[vtknight]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Wise , And trust me it is far from slow even with just an exhaust . The real fun is how it corners and puts the power down in spirited driving , a 4300 pound sedan just can't compete with that .
G

There is something to that point. I am fortunate to have a fairly powerful car that I race - and a solid all rounder (I'm not sure if OnFire still has his). So I don't need to mod the Turbo S and could just enjoy it as it is. That said - I know my nature lol. I will start out by just enjoying the car and see what happens. Even ESMotors have to crack the box - so I will wait as I do not like that.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by vtknight

There is something to that point. I am fortunate to have a fairly powerful car that I race - and a solid all rounder (I'm not sure if OnFire still has his). So I don't need to mod the Turbo S and could just enjoy it as it is. That said - I know my nature lol. I will start out by just enjoying the car and see what happens. Even ESMotors have to crack the box - so I will wait as I do not like that.

I like the rationalization but getting to know you and your posts on the boards and your prior rocking history; you will mod the Turbo S. Why, cause you can and you know how prevalent and rather easy it is to mod the 991.2 (not to mention how cheap for the hp/tq gains)

Of course this is conjecture on my part but Im fairly confident in my prediction.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I like the rationalization but getting to know you and your posts on the boards and your prior rocking history; you will mod the Turbo S. Why, cause you can and you know how prevalent and rather easy it is to mod the 991.2 (not to mention how cheap for the hp/tq gains)

Of course this is conjecture on my part but Im fairly confident in my prediction.

Lol...you are very likely correct.

Sigh.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

There is something to that point. I am fortunate to have a fairly powerful car that I race - and a solid all rounder (I'm not sure if OnFire still has his). So I don't need to mod the Turbo S and could just enjoy it as it is. That said - I know my nature lol. I will start out by just enjoying the car and see what happens. Even ESMotors have to crack the box - so I will wait as I do not like that.

Yep, still have it. I totally hand built this car myself with my wife. It will be here when I am gone. It makes me smile on the way to work. It makes me smile when I read that someone is trying to go 180mph in the 1/2 mile, when this one has gone 184 in half that distance......

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Yep, still have it. I totally hand built this car myself with my wife. It will be here when I am gone. It makes me smile on the way to work. It makes me smile when I read that someone is trying to go 180mph in the 1/2 mile, when this one has gone 184 in half that distance......

It's hard for people to realize how fast 184 MPH is in the 1/4 mile. And how difficult every MPH is - and even more so how difficult every tenth of a second is at these levels.

I feel the same way about these builds however, as they are so challenging, with so many ups and downs, that they become like family members. I have a refreshed build coming out this season after 3 years of the car sitting around (it was parted out). I have not touched 180 in the 1/4 - but this build should be capable of it (not 184, maybe 180). As a comparison - my car made 1642 awhp. On the 1500 awhp setting I have topped out at 176 MPH (average 173). In theory the additional power would get me to 180 - but it will take that additional 142 awhp for just four MPH. We didn't go full power as the head would lift back in the day (that has been fixed now). This limited my cars best run at 8.3 at 173 MPH. I'm hoping for a 8.0 or maybe a 7.9x at 178+ this season just to say I did it lol.

As another comparison - to Onfires post about 1/2 mile; my C7Z makes about 850 whp and ran 178 MPH in the 1/2 mile. Less MPH that his car did in half the distance. My car at that event was the fastest manual car.

Modding is certainly fun - but the further you go - the more heart it takes. I see today's youth being angry their 1000+ whp build doesn't drive exactly like stock, and perform every single time without breaking. They also get angry when the car is in the Shop - that it "takes too long" - and they can't bear to be away from their car. Bigger build modding is not for them. These cars break because although there are a ton of bespoke/forged parts - most of the connecting/supporting parts of the car are not. I have rented out the track - which is painfully expensive - have two passes and break something small (which cannot be fixed at the track) - and have to go back to the Shop. Testing and tuning is a huge process. If you don't use boost per gear and launch this car exactly so - you will either bog or snap axles/diffs.

There is a key tipping point for most cars - R35 GTR's are 625-650 awtq - before you bend a rod and about 800ish awhp before you break 1st and fourth gear (I know it's strange that fourth gear is weak - but it is lol). C7Z - the LT4 engine is quite stout with forged rods from factory so its potential is high - but the LT1 engine for the base car - although it has kind of forged rods - it's pistons are literally junk - and it has about a 650-700 whp limit.

