[Roundown]

Originally Posted by m34m

Very open minded bud. I have an X3 with a slushbox and E92M3 with DCT and M2 with manual. That's pretty open minded. I know what I like. I also attended the M Power Tour in Canada last week where I drove M2/3/4/6 all DCT and X5M and X6M with slushboxes ofcourse. Yes for their size the SUVs performance was excellent around the track but there was a noticeable difference in transmission response and clearly inferior throttle blips. The M6 DCT was superb so why saddle a beauty like the new M5 with a slushbox. As you can see my opinion is informed not a result of closed mindedness. Thanks though. Oh one other thing, where the fuck is the manual!?

I suspect the practical reality of what the M5 has become, vs. what it once was answers most of the "where did the ITBs go?"-like questions.

This thing is more GTR than E39. That's what people want- class leading performance, high horsepower and tech.

If they dumped the S63 for a hand made, high revving V10 (CAFE be damned), you and I might love it, but the mob would be complaining about cost, the torque curve and it's 4-second+ 0-60 time. It'd be a flop.

[roastbeef]

initial thought- i like it.

not too thrilled about the 4wd because of the added weight of the diff/bracing/axle weight associated with it, but it does add to the daily drive-ability of the car. i really like that they allow a 2wd mode.

styling is just ok. i like the last generation styling better. i don't have one, so no bias there, just personal preference.

i don't like how they are adding buttons to the shifter- it is starting to get too busy.

[F32Fleet]

At least the transmission shouldn't slip under WOT. 600hp is plenty for this grocery-getter.

[nozydog]

However good it is... the M5 is now just way too big to be considered a sports car!!

[Jeffe]

Let's call it what it is. This will be an amazing 4 door missile. Definitely less widow-maker and fun than previous gens, but it'll be a stupid fast with great technology.

8 speed auto is lame, I don't care how great they say it is. I will knock it because I have tried it, my dodge truck was an 8 speed auto. The previous DCT was amazing and I actually appreciated the ever so slight jerkiness in first gear. Not a fan of this new decision. Hopefully this is something that changes.

As a guy who loves all things manual trans, I'm obviously bummed it's gone, but I think most reasonable people saw this coming. I get it, it makes sense.

*sigh* I looked at the reveal this week and honestly didn't even care. I miss the old days. At this point, I want the cars from yesteryear. If BMW is going to numb the car this much at least give us the wagon version in the states!

[m34m]

Originally Posted by Roundown

I suspect the practical reality of what the M5 has become, vs. what it once was answers most of the "where did the ITBs go?"-like questions.

This thing is more GTR than E39. That's what people want- class leading performance, high horsepower and tech.

If they dumped the S63 for a hand made, high revving V10 (CAFE be damned), you and I might love it, but the mob would be complaining about cost, the torque curve and it's 4-second+ 0-60 time. It'd be a flop.

Yup agreed. Funny thing though at the event last week people were fighting to get into the M2/3/4 and the M6 and SUVs not so much. The majority were not hardcore enthusiasts and most had never seen a track. Not that the M2/3/4 are the pinnacle of purity but still it seemed that average people were gravitating to what they perceived as the best performers and funnest cars.

[FLOMACKS]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Last one had a DCT, it had as much power as anything else at the time.

And lets face it the F10's styling and interior was leaps and bounds above the W212 and first gen Panamera. Back in 2011 Mercedes and Audi were peddling boxy cars, with plastic dashboards and 7" VGA nav screens. There was no competition for the F10. That's why I bought three of them!

I struggle to articulate any area in which this M5 is better than the competition other than maybe the seats (I say maybe because these thick seats tend to cannibalize rear leg room - with my F10 nobody could sit behind me in the rear so it was essentially a 3 seat car.)

All true. It's just that they make the Euro Delivery so easy. That's the only thing keeping me interested at this point.

[sand99]

I agree with the others who've said to wait for the competition package. While the performance numbers are good, it still feels like the M Division set the bar low so they can gradually introduce improvements over the lifetime of the new car. As others have stated, the horsepower/torque isn't all that different than the F10 M5 30 Jahre.

The 0-60 is dramatically improved thanks largely to the AWD system, which was a good move along with the carbon roof. But lets face it, the M Division is all about maximizing profit nowadays and they're holding back goodies to keep the faithful coming back. We'll probably have to wait for the CS or GTS version to get the full 650+ horsepower package while the comp package will probably deliver 620-630 HP and better-looking wheels.

Because of this, you probably will be able to get this car for ~$65K 3 years from now once the newer versions come out.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

No DCT
No 4 wheel steering
No active anti-roll bars
Less HP than AMG E63S
The rear lower section looks shit.
Tail pipes are tiny.

I'll pass.

