[Aidinf]

Hi All,

I just moved to the US and looking for a car. I have a G80 so decided to upgrade a bit and go for a F90.

I saw one, a brand new 2023 with all features but the ceramic brake and premium sound in the dealership. Its sticker price is $118k.

I was offered a 36 month lease with $2000 down and $2024 monthly payment.

The car will worth $67400, at the end of lease.

Is it a good deal?

This lease option is new for me so my question might look simple but confusing for me.

TIA

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by Aidinf

Hi All,

I just moved to the US and looking for a car. I have a G80 so decided to upgrade a bit and go for a F90.

I saw one, a brand new 2023 with all features but the ceramic brake and premium sound in the dealership. Its sticker price is $118k.

I was offered a 36 month lease with $2000 down and $2024 monthly payment.

The car will worth $67400, at the end of lease.

Is it a good deal?

This lease option is new for me so my question might look simple but confusing for me.

TIA

We need all of the exact terms from your deal sheet, and a window sticker or an exact list of all equipment before any of us can render an opinion. With that being said, this isn't a great deal based on what you've provided so far.

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

We need all of the exact terms from your deal sheet, and a window sticker or an exact list of all equipment before any of us can render an opinion. With that being said, this isn't a great deal based on what you've provided so far.

This is the car

https://www.bmwusa.com/inventory/#/d...83CH07NCL03856

And attached is what I have as the lease deal sheet.

[M5VanHalen]

Originally Posted by Aidinf

This is the car

https://www.bmwusa.com/inventory/#/d...83CH07NCL03856

And attached is what I have as the lease deal sheet.

What is the money factor and residual %? That will determine if it is a a good deal. Also, I highly advise you do NOT pay any money down for a lease. That is because you never get that money back, even if you total the car. I always advise to only do a lease with zero money down and roll everything into the payment since it is always better to invest your cash that put it down on a lease.

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by M5VanHalen

What is the money factor and residual %? That will determine if it is a a good deal. Also, I highly advise you do NOT pay any money down for a lease. That is because you never get that money back, even if you total the car. I always advise to only do a lease with zero money down and roll everything into the payment since it is always better to invest your cash that put it down on a lease.

I think the residual is 57%, $67400.

I'll consider your advice and won't pay the down.

[M3PGH]

be careful, this is a model year 2022, with a 2023 on the lots
I don't see any discount
this should have at least 7-8 % discount
people will tell you here that it does not matter as it is a lease . This is partially true , if you keep the car till the end. But in case , you need to sell a 2022 will be worth less money than 2023
bottom line , this is a bad deal

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by M3PGH

be careful, this is a model year 2022, with a 2023 on the lots
I don't see any discount
this should have at least 7-8 % discount
people will tell you here that it does not matter as it is a lease . This is partially true , if you keep the car till the end. But in case , you need to sell a 2022 will be worth less money than 2023
bottom line , this is a bad deal

Thanks, it does make sense. I hadn't noticed to the MY.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by Aidinf

This is the car

https://www.bmwusa.com/inventory/#/d...83CH07NCL03856

And attached is what I have as the lease deal sheet.

This is basically my car, and I lease it. I have an individual interior trim (+$1080) and my calipers are black (so no price difference for that obviously). The trim is the only price difference. This is a bad deal. Only 10k/miles year. As others have noted, this is '23 pricing for a '22.

There are east coast dealers doing 7 to 8% off with brokers right on this forum, and west coast dealers doing 4%. An aggressively motivated dealer should even do a point or two points better than 4%.

Knew there had to be some extras thrown in. "All season package" for $1999. What coerced dealer product is that?

Also, $1455 for registration? In Iowa?! That seems to have some inflated added things in there as well. I'd like to know what the itemized list of those charges are if I were you.

Lastly, figure out what the "buy" money factor is right now, and figure out what the dealership is offering you; needless to say, they should be the same for a good deal, thought dealerships are allowed by BMWFS to mark it up by as much as .00040.

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

This is basically my car. I have an individual interior trim (+$1080) and my calipers are black, so no price difference. This is a bad deal. Only 10k/miles year. As others have noted, this is '23 pricing for a '22.

There are east coast dealers doing 7 to 8% off on brokers right on this forum, and west coast dealers doing 4%. An aggressively motivated dealer should even do a point or two points better than 4%.

Knew there had to be some extras thrown in. "All season package" for $1999. What coerced dealer product is that?

Also, $1455 for registration? In Iowa?! That seems to have some inflated added things in there as well. I'd like to know what the itemized list of those charges are if I were you.

First of all, black calliper idea is nice. I was thinking about same composition if I want to build mine.

I learnt a lot from these few posts regarding the price itself. Thanks.

Now, my confusion is the dealer offered me $2042/m with $2000 down for around $122k while if you use BMW official website, it shows $2033/m for $133k vehicle no down, please see attached.

