[marcvtec]

So this little car has been sitting in my garage for a while.
Battery was basically dead, so I bought a Noco G26000 to get it back to life.
After about 3 hours, it was done. So I'm like okay at least let me take it through a touchless car wash.
Here is the kicker.
I actually had more fun in this car then my M5.

I took the top down, holding the button. Fun.
The car is so tiny, it handles really well. Fun.
Loud AMG mufflers. Fun.
And it goes fast, Fun.

I dunno but my big fat ass says it more fun to actually daily drive then my M5 .

[gtenedio]

m5 is not fun. I'm very bored with it coming from an f80 daily

[Vic55]

Proof that speed is not everything--- obviously this is subjective but I personally enjoying driving my 450 hp Porsche GTS more than my tuned F90. The margin is not by alot as the F90 delivers crazy speeds (mine is tuned) but thankfully there is more to the roads I drive than just straights.

Now in defense of the F90 this was your first run in the SLK55 in quite some time Im assuming? If this was a regular ride would it induce the same excitement?

[Earlando86]

I have an X7 and f90 M5 but I definitely want a playful, quirky daily driver: civic hatchback sport touring, cpo 2018 330i sedan, 2020 m235i gc or 2020 m340i.

[CarlosM4]

I have said this multiple times here. The M5 F90 is not an exciting car, it is far too capable. It is far too well behaved and far too powerful, so many times you are scared to go all the way with the throttle. The E63 S is much more exciting in terms of the revs in the engine and the exhaust, a 911 Turbo is also more exciting as it is smaller and more chuckable, and transmits more feel. The M5 F90 is very good and is probably one of the most complete cars ever made, but it is "boring"

[Archimedes65]

Anyone who buys an M5 thinking it is going to be fun in the same way that a small sports car is fun is going to be sorely disappointed. The M5 is a great car but it's not a sports car. It's a big heavy muscle car sedan that, when pushed, can lap a track faster than it really should be able to. But it's not fun doing it.

OP is comparing an apple and an orange.

[Punitive]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

I have said this multiple times here. The M5 F90 is not an exciting car, it is far too capable. It is far too well behaved and far too powerful, so many times you are scared to go all the way with the throttle. The E63 S is much more exciting in terms of the revs in the engine and the exhaust, a 911 Turbo is also more exciting as it is smaller and more chuckable, and transmits more feel. The M5 F90 is very good and is probably one of the most complete cars ever made, but it is "boring"

Truer words couldn't be spoken. By far the most capable and most boring sedan I've owned. Took my E39 out over the weekend and was saddened by the current state of M cars. From muscle car exhaust to vacuum cleaner with fake pop and bangs.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Archimedes65

Anyone who buys an M5 thinking it is going to be fun in the same way that a small sports car is fun is going to be sorely disappointed. The M5 is a great car but it's not a sports car. It's a big heavy muscle car sedan that, when pushed, can lap a track faster than it really should be able to. But it's not fun doing it.

OP is comparing an apple and an orange.

The trouble is that, the M5 feels like a 530e when driving around and pootling around town, and it is monstrously fast and capable, but its performance is inacessible to the average joe as it is too fast. You can only accelerate for 2s, and then spend the next 5s braking. I think it shrinks around very well, its handling is beyond amazing, I have owned some sports cars, and I feel the M5 easily exceeds them in roadholding and handling. The M5 feels a bit bloated and doesn't have the same steering feel, but it is not the car's fault, it is modern electronics.

It sounds boring too. I have Akrapovic Exhaust, and it is loud as hell from the outside, but I can't hear it well inside. The E63 S on the other hand, sounds like a bloody animal stock. It feels far more engaging to drive.

That being said I love my M5, and it is the best car I owned. I had to travel 1000 miles the other day, did the journey with no sweat, drove easily 30-40min at 180-190mph - relaxing. The car is that impressive, but it is boring, albeit I also find the 911 Turbo boring from the same optics.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Punitive

Truer words couldn't be spoken. By far the most capable and most boring sedan I've owned. Took my E39 out over the weekend and was saddened by the current state of M cars. From muscle car exhaust to vacuum cleaner with fake pop and bangs.

Yeah stock exhaust is a joke. It doesn't sound like a 600hp car. It's far too muted.

They have upped the game so much in capability and performance, that the engaging part was ignored. Chris Harris said it very well. He said it is probably the best car in the world, but he preferred the E63 S because he too thought it was a bit "boring"

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Yeah stock exhaust is a joke. It doesn't sound like a 600hp car. It's far too muted.

