[Boss330]

Originally Posted by CntryClub007

Gotcha, are you saying that electric parking brake is integrated into the non-fixed piston caliper that we've seen, or there is physically a separate parking brake caliper? Only reason I say this is because I thought my neighbors Model S with fixed piston calipers all around had an extra caliper on the rear for the parking brake, so I guess it's weird that BMW M wouldn't do similar?

I still can't get over that rear rotor / pad surface contact area, it's huge!

On the "option", that was purely me wearing my BMW Market / Operating Income hat ...but sounds like it may be technically not feasible right now.

Cool to see Brembo releasing a new caliper to the market.

Yes, the electric e-brake is integrated in the rear calipers by means of a stepper motor being connected to the brake piston. The stepper motor mechanically screws/pushes the piston in the caliper.

The Tesla solution isn't ideal in my opinion. Both because it adds unsprung weight but also because it adds mechanical components that needs maintenance and looks like an afterthought...

The F3x/F8x has a drum brake inside the rear brake rotors, which means that they can have compound (or fixed) calipers in the rear since the brake calipers doesn't have to act as e-brakes as well.

[Longboarder]

While I have seen this thing in camo a few times, the first time I actually see the production car will probably be at an airstrip event, and it will probably already be tuned. And real quick off the line.

[Eau_Rouge111]

Originally Posted by ///M Performance

And once again BMW goes the way of the our german mainstream with Audi and Daimler... i don't understand it!

- 8speed automatic is also with a normal converter (wandler) and no DKG -> Audi makes it in the new R8, RS6, RS5, RS4 too.
- xDrive in an ///M Model -> Standard form the RS-Line
- progressive Headlights in Front -> right, Audi Design
- honeycomb structure in the Seats -> Ingolstadt, what else?

If I want to drive an audi, I would have bought one! But whats next? An ///M3 Touring?
Okay, persuaded - i want one

If you mean a M3 touring as in a shooting brake...i'd personally love one

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by ///M Performance

And once again BMW goes the way of the our german mainstream with Audi and Daimler... i don't understand it!

- 8speed automatic is also with a normal converter (wandler) and no DKG -> Audi makes it in the new R8, RS6, RS5, RS4 too.
- xDrive in an ///M Model -> Standard form the RS-Line
- progressive Headlights in Front -> right, Audi Design
- honeycomb structure in the Seats -> Ingolstadt, what else?

If I want to drive an audi, I would have bought one! But whats next? An ///M3 Touring?
Okay, persuaded - i want one

It remains to see how the ZF 8-speed shifts compared to the DCT in the F10. But the problem with a manual type transmission (which the gearsets and basic layout in a DCT is) is that it becomes heavy and not so smooth shifting when we are at the HP and torque levels we are now... Especially combined with AWD and a heavy car the transmission needs to be stronger than ever before in an M5.

If the shift quality is at DCT levels for shift speed in sport modes and smoother in comfort mode. What do you see as the problem with going this route?


Can Audi's Quattro system be switched to RWD only?

Is Audi's Quattro system rear biased in a way that makes the car feel rwd and tail happy?

IMO, BMW has adapted AWD out of customer demand and out of nevessity due to the sheer amount of performance from the engine. And they seem to have done it in an "M kind of way". My guess is that the AWD system will feel just as rear biased (and more so probably) as the Focus RS does. Very much UNLIKE the Audisteer system...

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by ///M Performance

And once again BMW goes the way of the our german mainstream with Audi and Daimler... i don't understand it!

- 8speed automatic is also with a normal converter (wandler) and no DKG -> Audi makes it in the new R8, RS6, RS5, RS4 too.
- xDrive in an ///M Model -> Standard form the RS-Line
- progressive Headlights in Front -> right, Audi Design
- honeycomb structure in the Seats -> Ingolstadt, what else?