Regarding "all season package", it's a wrap for bonnet. I won't use dealer to do so.

In terms of registration, I'll most likely will buy/order the car from Dallas, where I want to eventually settle.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Thank you very much for the kind words! It's very stealthy with the piano black interior. More low key than my sportier pre-LCI. Originally specced with red, but went black in the end after scratching my red caliper itch with another car.

That's because that deal is is significantly inflated, with help from the dollar amounts mentioned in my previous post.

Those type of advertised deals you see on the manufacturer's website (as opposed to a dealership) are all theoretical (meaning they're not based on a specific car, but based on some configuration of the car), don't typically include dealer discounts (though may include loyalty, military, conquest, etc).

With that being said, prices are normalizing from where we were a handful of months ago. But I don't think we've gotten to $133k cars for $2033/month — yet. The theoretical problem above goes both ways — some dealers are higher than those amounts due to the trend of ADM/not discounting.

Can you figure out the money factor and the sales tax and post it? We could estimate what a better deal would probably be.

[MackSea70]

They did not really adjust the MF or anything - it's not a terrible deal except for the junk fees (2k for PPF, 1.5k for registrations).

I noticed you said you're going to end up in TX. Note, leasing is different in TX. In most states in the US, you pay the sales tax on the total of your lease payment monthly - so for example, in Florida I pay about 95 dollars in sales tax per month. This is great because for someone like me who's traded out of my last two leases, it minimizes the amount of tax I have to pay.

In TX, even on leases the entire value of the car is taxed up front and that's probably rolled into the cap costs.

That said, I ran your numbers thru my model (which is usually a few bucks off what the dealers come up with) - I just went with an MSRP of 120k to cover some of the admin fees (there are minimal registration fees + BMW FS fee of 495). I'm coming up with a payment of $2010 for a 36/10 on a 57 residual and a .00200 MF.

Lease
MSRP $120,000.00
Dealer Discount
Incentives $750.00
Tax $7,453.13
Cap Cost $126,703.13
Residual $68,400.00

Cot of Use $58,303.13
Monthly Cost of Use $1,619.53


MF 0.002
apr 4.80%


depreciation $1,619.53
Rent - $390.21
tax
Monthly $2,009.74

[mitch65]

There is $1500 loyalty for a 2022 M5 this month on a lease, tell them you want that plus at least 5% off msrp, this car has been sitting there for months

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

Thank you very much for the kind words! It's very stealthy with the piano black interior. More low key than my sportier pre-LCI. Originally specced with red, but went black in the end after scratching my red caliper itch with another car.

That's because that deal is is significantly inflated, with help from the dollar amounts mentioned in my previous post.

Those type of advertised deals you see on the manufacturer's website (as opposed to a dealership) are all theoretical (meaning they're not based on a specific car, but based on some configuration of the car), don't typically include dealer discounts (though may include loyalty, military, conquest, etc).

With that being said, prices are normalizing from where we were a handful of months ago. But I don't think we've gotten to $133k cars for $2033/month — yet. The theoretical problem above goes both ways — some dealers are higher than those amounts due to the trend of ADM/not discounting.

Can you figure out the money factor and the sales tax and post it? We could estimate what a better deal would probably be.

Thanks a lot for your help.

I don't know the money factor as when I asked I was told the figures are computer generated, so the dealer didn't know it.

Regarding tax, I was told it will be paid portion, I think according to the depreciation rate.

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by MackSea70

They did not really adjust the MF or anything - it's not a terrible deal except for the junk fees (2k for PPF, 1.5k for registrations).

I noticed you said you're going to end up in TX. Note, leasing is different in TX. In most states in the US, you pay the sales tax on the total of your lease payment monthly - so for example, in Florida I pay about 95 dollars in sales tax per month. This is great because for someone like me who's traded out of my last two leases, it minimizes the amount of tax I have to pay.

In TX, even on leases the entire value of the car is taxed up front and that's probably rolled into the cap costs.

That said, I ran your numbers thru my model (which is usually a few bucks off what the dealers come up with) - I just went with an MSRP of 120k to cover some of the admin fees (there are minimal registration fees + BMW FS fee of 495). I'm coming up with a payment of $2010 for a 36/10 on a 57 residual and a .00200 MF.

Lease
MSRP $120,000.00
Dealer Discount
Incentives $750.00
Tax $7,453.13
Cap Cost $126,703.13
Residual $68,400.00

Cot of Use $58,303.13
Monthly Cost of Use $1,619.53


MF 0.002
apr 4.80%


depreciation $1,619.53
Rent - $390.21
tax
Monthly $2,009.74

This is what exactly I was looking for!

Now I have an indicative figure helping me to find out how much I'm being ripped off.