I am quick to find these limitations for any car I am interested in buying. The one thing about the Porsche Turbo's is they are stout. There was worry after the 997 - that the new 991's would be weak in comparison as the 997's and earlier gen cars were based on the Mezger engine in the GT1 cars. But as it turns out- the 991's are tough. That said - I do not think I will do any swapping out of the turbos because then the Shop time chances are much higher. With only bolt ons and a flash/Tune - it is much much easier to manage and with a good relationship with your Dealership - you can get away with quite a bit. Plus from what I am seeing - the FBO/tune is not causing too many issues out there for the trans/clutch or engine - so my chances to just enjoy it are much higher (I will only do dig runs at the track - so that helps enormously as well).

The 991.2 Turbo S can be a low 10 second car at high 130's - maybe even touching a 140 flat with only tune and FBO - which is enough for me at this stage of my tuning and modding life. The reason I ever really looked at the 720S was because it is a 9 second car at 145 MPH - bone stock lol. I moved away from it because the Mclarens - at least the early units - weren't the best made. And the maintenance is pretty high (which I understand being a 400K car). Plus it is a lot more expensive and it's depreciation is super steep (which is great when you first but it but...).

So the Turbo S is the way to go at my level. Slightly larger turbos in the S - wait for the true crack of the stock tune through the OBD port - and maybe exhaust/DP's. I won't be able to pick up this car until next season anyway.

It gives me time to see what Onfire does with his lol...

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

It's hard for people to realize how fast 184 MPH is in the 1/4 mile. And how difficult every MPH is - and even more so how difficult every tenth of a second is at these levels.

I feel the same way about these builds however, as they are so challenging, with so many ups and downs, that they become like family members. I have a refreshed build coming out this season after 3 years of the car sitting around (it was parted out). I have not touched 180 in the 1/4 - but this build should be capable of it (not 184, maybe 180). As a comparison - my car made 1642 awhp. On the 1500 awhp setting I have topped out at 176 MPH (average 173). In theory the additional power would get me to 180 - but it will take that additional 142 awhp for just four MPH. We didn't go full power as the head would lift back in the day (that has been fixed now). This limited my cars best run at 8.3 at 173 MPH. I'm hoping for a 8.0 or maybe a 7.9x at 178+ this season just to say I did it lol.

As another comparison - to Onfires post about 1/2 mile; my C7Z makes about 850 whp and ran 178 MPH in the 1/2 mile. Less MPH that his car did in half the distance. My car at that event was the fastest manual car.

Modding is certainly fun - but the further you go - the more heart it takes. I see today's youth being angry their 1000+ whp build doesn't drive exactly like stock, and perform every single time without breaking. They also get angry when the car is in the Shop - that it "takes too long" - and they can't bear to be away from their car. Bigger build modding is not for them. These cars break because although there are a ton of bespoke/forged parts - most of the connecting/supporting parts of the car are not. I have rented out the track - which is painfully expensive - have two passes and break something small (which cannot be fixed at the track) - and have to go back to the Shop. Testing and tuning is a huge process. If you don't use boost per gear and launch this car exactly so - you will either bog or snap axles/diffs.

There is a key tipping point for most cars - R35 GTR's are 625-650 awtq - before you bend a rod and about 800ish awhp before you break 1st and fourth gear (I know it's strange that fourth gear is weak - but it is lol). C7Z - the LT4 engine is quite stout with forged rods from factory - but the LT1 engine for the base car - although it has kind of forged rods - it's pistons are literally junk - and it has about a 650-700 whp limit.

I am quick to find these limitations for any car I am interested in buying. The one things about the Porsche Turbo's is they are stout. There was worry after the 997 - that the new 991's would be weak in comparison as the 997's and earlier gen cars were based on the Mezger engine in the GT1 cars. But as it turns out- the 991's are tough. That said - I do not think I will have any swapping out of the turbos because then the Shop time chances are much higher. With only bolt ons and a flash/Tune - it is much much easier to manage and with a good relationship with your Dealership - you can get away with quite a bit - plus from what I am seeing - the FBO/tune is not causing too many issues out there for the trans/clutch or engine.