They have upped the game so much in capability and performance, that the engaging part was ignored. Chris Harris said it very well. He said it is probably the best car in the world, but he preferred the E63 S because he too thought it was a bit "boring"

It’s funny bc IMO an E63S is just as capable and is fun. The GT63S is more capable and fun. A Taycan turbo S is more capable than all, an despite not having any ICE sound is also quite fun. That’s not to say the M5C isn’t fun but I think complete cars sometimes get that. Some people drive 911s and given they are so complete and so good at everything people don’t get to explore the aspects that make them the most complete sporting car out there and the most rewarding to drive (and drive hard).

[Archimedes65]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Yeah stock exhaust is a joke. It doesn't sound like a 600hp car. It's far too muted.

But it's a sedan, not a 458. Making a big five series saloon car sound like a race car is kinda ridiculous, but, either way, it makes far more sense to sell a quiet car and let the people that want noise get it aftermarket.

I think a lot of people really just don't accept what the M5 is. It's simply a very fast, luxury family/executive sedan. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by Archimedes65

But it's a sedan, not a 458. Making a big five series saloon car sound like a race car is kinda ridiculous, but, either way, it makes far more sense to sell a quiet car and let the people that want noise get it aftermarket.

I think a lot of people really just don't accept what the M5 is. It's simply a very fast, luxury family/executive sedan. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree it’s a fast luxury car. To me, the Bmw molded the M5 in the image of the Panamera - luxury, speed, and tech.

I think what may throw people off is all of the M5 track marketing and buyers thinking it’s a nimble, sharp, precision track car, and that it is not.

[Quickburn7]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

It’s funny bc IMO an E63S is just as capable and is fun. The GT63S is more capable and fun. A Taycan turbo S is more capable than all, an despite not having any ICE sound is also quite fun. That’s not to say the M5C isn’t fun but I think complete cars sometimes get that. Some people drive 911s and given they are so complete and so good at everything people don’t get to explore the aspects that make them the most complete sporting car out there and the most rewarding to drive (and drive hard).

I've had the E63s and like a few other members who have had both that car is just not that great. It might be "exciting" for a day or two with the exhaust, suspension tuning and transmission but give it a week and it's easier to live with a GT3 as daily than that car! Suspension is just too harsh, transmission is just rough and the programming is off and the audio video/ tech is a generation behind! Only thing that car has over the M5 is the exhaust note at low revs.

[Archimedes65]

Originally Posted by Quickburn7

I've had the E63s and like a few other members who have had both that car is just not that great. Suspension is just too harsh, transmission is just rough and the programming is off and the audio video/ tech is a generation behind! Only thing that car has over the M5 is the exhaust note at low revs.

Same conclusion that I came to when I cross shopped. If I wanted something that hard edged, I wouldn't be buying a large four door sedan.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Archimedes65

Making a big five series saloon car sound like a race car is kinda ridiculous

BMW circa 2005 would disagree with you.

[dubd]

Agree that the M5 isn't a fun car. I bought it for daily driving and shuttling the kids around while having some push. I have different cars for fun.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by Quickburn7

I've had the E63s and like a few other members who have had both that car is just not that great. It might be "exciting" for a day or two with the exhaust, suspension tuning and transmission but give it a week and it's easier to live with a GT3 as daily than that car! Suspension is just too harsh, transmission is just rough and the programming is off and the audio video/ tech is a generation behind! Only thing that car has over the M5 is the exhaust note at low revs.

I didn’t have an E63S but had two GLC63S Edition 1s and a C63S coupe. I did spend a good amount of time on track with an E63S and really did like it. The suspension was harsh, but I also don’t find the M5C suspension in sport or sport plus to be much better. My 991s are/were far better in the suspension dampening and rebound(ie more comfortable) than the M5C. The f8x M3/4 were even worse in this department. It seems to me Bmw and Mercedes think overly harsh suspension is sporty or maybe that’s the only way to make these cars not feel like Cadillac’s at the expense of comfort. Or they simple don’t know how to do what Porsche and Mclaren can when it comes to stiff yet comfortable and compliant.

Did you have the AMG buckets in your E63S? All of my AMGs had the Performance buckets and do think that makes the car feel a bit stiffer than the comfort seats. Otherwise I did think the Mercedes did the luxury side a bit better and the styling has more wow factor. The exhaust note was better too. The M5 does drive a bit smaller than the E63S and is more nimble.

For me, if bmw could sort out their suspension, the steering and get rid of active sound, I think this car would be improved vastly. It is probably the best BMW they’ve made by a long shot in as long as I can remember though.

