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      03-26-2019, 03:40 PM   #1
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Porsche 991.2 Turbo S vs F90 M5

First impressions since I drove the TTS home Thursday and had rotator cuff surgery Friday. One arm driving rules !!

TTS exhaust will never sound as good as the F90 with res delete. Can't beat the V8 rumble.

TTS on my scales is 3570lbs. 700 lbs lighter than the F90. You can really feel that weight drop on the back roads. The S is more nimble, turn in is quicker, etc. Awesome handling ride. I like it much better than the Z06 I had.

F90 interior finish is soo nice, I rate them equal.

F90 is quieter cruising and rides a bit softer.

TTS is a bit lower, but is easy to access.

TTS sitting position surprised me. I'm 6'3" and it is VERY comfortable . Great visibility . MUCH better than the Z06 and equal to the F90.

TTS is the best Sports Car I have ever owned, F90 is the best Sports Saloon I've ever owned.

TTS glitch is the Auto Engine Stop defaults to On on every key cycle. Have to turn it off, buy a module or turn on Sport each time to keep the engine running...sorry programming.. X3 loaner I had did the same thing.

Dragy Shootout Times soon. Gut feel is the stock TTS is slightly quicker than the RaceChip F90....but not by much.
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      03-26-2019, 04:01 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
First impressions since I drove the TTS home Thursday and had rotator cuff surgery Friday. One arm driving rules !!

TTS exhaust will never sound as good as the F90 with res delete. Can't beat the V8 rumble.

TTS on my scales is 3570lbs. 700 lbs lighter than the F90. You can really feel that weight drop on the back roads. The S is more nimble, turn in is quicker, etc. Awesome handling ride. I like it much better than the Z06 I had.

F90 interior finish is soo nice, I rate them equal.

F90 is quieter cruising and rides a bit softer.

TTS is a bit lower, but is easy to access.

TTS sitting position surprised me. I'm 6'3" and it is VERY comfortable . Great visibility . MUCH better than the Z06 and equal to the F90.

TTS is the best Sports Car I have ever owned, F90 is the best Sports Saloon I've ever owned.

TTS glitch is the Auto Engine Stop defaults to On on every key cycle. Have to turn it off, buy a module or turn on Sport each time to keep the engine running...sorry programming.. X3 loaner I had did the same thing.

Dragy Shootout Times soon. Gut feel is the stock TTS is slightly quicker than the RaceChip F90....but not by much.
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      03-27-2019, 08:06 AM   #3
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Baaaam nice Tom, post pics. I think you will be just fine turning the dial to turn off the auto start/stop as its really no difference than pushing the M1 button once or twice (unless you dont do that).
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      03-27-2019, 09:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Dragy Shootout Times soon. Gut feel is the stock TTS is slightly quicker than the RaceChip F90....but not by much.
You are a lucky man! I'm still amazed that the F90 M5 is mentioned in the same breath with the the Porsche TTS. For the four door sedan to be even close (even with the Racechip) to the effortless launch of the Porsche is amazing. I'm sure the Porsche would kill the M5 on a twisty mountain road, but that's acceptable, it is a sports car. I'll look forward to your further comparisons, thanks for posting.
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      03-27-2019, 11:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Baaaam nice Tom, post pics. I think you will be just fine turning the dial to turn off the auto start/stop as its really no difference than pushing the M1 button once or twice (unless you dont do that).
One other fuddy duddy comment...Porsche should have moulded a bottle holder into each door card. Dang Germans...lol... Obviously , I have a thing for black on black...
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      03-27-2019, 01:43 PM   #6
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Great mini review.
Porsche 911 always have better handling than any cars in the same generation.
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      03-27-2019, 02:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
One other fuddy duddy comment...Porsche should have moulded a bottle holder into each door card. Dang Germans...lol... Obviously , I have a thing for black on black...
hahaha if they are gonna miss the beat on the something Im ok with Porsche missing the stable cupholders. I will admit that the glove compartment holders are weak sauce but considering the entire package...
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      03-28-2019, 05:44 PM   #8
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Congrats on new car
Enjoy it in good health!
Beautiful car, more pictures please.
This is one of mine favorite cars.
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      04-07-2019, 09:07 PM   #9
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350 mile update. Fixed the drink holder problem. Bought two of these and they really work well with 17-20 oz bottles of water. Mandatory mod. The TTS rides very well in comfort mode. Very slightly stiffer than my F90 in comfort mode. Probably equal to a F90 Comp. Easily a long haul cruiser.

F90 interior is equal to the TTS. I am a leather snob. Merino leather is equal to Porsche leather. Fit and finish is equal also. The BMW Vernasca leather in my wife's X5 is not comparable. My X5M Merino was very good.