If I want to drive an audi, I would have bought one! But whats next? An ///M3 Touring?
Okay, persuaded - i want one

So much this. If you want a AWD fat luxury sedan with a load of power, guess what? MB and Audi already offer that! So what's unique or better about the M5?! Absolutely nothing. MB and Audi have been doing this formula for decades and are way ahead of BMW at it. BMW stood out as the different option offering a more driver focused super sedan. If you take that away, you're literally trying to be like MB and Audi and they already do it better than you. Fail.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by rallybull

It would truly be the best of both worlds if in the 2WD mode it would also shed the extra weight due to the 4wd mechanics.

The car lost 200 lbs with the addition of 4WD/RWD combo and you're still complaining of weight? Really?

[DCG]

Finally BMW you listened!!!

I'm just waiting for the M4 and X4M version with M xDrive!

BMWs automatic transmissions are amazing, but still I want the DCT transmission option, I want to be able to downshift. As someone who only ever owned stick shifts and rides a gas powered motorcycle being able to downshift and not just relying on your brakes to slow down is critical I feel. But with New York traffic popping it in to Automatic mode is wonderful I must admit. As a driver I want to stay in tuned with the car, driving automatics I get distracted and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I could care less about the M5, too big of a car for me and the guys that get these big cars I would presume don't really need the shifting option anyway. But I do care about the new technology and in the M4 and M3 DCT I feel that's it's necessary and wanted.

M xDrive

And the rear wheel drive guys which I was my whole life until now owning an xDrive model and being able to drive it in the snow with sport tires and still be able to make it home safely means a lot. Now we all get the best of both worlds at a push of a button, how genius! Took long enough...

[remmib]

Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf

The car lost 200 lbs with the addition of 4WD/RWD combo and you're still complaining of weight? Really?

Where did it say 200 lbs weight loss?
Evo UK says "slightly lighter than the F10 M5". so I'm guessing only a few lbs lighter.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by remmib

Where did it say 200 lbs weight loss?
Evo UK says "slightly lighter than the F10 M5". so I'm guessing only a few lbs lighter.

Did I misread it? Could have sworn I saw that somewhere.

[ASAP]

my main issue is that now every single car offered is identical... whether mb audi or bmw

they are all auto, awd heavy tanks

i guess this is what people wanted

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf

The car lost 200 lbs with the addition of 4WD/RWD combo and you're still complaining of weight? Really?

I thought it was pretty funny also.
The car already weighs less than its predecessor and WITH the AWD on it all the time. Seems like what he is wishing for has already been done !


I'm not gonna even entertain the part of his wish that defies the laws of physics.

[mkoesel]

Great to have official acknowledgement of what was a very poorly kept secret. Still waiting to hear more details about the ZF8 transmission, specifically what (if anything) has changed from the Series application.

I also wonder if they will fit a specifically tuned version of this system to the future X3M, X4M, X5M, and X6M? While perhaps this isn't necessary, it might actually allow those SUVs to perform better in some tests without sacrificing in other areas. So it seems at least possible.

As for the M3/M4, I believe that they will remain RWD until forced to go AWD by the competition. That might happen as soon as next generation, but unlike cars in the E63/M5 class, engine output has not yet made this necessary. We'll wait to see what Mercedes has cooking for the next C63. That could give indication of where the segment - and BMW - is going.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by swagon

I, for one, applaud them (and AMG) for developing AWD systems so clever that with a press of a button you can turn it into a RWD vehicle.

This isn't a new concept. I had a Chevy Blazer in the 90s that did the same thing.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by remmib

Where did it say 200 lbs weight loss?
Evo UK says "slightly lighter than the F10 M5". so I'm guessing only a few lbs lighter.

Evo magazine said the car still in Camo is 1850 kg/4078.55 lbs. I don't know what measurement they are using curb or whatever. But that's a lot lighter than the curb of the F10 M5 at 4,387 lbs. We will soon get confirmation.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by swagon

I, for one, applaud them (and AMG) for developing AWD systems so clever that with a press of a button you can turn it into a RWD vehicle.

