[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by swagon

Most likely, yeah, time and cost... They can just simply reuse the same slushbox from the X5 M.

I had a look on ZF's website and their 8-speed DCT is rated up to 1,000 Nm, and it is the transmission used in the new Panamera.

Actually it's not. The ZF 8 speed auto is rated to 1000 Nm, not the DCT.

Porsche uses DCT which they called PDK that they co-developed with ZF. So far they do not sell this transmission to other automakers.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Not going to a flop. I believe most M5 buyers are not like the diehards in this forum. They are probably looking for smoother shifts, more comfort, and useable power (AWD). They know what most buyers want than we do.

Seriously, if it was up to us here to design the M5, it will be the size of E39, V10 NA, 3500 pounds, manual transmission, RWD, and etc. It's just not going to happen in today's market.

It was a joke my man. If this thing looks like some of the renders I've seen I'll love it. I love an own a E92 but I like to look at a nice E60 rear every now and then. I wasn't knocking this car at all.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Actually it's not. The ZF 8 speed auto is rated to 1000 Nm, not the DCT.

Porsche uses DCT which they called PDK that they co-developed with ZF. So far they do not sell this transmission to other automakers.

The new 8DT PDK is good for 740 lb ft or 1000nm in communist.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by lemetier

The new 8DT PDK is good for 740 lb ft or 1000nm in communist.

Oh yeah you are right (and apologize to swagon), I guess ZF has updated their website. I haven't seen the new 8 speed dual clutch on there before. Previously only the 8 speed automatic.

So maybe the new M5 could use this transmission then? In the past it seems like only Porsche could buy the PDK (or maybe this box is different than the one they make for Porsche), but the way ZF worded this, it sounds like any automaker can buy it.

[Darkpitiless]

So no more DCT transmissions? I know 8 speed with a P button sounds automatic transmission af. Sad stuff

[N & M]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

But I wonder if 100% RWD mode will allow for 100% power or will they down tune it....

I will tell when I drive it in December.

[giorgioarmani]

awd to rwd switch button seems too good to be true.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by giorgioarmani

awd to rwd switch button seems too good to be true.

Probably invalidates the free 36 month tyre insurance just announced in Europe ...

[Pitkis]

You know what this means...

[RACEM4TE]

Originally Posted by Pitkis

You know what this means...

17th of may release?

[Jez_zza]

Originally Posted by Pitkis

You know what this means...

ok that's interesting... very interesting ... I reckon tease pics + few official specs ... let's see

[Pitkis]

Originally Posted by Jez_zza

ok that's interesting... very interesting ... I reckon tease pics + few official specs ... let's see

Basically this is a small slip from CAR. There should not be any hint of M5 in the post. I thought it would be released much later, but here we go in few days!

[Bowser330]

"Cube shaped" gear selector with p button... so....it's going to be the same as the m550ix?

[MrOhnoez]

For everyone worried about it having a torque converter. Go drive an X5/X6M
It already has the 8 speed ZF auto
It acts almost just like a double clutch. IMO it feels more double clutch-y? than a Z4-35i/is
It doesnt crawl and it feels like a bit of slippage occurs before full takeoff.
and it shifts lightning quick up both upshifts and downshifts
and has the more amazing upshift popping sounds I've heard in a while.
DSG farts from VW on steroids

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by MrOhnoez

For everyone worried about it having a torque converter. Go drive an X5/X6M
It already has the 8 speed ZF auto
It acts almost just like a double clutch. IMO it feels more double clutch-y? than a Z4-35i/is
It doesnt crawl and it feels like a bit of slippage occurs before full takeoff.
and it shifts lightning quick up both upshifts and downshifts
and has the more amazing upshift popping sounds I've heard in a while.
DSG farts from VW on steroids

its interesting that they went to great lengths to erase the natural traits of the 8at to mimic the natural traits of the dct.

it used to be the m cars had a special gearbox and engine that the rest of the fleet did not have and for that matter, the competition. now they are all the same.

