[mundo74]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

For what the M5 is designed, a modern luxurious cruiser, the ZF8 fits perfectly for that purpose. I've tried both DCT and the new ZF8 and in "normal" driving, it is the same. Maybe on paper DCT is still faster, but can you feel it?

If you want more driver engagement, go with a M2 or Porsche. Car companies are segmenting vehicles for very different needs. No longer does the M line mean what it use to mean for all and that is not a bad thing, just revolution. After all, M5 sales have skyrocketed and as a business, M needs to sell as much car for people buying them. As oppose to a handful of us enthusiast, which is dwindling in number every year.

hate to say it but I have to agree with you. the market has been deciding against MT and DCT and light weight for a while now.

[gtenedio]

*insert violin music here*

please drive an f90 prior to ranting about tranny changes
the numbers showed in the f10 that no one cared about the manuals.
the feedback shows that most prefer ZF over DCT.

welcome to 2019, friend. enjoy your stay.

[josec70]

^^^this^^^ and .... thank you, next

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by gtenedio

*insert violin music here*

please drive an f90 prior to ranting about tranny changes
the numbers showed in the f10 that no one cared about the manuals.
the feedback shows that most prefer ZF over DCT.

welcome to 2019, friend. enjoy your stay.

again. I'm afraid you are right but it doesn't mean I have to like it. just means the f90 have moved low on my list for replacement options. I will like the AT when I see them in high performance cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini and dare I say ford and GM.

to really put this to bed I wonder what the split would be if the F90 offered a DCT and the ZF8AT.

[Nikolov]

Originally Posted by mundo74

to really put this to bed I wonder what the split would be if the F90 offered a DCT and the ZF8AT.

I think it's fairly obvious, based on the opinions in this and other threads. More than 80% of the cars would be ZF8 and only a handful would be DCT.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by Nikolov

I think it's fairly obvious, based on the opinions in this and other threads. More than 80% of the cars would be ZF8 and only a handful would be DCT.

maybe you are right and maybe it's time for us knuckledraggers to move on. if I was into to 2 doors the new vette would be on the top of my list.

[bradleyjs]

I’m quite happy with my ZF8. It does have a downshift anomaly from 3rd to 2nd about 3% of the time I drive it. It only “seems” to act up - ever so slightly when quickly decelerating. My ‘06 550i drives somewhat similarly, so I’m mainly used to its behavior. I just took her for a 15 min spin and she drove perfectly. Otherwise, I love it. No worries here!

[MysticBlue]

After 10 years of DCT use in my E92, I would most definitely have opted for DCT in the M5 that I just ordered. I love it, and almost never drive it in auto mode, whether on the street or the track. I never thought of it as a replacement for an auto and never compared it like some people do, saying it's not as smooth. If you drive around with your DCT in auto mode all the time, then yes, you might as well have a conventional AT. As far as how fast it shifts, there is a little more to it than just shifting speed. There is also the fact that there is never an interruption in torque being applied to the wheels. In fact, at the most aggressive shift settings, you get the advantage of rotating mass kicking in with each shift. Measuring "shifting speed" is kind of a nebulous thing in a DCT because at full acceleration, the next gear is already engaged and as one clutch disengages and the other clutch engages, there is some overlap, so you could say that the time it takes to shift is 0. And at less aggressive shift settings, I don't see how it could be any smoother than it is. When I drive it around town, I drive it just like I would a manual, and it's as smooth as any auto, unless I don't want it to be. I understand that it is a little heavier, and the clutches aren't up to handling the higher torque. And automatics have incrementally gotten better and better to the point that the performance difference is pretty minimal. So if I gotta sacrifice and live with an auto, so be it. But I still love my DCT after all these years.

[gtenedio]

Originally Posted by Nikolov

I think it's fairly obvious, based on the opinions in this and other threads. More than 80% of the cars would be ZF8 and only a handful would be DCT.

more like 98%

[IancoleTX]

No issues with the ZF8 in my Comp. it does what I tell it to, when I tell it to do it. Lightning-fast shifts under full throttle. Dead reliable, not sure what else you want in an auto box.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I'll drive an F92 M8 to see what it is like compared to my F13 M6 but the amount of X5M, F90 M5, M140i, M850i, X3 m40i and 650i I've driven with the zf8 is scaring me away at the moment.

Did some flatout 1-3 upshifts and downshifts while braking with M850i. M850i was frankly disastrous even in its fastest shifting mode; nearly half a second delay on upshifts and terrible response on downshifts.

F90 M5 (non comp) did upshift better but downshifts were slow just like the M850i. No hardware or software components related to shifting mechanism changed for the M8 so you will most likely be underwhelmed comparing to F13 M6 DCT.

Originally Posted by IancoleTX

No issues with the ZF8 in my Comp. it does what I tell it to, when I tell it to do it. Lightning-fast shifts under full throttle. Dead reliable, not sure what else you want in an auto box.

Upshifts are fine with F90 M5.

The main issues are:
1. the hesitation of downshifts under braking; and
2. inconsistent shifting after repeated laps in manual mode due to overheating.

These weren't issues with DCT.

So much for what used to stand for ///Motorsport for decades..

[Elanderholm]

Right, because the m-brand has always stood for fast shifting transmissions. Bmw manuals were nothing special in the past. My evo and s2000 both shifted much better. Smg was baaaad. The dct in my f10 was good, but jerky. This transmission is a good compromise while handling bigger power. People that focus on a single aspect of a car are weird. The overall package is superior to anything in its class, imo..so....

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Elanderholm

Right, because the m-brand has always stood for fast shifting transmissions. Bmw manuals were nothing special in the past. My evo and s2000 both shifted much better. Smg was baaaad. The dct in my f10 was good, but jerky. This transmission is a good compromise while handling bigger power. People that focus on a single aspect of a car are weird. The overall package is superior to anything in its class, imo..so....

They got it spot on with engagement and speed with M DCT, but they are going backwards on both with ZFat.

To be honest, I don't care too much about the shift speed. BMW tranny may not have been the smoothest, but it was always one of the most engaging and precise transmissions. My E92's shift feels secure revving out each gear and shifting at 8500 rpm.
I would rather have them go back to SMGIII shifts if they can be made reliable. They are fast when you are on it.