all stock motors). Though I built my rs3 motor I probably wouldn’t do it again. I would have stayed stage 2 93.
Though High octane aggressive tunes can pushing and could destroy an engine, I would say it’s very common. The ones mentioned above do not define all conditions since we don’t know the details but I can honestly say an agree tune on shit gas will hurt a motor. Key is good tuning, logging, good fuel and knowing when to not push it. Personally I believe some people should own certain cars especially modifying them. I do not believe these are ticking time bombs, but adding bigger turbos/ meth and I think your pushing it to far for the rods. Btw would love to read or hear about the ones mentioned, till than I do not see it as being a data point. Would be nice to see or hear it was logged prior etc instead of saying a friend of a friend etc… I’ve actually seen first hand experience of some intense abuse on a stock motor with pure turbo / meth making 1000 hp again on stock motor (stage 3 every bolt on you can throw at it). After beating the every loving shit out of it multiple track days He sold it to my friend and he beat the piss out of it and forgot to fill up the meth, then it started smoking. They can take a lot of abuse but you need the right person taking care of it. Last edited by brad65ford; 09-12-2021 at 05:56 PM.. |
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09-12-2021, 05:38 PM | #77 |
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The real question is, how many people bent rods running a proper octane gas? I bet most did it on 91+ 3 gallons of E85, and any that did most likely did easy to do mistake like accidentally leaving it in fith or sixth gear and low speed and since most tunes will allow full boost at 1800 rpm, that's a recipe for disaster.
I just don't understand the logic in getting a tune and not running a mix of race gas or at very least running a decent octane booster like boostane to give yourself some headroom on a 120k+ car with a minimum 20k+ engine rebuild cost. The car is BARELY ok on 91, if your running a tune you should be running at min 95AKI (not RON), mixing race gas or boostane to get there. E85 is too variable to be trusted and plus it maxes out your fuel trims making you run lean. If you wanna play you gotta pay. Bent rods are not caused magically because 100 more HP is being pushed. It's not the HP thats doing it, its the knock. Last edited by Sophisticated Redneck; 09-12-2021 at 05:50 PM.. |
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09-12-2021, 05:41 PM | #78 | |
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09-12-2021, 05:59 PM | #79 |
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I don’t tune my car but like reading about the stuff. It’s cool what people can do with these cars.
Anyway only commenting to say how irritating it is I can only get 91 here in CA. I have thrown a little race gas in before but at $10/gallon it’s not likely to be a habit. |
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09-13-2021, 05:41 AM | #81 |
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09-13-2021, 08:07 AM | #82 |
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Engines are fine, Its the tunning companies setting people up to fail. They remove the safeguards and headroom BMW has in place and then tell people pump gas is ok. Then all it takes is one mistake like getting some shit gas or hitting 1/2 throttle or more why your accidentally in manual mode in a high gear at low speed and boom, bent rods since tunes make it so you can hit full boost very early in the rpm band.
Bottom line: run race gas mixed to 95AKI or octane booster mixed to 95 or meth with ANY tune or save 30k for a rebuild with Carillo rods that can take knock from pump gas. I don't understand the logic on spending 20-30k so you don't have to mix race gas or octane booster but to each their own. |
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09-13-2021, 09:19 AM | #84 |
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I will never understand this tuning thing especially on a car like the M5. If I was to tinker with a car and risk destroying it, it would be a much less expensive car I would not mind destroying. I guess everything is relative and maybe for those tuning the M5 they do not mind trashing an M5.
BMW probably has legions of engineers designing and testing these cars over years during the development phase. The tuners and their customers think they know better I guess. Then when the altered cars blow it is BMWs fault because they have weak engines. |
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09-13-2021, 10:02 AM | #85 | |
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Definitely don’t want to push the throttle too hard in a high gear at low rpm. If guys don’t know that, they shouldn’t be messing with their cars. |
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09-13-2021, 10:12 AM | #86 | |
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09-13-2021, 01:11 PM | #87 | |
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The second is the headroom BMW leaves being removed. Let's address the elephant in the room: How this this extra power is made? Tune companies, ALL of them, are not Gods that have figured out something BMW didn't know in their own engines to squeeze out another 100+ hp. They simply increase boost, timing, and fueling to their max, removing the buffer BMW and other car manufacturers leave for instances like when you significant other puts in 87 octane accidentally, or you in Arizona running it's crap 91 gas and it's 117 degrees out in stop and go. Yes there is skill in doing this correctly but at the end of the day, that's all any of these tunes do. They use up the headroom BMW leaves. The real crime is then telling people it's ok to run 91 pump gas. Bottom line, nothing is free. If you tune your ride, you have to add back in a safety margin such as mixing in race gas, octane booster, meth or deal with th consequences when they come. One way or another your going to pay. |
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09-13-2021, 01:43 PM | #88 |
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It's an addiction and I like many here have it BAD, there is never enough, every single car or truck I have ever owned I tuned in one form or another. Sex is the only thing to me that is better, and honestly compared to my first wife, speed wins every time
With that being said, as long as you tune you ride and are smart about it, your not going to bend rods. Here are my data points: My friends F85 is at 87k miles stage 3 tune with zero issues for past 30k miles, he runs 50/50 water/meth mix and boostane as and insurance policy. My brother in law has a F90, stage 3 and runs a mix of race gas and 91 since he still has his cats and didn't want to use octane booster (octane booster will start to clog your cats if you use it every fill up for 10k+ miles, it takes time but it does happen). He has 41k miles and tuned it 20k miles ago. My 173k mile, original N63 engine(the F90 engines grandfather) X5 that is tuned & JB4'd to it's limit (580hp is all you can get out of stock n63 turbos and intakes) is still going strong and I abuse it daily and it's still running low 12's, I only used boostane mixed to 96AKI. It pushes 22psi. It arguably has a rougher life then the S63TU3 in an F90. I am pushing it to the choke point of it's tiny turbos, and it weighs 5400lbs. It would be like taking an M5 and removing the forged pistons and installing 10 year old weaker designed rods and smaller turbos, then tunning it to it's limit and towing a 1000lb trailer, then beating the piss out of it every day for 80k miles. Had I not adjusted the octane, it would have destroyed itself long ago as it has been tuned for 80k of it's 173k miles. TLDR: If you tune your ride, do it intelligently, adjust your octane accordingly and your engine will last. Last edited by Sophisticated Redneck; 09-13-2021 at 01:50 PM.. |
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