Regarding tax, it was a great advise! In Iowa the tax is calculated like Florida. It's bad that TX gets the entire tax upfront, in payments.

Can I buy a car from Iowa and use it in TX?

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by mitch65

There is $1500 loyalty for a 2022 M5 this month on a lease, tell them you want that plus at least 5% off msrp, this car has been sitting there for months

Actually, I didn't know about the loyalty but I asked the dealer about discount, he said unfortunately no discount on this car.

I agree that this car has been sitting for a long time. The dealer is not that much keen to find a customer, I feel.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by Aidinf

Thanks a lot for your help.

I don't know the money factor as when I asked I was told the figures are computer generated, so the dealer didn't know it.

Regarding tax, I was told it will be paid portion, I think according to the depreciation rate.

You're welcome!

"I was told the figures are computer generated, so the dealer didn't know it."

This is the biggest (and one of the boldest) BS I have ever heard. They literally cannot configure a deal without inputting money factor. Insist that if it is not disclosed to you, you won't go through with the deal. Ask them to show you what (and from where, this dealer has shown you already they'll overtly and blatantly lie about anything and everything) BMW's buy rate is, and you won't go through without it. You can't cross shop different deals properly without it either.

That irritates the hell out of me, and this isn't even my lease. Some shady scum dealer BS.

EDIT — MackSea70's post about the money factor is right, he's got the math right there, but I'd still want to know exactly what it is. I would never configure any lease on any car without knowing exactly what it was, and to confirm I'm getting the buy rate.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Also, check this out:

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=29522699

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

You're welcome!

"I was told the figures are computer generated, so the dealer didn't know it."

This is the biggest (and one of the boldest) BS I have ever heard. They literally cannot configure a deal without inputting money factor. Insist that if it is not disclosed to you, you won't go through with the deal. Ask them to show you what (and from where, this dealer has shown you already they'll overtly and blatantly lie about anything and everything) BMW's buy rate is, and you won't go through without it. You can't cross shop different deals properly without it either.

That irritates the hell out of me, and this isn't even my lease. Some shady scum dealer BS.

I cannot be more agreed with you. Money factor, or interest rate, should be clear for the customer. I didn't push for it as I realised I can wait and order what I exactly want.

As an example, I prefer white interior, which is rare in the inventories. Or, premium sound. So, I'll search and try to find a dealership which is more clear/honest with the customer, then I will order mine.

As a different topic, I was asked to pay $5000 to order. Is this common?

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by Aidinf

I cannot be more agreed with you. Money factor, or interest rate, should be clear for the customer. I didn't push for it as I realised I can wait and order what I exactly want.

As an example, I prefer white interior, which is rare in the inventories. Or, premium sound. So, I'll search and try to find a dealership which is more clear/honest with the customer, then I will order mine.

As a different topic, I was asked to pay $5000 to order. Is this common?

You should definitely order what you want, especially if you can get 4% off on it. Obviously, the lease price is calculated based on the selling price of the car. So even if you order, money factor is still at play if you lease it.

Some dealers want deposits, I don't think it's entirely off base. 5,000 is the higher end. I put 2,000 on my ordered car. Just makes sure to get in writing that it's refundable, at the very least until you get to the status code that stops from you changing options, but ideally even up to the point that the car arrives at the dealership if you want flexibility. I thought I ordered the perfect car for me, and everything was going to work out great, and it did not, and I ended up needing to get that deposit back (which I did — reputable dealer, multi car previous customer).

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

You should definitely order what you want, especially if you can get 4% off on it. Obviously, the lease price is calculated based on the selling price of the car. So even if you order, money factor is still at play if you lease it.

Some dealers want deposits, I don't think it's entirely off base. 5,000 is the higher end. I put 2,000 on my ordered car. Just makes sure to get in writing that it's refundable, at the very least until you get to the status code that stops from you changing options, but ideally even up to the point that the car arrives at the dealership if you want flexibility. I thought I ordered the perfect car for me, and everything was going to work out great, and it did not, and I ended up needing to get that deposit back (which I did — reputable dealer, multi car previous customer).

Does your dealer offer 4% discount with $2000 deposit, subject to finance/lease? If yes, I'm happy to order the car tomorrow provided I have the car in 5/6 months. I prefer to have an individual paint.

If you don't mind me asking, where about do you leave, in which state? I'm happy to buy this car wherever provided I can drive it in Iowa and Texas.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by Aidinf

Does your dealer offer 4% discount with $2000 deposit, subject to finance/lease? If yes, I'm happy to order the car tomorrow provided I have the car in 5/6 months. I prefer to have an individual paint.

If you don't mind me asking, where about do you leave, in which state? I'm happy to buy this car wherever provided I can drive it in Iowa and Texas.

PM'ed.

[Aidinf]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

PM'ed.

PM'ed