So a low 10 second car at high 130's - maybe even touching a 140 flat - is enough for me at this stage of my tuning and modding life. the reason I really looked at the 720S was because it is a 9 second car at 145 MPH - bone stock lol. I moved away from it because the Mclarens - at least the early units - weren't the best made. And the maintenance is pretty high (which I understand being a 400K car).

So the Turbo S is the way to go at my level. Slightly larger turbos in the S - wait for the true crack of the stock tune through the ODB port - and maybe exhaust/DP's. I won't be able to pick up this car until next season anyway.

It gives me time to see what Onfire does with his lol...

Very, very comprehensive post that should be read by all new modders.

I installed 8 different Turbos, 4 different engines, 4 different transmissions, I forgot how many torque converters, on the Hawk until I reached my goal. For 40 years I was caught up in “faster, faster,faster”. Fun , but a TREMENDOUS amount of work. Finally changed my ways. I have a 5 position switch in the center console. It stays on position 1 now. That is an 8.85 at 158mph pass. Keeps it simple. Position 3 is the video posted above. Not doing that anymore. Spun the entire pass.

Now I just enjoy my definition of “Overachiever “ with Blunt Force Acceleration. The F90 is there “for me”. TurboS, I hope so....

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Very, very comprehensive post that should be read by all new modders.

I installed 8 different Turbos, 4 different engines, 4 different transmissions, I forgot how many torque converters, on the Hawk until I reached my goal. For 40 years I was caught up in “faster, faster,faster”. Fun , but a TREMENDOUS amount of work. Finally changed my ways. I have a 5 position switch in the center console. It stays on position 1 now. That is an 8.85 at 158mph pass. Keeps it simple. Position 3 is the video posted above. Not doing that anymore. Spun the entire pass.

Now I just enjoy my definition of “Overachiever “ with Blunt Force Acceleration. The F90 is there “for me”. TurboS, I hope so....

Thanks Onfire - and again we are on the same page. All new cars have the FBO and tune limit for me.
The multiple changes, swaps, breaks, fixes, changes, testing, tuning - repeat - over 2+ years was a great experience that I will cherish - and one I do not need to repeat. I also have boost map adjustability on the fly in the car and it also produces a high 8 second pass at about 160 MPH - which is exactly where I will keep it lol.

[onfireX5]

Just made a note to not race any charcoal GTR’s !

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Just made a note to not race any charcoal GTR’s !

Lol...I actually think we are extremely evenly matched...from setting one onward.

And I don't want to break it to prove that point.

[onfireX5]

Found a DynoJet Dyno of a 991.2 TTS before a tune existed. All bolt ons.

- Fabspeed Supersport X-Pipe Exhaust System (Potential power gains Catless)
- Fabspeed Sport Headers (No power gain)
- BMC F1 Replacement Air Filter (Potential minor power gain)
- IPD Plenum & Y-Pipe Upgrades (No power gain...proven many times on the dyno)
- BYDESIGN Intercoolers (No power gains on a dyno)

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Found a DynoJet Dyno of a 991.2 TTS before a tune existed. All bolt ons.

- Fabspeed Supersport X-Pipe Exhaust System (Potential power gains Catless)
- Fabspeed Sport Headers (No power gain)
- BMC F1 Replacement Air Filter (Potential minor power gain)
- IPD Plenum & Y-Pipe Upgrades (No power gain...proven many times on the dyno)
- BYDESIGN Intercoolers (No power gains on a dyno)

I didn't see much from the bolt on portions. Most boards and owners say the tune is king for bolt on setups.

[onfireX5]

Apples to oranges, but a typical M5 DynoJet is 600 - 600 pure stock. Dang Overachiever ! Piggy is King on it too vs bolton’s .

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Apples to oranges, but a typical M5 DynoJet is 600 - 600 pure stock. Dang Overachiever ! Piggy is King on it too vs bolton’s .

There is a reason we trap what we do - these cars have serious potential!