One minor issue is a dash squeak in the TTS. Inexcusable. I'm OCD with rattles, etc. My X5M was perfect for 32,000 miles. Wife's X5 is perfect. F90 had a minor console rattle that I fixed with some weather strip. Still working on the TTS.

PDK trans is awesome. But the F90 trans is pretty good too. No major wins here.

Ceramic brakes are killer. F90 still brakes are killer. A wash except for no dust on the ceramics.

TTS has a boost gage. Major win.

From a price point perspective, the ride, drive, feel, look, ambiance, quality feel, etc. should be in the same price tier, but are not.....F90 is quite a BARGAIN. OVERACHIEVER.

150 more miles and LC will be activated and Dragy results. 5600rpm launches will be fun. Back to back wot break in 130mph runs in the TTS does show a bit of boost cut on the second run around 110mph as the air to air intercoolers heat up. F90 air to water has an advantage here. But I have a fix.

Thanks to Vic55 for talking me into the TTS. 720S I was looking at would just have been like a faster ZO6 that I owned for 6 months.
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      04-07-2019, 09:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
350 mile update. Fixed the drink holder problem. Bought two of these and they really work well with 17-20 oz bottles of water. Mandatory mod. The TTS rides very well in comfort mode. Very slightly stiffer than my F90 in comfort mode. Probably equal to a F90 Comp. Easily a long haul cruiser.

F90 interior is equal to the TTS. I am a leather snob. Merino leather is equal to Porsche leather. Fit and finish is equal also. The BMW Vernasca leather in my wife's X5 is not comparable. My X5M Merino was very good.

One minor issue is a dash squeak in the TTS. Inexcusable. I'm OCD with rattles, etc. My X5M was perfect for 32,000 miles. Wife's X5 is perfect. F90 had a minor console rattle that I fixed with some weather strip. Still working on the TTS.

PDK trans is awesome. But the F90 trans is pretty good too. No major wins here.

Ceramic brakes are killer. F90 still brakes are killer. A wash except for no dust on the ceramics.

TTS has a boost gage. Major win.

From a price point perspective, the ride, drive, feel, look, ambiance, quality feel, etc. should be in the same price tier, but are not.....F90 is quite a BARGAIN. OVERACHIEVER.

150 more miles and LC will be activated and Dragy results. 5600rpm launches will be fun. Back to back wot break in 130mph runs in the TTS does show a bit of boost cut on the second run around 110mph as the air to air intercoolers heat up. F90 air to water has an advantage here. But I have a fix.

Thanks to Vic55 for talking me into the TTS. 720S I was looking at would just have been like a faster ZO6 that I owned for 6 months.
I continue to subscribe - thank-you for the update! A little worried about heat soak after my issues with the stock C7Z. One or two pulls should not be creating power loss on a turbo car.
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      04-07-2019, 10:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
350 mile update. Fixed the drink holder problem. Bought two of these and they really work well with 17-20 oz bottles of water. Mandatory mod. The TTS rides very well in comfort mode. Very slightly stiffer than my F90 in comfort mode. Probably equal to a F90 Comp. Easily a long haul cruiser.

F90 interior is equal to the TTS. I am a leather snob. Merino leather is equal to Porsche leather. Fit and finish is equal also. The BMW Vernasca leather in my wife's X5 is not comparable. My X5M Merino was very good.

One minor issue is a dash squeak in the TTS. Inexcusable. I'm OCD with rattles, etc. My X5M was perfect for 32,000 miles. Wife's X5 is perfect. F90 had a minor console rattle that I fixed with some weather strip. Still working on the TTS.

PDK trans is awesome. But the F90 trans is pretty good too. No major wins here.

Ceramic brakes are killer. F90 still brakes are killer. A wash except for no dust on the ceramics.

TTS has a boost gage. Major win.

From a price point perspective, the ride, drive, feel, look, ambiance, quality feel, etc. should be in the same price tier, but are not.....F90 is quite a BARGAIN. OVERACHIEVER.

150 more miles and LC will be activated and Dragy results. 5600rpm launches will be fun. Back to back wot break in 130mph runs in the TTS does show a bit of boost cut on the second run around 110mph as the air to air intercoolers heat up. F90 air to water has an advantage here. But I have a fix.

Thanks to Vic55 for talking me into the TTS. 720S I was looking at would just have been like a faster ZO6 that I owned for 6 months.
Great info. An enjoyable read. I like your punchy writing style, too.