[Quickburn7]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

I didn’t have an E63S but had two GLC63S Edition 1s and a C63S coupe. I did spend a good amount of time on track with an E63S and really did like it. The suspension was harsh, but I also don’t find the M5C suspension in sport or sport plus to be much better. My 991s are/were far better in the suspension dampening and rebound(ie more comfortable) than the M5C. The f8x M3/4 were even worse in this department. It seems to me Bmw and Mercedes think overly harsh suspension is sporty or maybe that’s the only way to make these cars not feel like Cadillac’s at the expense of comfort. Or they simple don’t know how to do what Porsche and Mclaren can when it comes to stiff yet comfortable and compliant.

Did you have the AMG buckets in your E63S? All of my AMGs had the Performance buckets and do think that makes the car feel a bit stiffer than the comfort seats. Otherwise I did think the Mercedes did the luxury side a bit better and the styling has more wow factor. The exhaust note was better too. The M5 does drive a bit smaller than the E63S and is more nimble.

For me, if bmw could sort out their suspension, the steering and get rid of active sound, I think this car would be improved vastly. It is probably the best BMW they’ve made by a long shot in as long as I can remember though.

I disagree with you but everyone feels cars differently.
The E63 was just harsh and heavy on the track. The M5 ( I've had both base and comp on the F90 platform) feels much lighter and better on turn in. It will also rotate the rear a lot easier than the E63.

I had the performance buckets on the AMG but that car just was harsh and not sorted properly.

A 4 door sports sedan should be firm but also be able to be used as a daily. The E63 was not comfortable enough in my mind to do that.

Plus I currently own almost every 991 model they made and my M5 is much more comfortable as a daily then all of them. The E63 was about as harsh as my GT2 RS. Yes it did look and sound more aggressive but that's about it. I hope they fix all their issues with the mid cycle refresh.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Quickburn7

I disagree with you but everyone feels cars differently.
The E63 was just harsh and heavy on the track. The M5 ( I've had both base and comp on the F90 platform) feels much lighter and better on turn in. It will also rotate the rear a lot easier than the E63.

I had the performance buckets on the AMG but that car just was harsh and not sorted properly.

A 4 door sports sedan should be firm but also be able to be used as a daily. The E63 was not comfortable enough in my mind to do that.

Plus I currently own almost every 991 model they made and my M5 is much more comfortable as a daily then all of them. The E63 was about as harsh as my GT2 RS. Yes it did look and sound more aggressive but that's about it. I hope they fix all their issues with the mid cycle refresh.

Whats up Sylvain? Whats next in the arsenal; I know you just got the Pista and Spyder right?

I will say that I miss a few things in my Edition 1 E63S: the exhaust (duh) and that amazing Night Black Magno paint. The car looked the part. But yep, it was like a tank over rocks on regular roads (tracks are so much better paved).

[TrevorM3]

was just having this discussion in another thread (tuned f90 vs Mclaren)

simply put, the m5 is fast, but it's boring as hell. jump in a car with less weight, and 100 hp less, i guarantee you'll have more fun "driving"

[Stealth7]

Originally Posted by Archimedes65

Same conclusion that I came to when I cross shopped. If I wanted something that hard edged, I wouldn't be buying a large four door sedan.

+1

Apparently, Mercedes AMG is addressing the suspension harshness issue in their 2021 E63S update. The suspension is what primarily turned me off to that car – that and BMW's decision to offer the Competition edition of the M5! My wife's 2018 AMG C 43 suffers from the same harsh suspension, even on comfort. We live in orange County, California by the beach and the roads are very good so the Mercedes AMG cars do in fact have a very harsh suspension. They really just need one more comfortable setting.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by Quickburn7

I disagree with you but everyone feels cars differently.
The E63 was just harsh and heavy on the track. The M5 ( I've had both base and comp on the F90 platform) feels much lighter and better on turn in. It will also rotate the rear a lot easier than the E63.

I had the performance buckets on the AMG but that car just was harsh and not sorted properly.

A 4 door sports sedan should be firm but also be able to be used as a daily. The E63 was not comfortable enough in my mind to do that.

Plus I currently own almost every 991 model they made and my M5 is much more comfortable as a daily then all of them. The E63 was about as harsh as my GT2 RS. Yes it did look and sound more aggressive but that's about it. I hope they fix all their issues with the mid cycle refresh.

They did wonders on the C63S refresh which I owned so I imagine it will be a step in the right direction. Idk, BMWs suspensions just don’t impress me from a calibration standpoint. Porsche and Mclaren and are heads and shoulders above everyone in that area.
I did love those AMG buckets though!