You could do this on pickup trucks since the beginning of time. About time they included this feature since it is rear drive most of the time in xdrive mode anyway.

[MRV99]

First off this car is designed for fat cats to impress their friends in a roomy luxo barge. Just wait when the firsts ones hit the street and the guy who has owned every ///M car bla bla bla states how awesome it is sitting at a stop light, smashing the gas and ripping of supper fast no drama 0-60 to make his fellow fat cats chatter happy then it will be loved by all.

Second, the M5 does not see the track. Yes there is the occasional M5 at a track day but usually they just slow up the run groups. They can't turn yet they blast the straights. So the driver backs up the field at every turn and then blows the field away on the straights until the next turn where another car joins the train.

Lastly, who actually drives M5's to the limits? The M5 drivers in my neck of the woods are not driving like they stole it. They like to show off every now and then but normally they are going from point a--> b

PS.... I just checked and there are still M E39's and M E60's for sale so you can buy a used one and be happy

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

In a few years, fanbois will be saying "A real M car must have 8 speeds and M xDrive!!!"

You heard it here first.

That will be the case when the M5 goes electric and has a 1 speed tranny and no exhaust noise to speak of.

[swifty]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

As for the M3/M4, I believe that they will remain RWD until forced to go AWD by the competition. That might happen as soon as next generation, but unlike cars in the E63/M5 class, engine output has not yet made this necessary. We'll wait to see what Mercedes has cooking for the next C63. That could give indication of where the segment - and BMW - is going.

There is no need for BMW to follow Merc or Audi when it comes to the M3/4. M3/4 are special because they are rwd but moreover because many owners do track it at very least occasionally.

There are many things they could do to make it more drive able before even entertaining awd setup such as controlling the available torque in each gear like 488 etc.

[lm1z]

Originally Posted by e92ben

Why sad? Its lighter, faster, handles better, it's still rwd with the option of awd. Doesn't get much better.. unless your sad about the missing third pedal.

I think it's safe to say that the majority of critics have never owned, let alone driven, an F10 M5 (since we are moving from this generation).

My only critiques of the car were the weight and lack of usable power.

This car is going to be a significant upgrade, as always, from its predecessor.
I'm sure the gearbox will be fantastic. If it isn't, I'll be the first to say it.

[adc]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Great to have official acknowledgement of what was a very poorly kept secret. Still waiting to hear more details about the ZF8 transmission, specifically what (if anything) has changed from the Series application.

I also wonder if they will fit a specifically tuned version of this system to the future X3M, X4M, X5M, and X6M? While perhaps this isn't necessary, it might actually allow those SUVs to perform better in some tests without sacrificing in other areas. So it seems at least possible.

As for the M3/M4, I believe that they will remain RWD until forced to go AWD by the competition. That might happen as soon as next generation, but unlike cars in the E63/M5 class, engine output has not yet made this necessary. We'll wait to see what Mercedes has cooking for the next C63. That could give indication of where the segment - and BMW - is going.

Used to be a time when BMW led these segments, not followed. Or with the E28 M5, created the segments.

You don't find this disconcerting?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by swifty

There is no need for BMW to follow Merc or Audi when it comes to the M3/4. M3/4 are special because they are rwd but moreover because many owners do track it at very least occasionally.

Sure, but the marketplace will determine the direction, just as always. BMW has built an AWD M5 in some part because Mercedes has built an AWD E63. Furthermore, AWD can make the car faster on the track too. As you are no doubt aware, there are plenty of reputable, track-worthy AWD performance cars

There are many things they could do to make it more drive able before even entertaining awd setup such as controlling the available torque in each gear like 488 etc.

I'm sure they will do that too if there is a market for it.

[Radeon888]

Model. Factory Real World 0-60 seconds
E28 M5. 7.1. 6.3
E34 M5. 6.1. 5.6
E39 M5. 5.7. 4.9
E60 M5. 5.2. 4.2
F10 M5. 4.2. 3.6

F90 M5. 3.5. est 2.8?