If you want a retrofit boost guage, the JB4 can help but, of course, that's no replacement for an analog dial in your guage cluster. That said, why is that particular stat so important?
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      04-08-2019, 07:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
I continue to subscribe - thank-you for the update! A little worried about heat soak after my issues with the stock C7Z. One or two pulls should not be creating power loss on a turbo car.
Single pass is fine. Non stop second pass you can feel it around 110/115 on up to where I stopped at 130mph. Plus the boost gage was down 2-3psi
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      04-08-2019, 08:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Great info. An enjoyable read. I like your punchy writing style, too.

If you want a retrofit boost guage, the JB4 can help but, of course, that's no replacement for an analog dial in your guage cluster. That said, why is that particular stat so important?
It’s just the engineer wonk in me. Always looking for data at a glance on performance runs. Logs are great, but I’ve saved a couple of new tune 1500hp engines on the dyno by watching an AFR display I rigged.
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      04-08-2019, 09:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
350 mile update. Fixed the drink holder problem. Bought two of these and they really work well with 17-20 oz bottles of water. Mandatory mod. The TTS rides very well in comfort mode. Very slightly stiffer than my F90 in comfort mode. Probably equal to a F90 Comp. Easily a long haul cruiser.

F90 interior is equal to the TTS. I am a leather snob. Merino leather is equal to Porsche leather. Fit and finish is equal also. The BMW Vernasca leather in my wife's X5 is not comparable. My X5M Merino was very good.

One minor issue is a dash squeak in the TTS. Inexcusable. I'm OCD with rattles, etc. My X5M was perfect for 32,000 miles. Wife's X5 is perfect. F90 had a minor console rattle that I fixed with some weather strip. Still working on the TTS.

PDK trans is awesome. But the F90 trans is pretty good too. No major wins here.

Ceramic brakes are killer. F90 still brakes are killer. A wash except for no dust on the ceramics.

TTS has a boost gage. Major win.

From a price point perspective, the ride, drive, feel, look, ambiance, quality feel, etc. should be in the same price tier, but are not.....F90 is quite a BARGAIN. OVERACHIEVER.

150 more miles and LC will be activated and Dragy results. 5600rpm launches will be fun. Back to back wot break in 130mph runs in the TTS does show a bit of boost cut on the second run around 110mph as the air to air intercoolers heat up. F90 air to water has an advantage here. But I have a fix.

Thanks to Vic55 for talking me into the TTS. 720S I was looking at would just have been like a faster ZO6 that I owned for 6 months.

Haaa I knew you would not tolerate those cupholders. Good stuff Tom. I really have to say that the while the 720s has piqued my interest (just cause of the sheer speed) I know that I would agree with you about the TT-S or is that vice a versa . I guess its why I keep going and coming back. I leave the TT-S because I go and try the latest and greatest but then I realize, if its not broken why fix it.

FYI I have never found the boost gauge in any of my TT's or TT-S's to be accurate. But maybe you can delve deeper and verify?

One last note, there are always naysayers who say "991's are a dime a dozen" but I always and I mean always neck bend when I see a wide body with 305's cruising down the road. Heck my lowly Cab is a widebody and rocks 305's. I need to get a Porsche once again after the NSX wears off (its still going strong).
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      04-08-2019, 04:58 PM   #15
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Some hard IAT data from the Porsche today. 73F ambient. 10 to 105mph pass. Definitely will pull a bit of boost up top. DME is programmed to start pulling at 120F IAT. With the "logging lag factor" I was probably at 110 F at 105mph with a starting 82F IAT. Easily would hit 120F before a 1/4 mile pass. Especially with a LC launch. Makes sense that I've read a bunch of different trap speeds for stock 991.2's. Will not hurt ET much at all, but it will drop mph, especially in the 1/2 mile. On a positive note, the airflow design over the IC's is killer good. Off the chart I posted it peaked at 110F and started dropping fast under coast. Score one for Porsche. When I heal up, I have a set of CSF intercoolers that should combine the great Porsche duct airflow with superior thermal drop to keep the IAT's under 120F.

On a side note, the factory gage was a bit slower than the DME by 0.50 to 1.0 psi of boost. Not bad for a quick visual. However, if you add boost over stock, the gage delta will probably increase.
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      04-08-2019, 05:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Some hard IAT data from the Porsche today. 73F ambient. 10 to 105mph pass. Definitely will pull a bit of boost up top. DME is programmed to start pulling at 120F IAT. With the "logging lag factor" I was probably at 110 F at 105mph with a starting 82F IAT. Easily would hit 120F before a 1/4 mile pass. Especially with a LC launch. Makes sense that I've read a bunch of different trap speeds for stock 991.2's. Will not hurt ET much at all, but it will drop mph, especially in the 1/2 mile. On a positive note, the airflow design over the IC's is killer good. Off the chart I posted it peaked at 110F and started dropping fast under coast. Score one for Porsche. When I heal up, I have a set of CSF intercoolers that should combine the great Porsche duct airflow with superior thermal drop to keep the IAT's under 120F.