[DarthColin]

I'm wondering if this car will end up with the ZF 8DT, which is the dual clutch variant, which is all wheel drive capable. It designed to handle 1000 N-m. In the list of applications, only the Panamera is shown. However, I'm thinking all the autopilot and auto park stuff is designed to work with the torque converter, (8HP) version. Like someone mentioned before, I'm sure only those who hold a super licence will be able to notice the difference.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by MrOhnoez

For everyone worried about it having a torque converter. Go drive an X5/X6M
It already has the 8 speed ZF auto
It acts almost just like a double clutch. IMO it feels more double clutch-y? than a Z4-35i/is
It doesnt crawl and it feels like a bit of slippage occurs before full takeoff.
and it shifts lightning quick up both upshifts and downshifts
and has the more amazing upshift popping sounds I've heard in a while.
DSG farts from VW on steroids

Almost will never be good enough. Not for me anyways. Oh and I have driven both the X5M/X6M, on track too. Even the DCT in the M2 is an absolute night and day difference than the Auto in the X5M. You just can't even compare the two.

For anyone who has ever driven a PDK in either a Carrera S, 991 GT3, 991 GT3RS, or Porsche 918 Spyder, you will understand the sheer amazement of what a DCT can really do. Although the PDK in the standard Carrera S isn't even close to the PDK in other higher tier P-Cars, it's still damn good. No Automatic Transmission will ever best a properly tuned and designed DCT. Granted there have been some shitty DCT's from Audi and Mercedes before where the 8Spd Auto in C7 Vette Z06 for example, can shift faster than those, but that is the exception and not the rule.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Almost will never be good enough.

Especially on a M car. These transmissions started life with different missions. One has a viscous clutch for luxury/isolation and the other for performance and visceral feel (closest to a MT). The starting points and makeup are different and you are right that a properly tuned DCT will always outpace the 8AT .

Kudos to Porsche to recognize this.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by mundo74

Especially on a M car. These transmissions started life with different missions. One has a viscous clutch for luxury/isolation and the other for performance and visceral feel (closest to a MT). The starting points and makeup are different and you are right that a properly tuned DCT will always outpace the 8AT .

Kudos to Porsche to recognize this.

Also this. I feel ///M has lost their way.

[phil_]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Also this. I feel ///M has lost their way.

I understood the change from V10 to V8. Didn't like it but went along with it. Stricter emissions and probably reliability were to blame. We lost the high-rev'ing nature but gained loads of torque.

I applaud what they did with the SMG. Although it wasn't perfect they tried something new. For someone, like me, who didn't drive in traffic at all the car was fantastic. The brutal (knock your fillings out) 8250 RPM shifts in S6 felt visceral. In stop and go it was awful and I understood the switch to the DTC for an overall driving experience.

And now for the F90 M5 they're keeping the same engine and dropping the DTC. On the surface it really looks like a step backwards. I hope to be proven wrong, but I'm not very optimistic.

What differentiates the RS7, E63S and M5 now?

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by phil_

What differentiates the RS7, E63S and M5 now?

I don't think the RS7 or E63S will come with a Carbon Fiber Roof. That will be BMW's claim to fame for the next M5. Lol! Otherwise all of the cars in the segment will be identical with Twin-Turbo V8's, AWD, and Auto Transmissions.

[kinimod]

Personally I dislike torque converter based ZFs so much, I can NOT enjoy any car with it. It is garbage compared to a DCT or a Porsche PDK. Torque converter + big turbo engine =

From a standstill especially, the clutch needs to be well synchronized with the turbo torque peak. A by-design laggy converter turbine always messes it up. The car does weird jerks, hesitations and unexpected weight transfers to the front end. All turbo engines with ZF8 I've driven do this EXCEPT diesels.

If one drives a NA engine car with a double clutch, it is obvious how much better it can be.

Let's hope they'll actually use the new dual clutch ZF 8 speed that the Panamera uses.