I'm passing for different reasons as you know, but most of your reasons are valid sir.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I understand the blasphemy as much as the next guy but damn... performance hard to argue against

Yeah. BMW had to groom this to do battle with the C63 S, Audi RS7, and Panamera TT. We already know the car was locked in at "big" given the G30 platform, and AWD was basically mandated given the torque curve and to achieve the 0-60/62 mph numbers now mandated in this segment. Given all of this, kudos to M for the 2WD mode and serious performance. While it's not for me, I can respect the car and it's purpose. Sure, I'd love it as much as the next enthusiast if BMW made the M5 smaller (well I guess then it wouldn't be an M5), lighter, less powerful and more nimble, and with a MT option, but it wouldn't sell. Oh wait, I've described my F80 M3. No, actually, I've described my E39 M5 (or E34 or E28)...

Originally Posted by Greer

THE QUICKEST M5 YET! This will be my next car. European Delivery here we come.

Fixed that for you. Enjoy your ED and be sure to post a ED trip journal!

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

WHy did they remove DCT?

The torque is too much for the current M-DCT to handle and it must have bene prohibitively expensive to develop an new DCT to handle it. Seems that M felt the new autos are so good it doesn't matter. Early reviews seems to agree. To me, anything that is not a MT is an automatic. Especially if you are not tracking the car.

Originally Posted by Jeffe

I miss the old days. At this point, I want the cars from yesteryear. If BMW is going to numb the car this much at least give us the wagon version in the states!

I guess I miss the old days as well. Because I want BMW to survive as an independent company, I'll keep my "classic" (to me anyway) BMWs and keep supporting BMW as long they offer a DD that appeals to me. That may end when the last MT car is produced, but we'll see.

[STooK]

I'm sure it's a beast and I'll never be able to afford one but they are getting way too advanced (which isn't a bad thing). Now everything is about numbers and maybe that's the reason why these cars seem like they're losing more and more soul.

[superchargedman]

I'm happily out- civic winter duty, gt4 summer, with incoming 991.2 gt3 hopefully if I can get my allocation all sorted.

[scoobysaurus]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Enjoy your ED and be sure to post a ED trip journal!

That sounds so wrong lol

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by scoobysaurus

That sounds so wrong lol

Yeah, as a physician it took me a while to get over that as well, but that's what it is referred to on the board, so...

[BwoodBMW]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Yeah, as a physician it took me a while to get over that as well, but that's what it is referred to on the board, so...

When I was planning my euro trip I had to keep searching for ED and I always worried that somebody would notice I'd been searching on a forum for advice regarding "ED".

That said, I'd ED a new M5 just for the sake of doing the trip again.

[N & M]

Can't wait to drive it. Any word on the competition package?

[AlexLou1222]

Perfect timing! I just just make it when returning my X6M next sep! After 6 months the rate should be normal
This car is exactly for me kind of buyer, I want a luxury rocket than can smoke 95% of the cars on the road, while not killing myself going fast lol

[ASAP]

Somehow I am no longer excited for much that comes out of BMW as before.

How difficult would it have been to simply make the car a bit lighter? Under 4k pounds? Retain rwd / dct and employ more usage of lightweight CF? I would have even retained the power at a nearly similar level as last gen but worked more on the involvement level of the car. What we have really been left with are nearly identical cars in this segment, RS7, M5 and E63 are now all awd heavy tanks w automatics. I basically see a 5 series w xdrive and a reused S63tu motor...

The M2 to me is basically a 2 series w an N55 and an LSD and dct...

The M5 is an xdrive 5 series w an 8spd auto.

At least the M3 got an entirely reworked engine, has a DCT and feels special outside of the sound.

[m3m3m3]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

No DCT
No 4 wheel steering
No active anti-roll bars
Less HP than AMG E63S
The rear lower section looks shit.
Tail pipes are tiny.

I'll pass.

Totally agree.

But on the bright side, if I get the F90 M5, I can finally say my M5 is faster than my wife's B6 (600hp, AWD, slushbox tranny..) oh wait I don't need the F90 M5, the B6 has pretty much all of it

[Neil McRae]

Originally Posted by vicslick146

Is it me or does each generation of M5 seem like we're getting less and less value, to the point where the F90 feels like a ripoff..? The M5 used to be... I dunno, special? We used to get bespoke engines and transmissions and suspensions... The E39 engine had 8 individual throttle bodies... The E60 was a freegin V-10 that revved to 8500 rpm! With the F-10, was disappointed the engine was largely sourced from the stock engine, but at least it had a high performance DCT tranny.... With the new M5, what the heck is the M-premium going towards exactly...? The profit margins for the F-90 must be through the roof.... Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the new car will be quick for sure, and I'm fully aware of that the sole purpose of any business is to make money, period. But as a long time m enthusiast and current F-10 driver, it's just a little sad I guess.....

For sure, but its either that, or no more of these cars. Same is true for other brands.

[Neil McRae]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

No DCT
No 4 wheel steering
No active anti-roll bars
Less HP than AMG E63S
The rear lower section looks shit.
Tail pipes are tiny.

I'll pass.

lol.

I think you should drive it first !

Neil.

[Neil McRae]

Normally I'd buy an M car without driving it and know that BMW will deliver. But with a borderline M4 and this going towards 4wd and auto box I'm a little worried about it. So I'm waiting until I can drive one before I decide.

The F10M is an epic car, one of the best M cars ever and the two I've had have been bulletproof. I'm not giving that up in a hurry.

Neil.