[onfireX5]

Another take :

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...mparison-test/

[CarlosM4]

I have driven a 991.2 Turbo S last week quite extensively. I have to say, what a car it is. It has a compelling breath of ability that not other sports car can match. It is so supremely comfortable, supple and exciting at the same time. It is hysterically fast and absurdly precise. You can be a massive idiot, and it is like the car is ahead of you. Nevertheless you do feel the tail moving around when driving hard, and it is scary because sometimes it feels like it will catch you out. Great finish and transmission too. I can totally see why someone would buy it over the M5, and why someone may come from the 911 to the M5. To my eyes it is the closest competitor, as the RS7 is a generation down and less accurate, and the E63 S is a hot rod sedan (as refined as one too). Love both, but in the end I would keep the M5 due to its massive practicality.

[soooma]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

I have driven a 991.2 Turbo S last week quite extensively. I have to say, what a car it is. It has a compelling breath of ability that not other sports car can match. It is so supremely comfortable, supple and exciting at the same time. It is hysterically fast and absurdly precise. You can be a massive idiot, and it is like the car is ahead of you. Nevertheless you do feel the tail moving around when driving hard, and it is scary because sometimes it feels like it will catch you out. Great finish and transmission too. I can totally see why someone would buy it over the M5, and why someone may come from the 911 to the M5. To my eyes it is the closest competitor, as the RS7 is a generation down and less accurate, and the E63 S is a hot rod sedan (as refined as one too). Love both, but in the end I would keep the M5 due to its massive practicality.

Nice post!

What's not so practical about E63S AMG and RS7?

Or you were referring to TTS?

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

There is a reason we trap what we do - these cars have serious potential!

I've talked to Cobb and GIAC...told them to hurry with OBD2 !

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Another take :

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...mparison-test/

Great article - here's another one...https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by soooma

Nice post!

What's not so practical about E63S AMG and RS7?

Or you were referring to TTS?

I was referring to the TTS.

I would skip the RS7 as it is a generation old and generally not as fun to drive. I would skip the E63 S AMG because it is too harsh and not really that great for people who live in areas with poor road conditions. I love the E63 S in term of its Sporting prowess and exhaust but I could not live with one in my garage.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

I was referring to the TTS.

I would skip the RS7 as it is a generation old and generally not as fun to drive. I would skip the E63 S AMG because it is too harsh and not really that great for people who live in areas with poor road conditions. I love the E63 S in term of its Sporting prowess and exhaust but I could not live with one in my garage.

Just cruising vs cruising, how would you compare the NVH of the F90 to the TTS ? Pirelli or Michelin in the TTS ?

[Maxwell04]

I'm the one who started this thread. Pulled the trigger on a fully loaded M5C in Frozen Dark Silver. Loved my 911 Turbo dearly but have not missed it at all. Totally different thrill factor between the two cars. The speed was instantaneous and could really feel the road and handling in my 911. The M5C handles really well, hides speed a bit more, but has an energy to it that you can't believe something built like a tank can be this nimble and fast!! I'm having the greatest time and I'm still in 1200 mile break in. As soon as I get in the car, I push my M1 button which is programmed to Sport Plus in everything and I use MDM and 4WD Sport.
The only thing I find quirky and a pain in the butt is when you downshift and the car goes into manual, it will not shift itself at redline. My 911 Turbo would always shift at redline no matter how much downshifting and manual you made it....
It's quite a shock when I forget in the M5C and my car jolts back secondary to redlining...
Pic attached

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by Maxwell04

I'm the one who started this thread. Pulled the trigger on a fully loaded M5C in Frozen Dark Silver. Loved my 911 Turbo dearly but have not missed it at all. Totally different thrill factor between the two cars. The speed was instantaneous and could really feel the road and handling in my 911. The M5C handles really well, hides speed a bit more, but has an energy to it that you can't believe something built like a tank can be this nimble and fast!! I'm having the greatest time and I'm still in 1200 mile break in. As soon as I get in the car, I push my M1 button which is programmed to Sport Plus in everything and I use MDM and 4WD Sport.
The only thing I find quirky and a pain in the butt is when you downshift and the car goes into manual, it will not shift itself at redline. My 911 Turbo would always shift at redline no matter how much downshifting and manual you made it....
It's quite a shock when I forget in the M5C and my car jolts back secondary to redlining...
Pic attached

Killer color combo ! Since you now have owned a 991.2 and a F90, how would you compare just the NVH of the two cars ?