On a side note, the factory gage was a bit slower than the DME by 0.50 to 1.0 psi of boost. Not bad for a quick visual. However, if you add boost over stock, the gage delta will probably increase.
Good data and I think that thats what I feared on my boost gauge (since I was tuned/modded)-- change creates a bigger delta.
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      04-10-2019, 06:56 PM   #17
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The TTS earned my respect today. Took it on a +100 mile trip. On the way back, without turning the car off, I staged it with LC and ran the times below. I had to brake hard at 100mph so the 1/8th mph is a tad low, but not by much. The 1/8th ET is also tad slow, but very minimal since it was on the top end. I was only testing 0-60mph. At the DA of 3500ft, pure stock, 3/4 tank of fuel, 100 mile heat soak drive on Pirelli's, I was pleasantly surprised. Car has bones ! 0-60mph in 2.79 seconds actual and a 2.58 second pass like the Magazines test with 1FT rollout.....
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      04-10-2019, 10:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
The TTS earned my respect today. Took it on a +100 mile trip. On the way back, without turning the car off, I staged it with LC and ran the times below. I had to brake hard at 100mph so the 1/8th mph is a tad low, but not by much. The 1/8th ET is also tad slow, but very minimal since it was on the top end. I was only testing 0-60mph. At the DA of 3500ft, pure stock, 3/4 tank of fuel, 100 mile heat soak drive on Pirelli's, I was pleasantly surprised. Car has bones ! 0-60mph in 2.79 seconds actual and a 2.58 second pass like the Magazines test with 1FT rollout.....
Looking great T! Any 60-130 pulls? 6.7 1/8th ET is pretty strong despite the MPH (which was likely due to braking) - but as I don't have to remind you - your DA sucks. Car has bones is right...
My car came today - I go to see it tomorrow.
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      04-10-2019, 10:28 PM   #19
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Looking great T! Any 60-130 pulls? 6.7 1/8th ET is pretty strong despite the MPH (which was likely due to braking) - but as I don't have to remind you - your DA sucks. Car has bones is right...
My car came today - I go to see it tomorrow.
First and only pass so far.

I'm excited for you ! The more miles I pile on, the more I like this ride !
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      04-11-2019, 12:05 AM   #20
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First and only pass so far.

I'm excited for you ! The more miles I pile on, the more I like this ride !
Thanks T - I will post the pics tomorrow on Rennlist. Car is PDI'd and I am shipping it straight to my detailer for PPF, tint and Ceramic Pro - so it is unwashed and the interior wrapped up.

I'm super excited. Still working on the C7Z - but I have some leads.

Subscribed to all of your threads!

Cheers!
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      04-11-2019, 09:16 AM   #21
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Im so jazzed that you both have and will have TT-S's. Every damn day I look at them sitting at the local stores via Cars.Com or the direct dealer web sites. Im tempted but I have some other things in play right now so I have to stand down and live thru you two vicariously.

Its interesting as Im a Rennlist member too but really never posted much of my P car acquisitions there. I think I really only focused on the GT3 there as an OP but my other Turbo's were just posted as part of other threads along with the GTS Cab. I have found that posting here really gives us a sense of understanding of all cars that are good and not just the Roundel. The F10 M5 Versus section was really my home for so many years until this F90 disease got me dizzy in a good way.

Please post threads here too guys; we need it so others and myself can continue to improve our perspective of brilliant cars.

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      04-11-2019, 09:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Im so jazzed that you both have and will have TT-S's. Every damn day I look at them sitting at the local stores via Cars.Com or the direct dealer web sites. Im tempted but I have some other things in play right now so I have to stand down and live thru you two vicariously.

Its interesting as Im a Rennlist member too but really never posted much of my P car acquisitions there. I think I really only focused on the GT3 there as an OP but my other Turbo's were just posted as part of other threads along with the GTS Cab. I have found that posting here really gives us a sense of understanding of all cars that are good and not just the Roundel. The F10 M5 Versus section was really my home for so many years until this F90 disease got me dizzy in a good way.

Please post threads here too guys; we need it so others and myself can continue to improve our perspective of brilliant cars.

onfireX5 vtknight
Totally agree. I would not have bought the TTS without your comments. This section does open up windows in different perspectives. If I were 30, it would have been 720S all day long. My only car in my 20's was a used 1978 TA that was modded to the hilt. Open side pipes...could barely talk to someone inside on the Interstate . Drove that car everywhere (with a tool box in the trunk) every day for years. Now I think a 2017 ZO6 has too much road noise....
Appreciate 1
vtknight966.50
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