[bfr]

Dear forum members,

I began my love of BMW about 15+ years ago when I bought my first BMW (a 2000 M Coupe), second BMW (E46 M3) and third BMW (E39 M5). In the past 20 years I have had numerous BMWs including the M vehicles mentioned above. I've never had any significant issue with the vehicles, and was super excited to buy an M5 last year (**without** ceramic brakes) as the ultimate dad car (I have a family of four). The first several months were amazing, and I had no issues at all. I was only putting on about 400-500 miles a month. Starting sometime around May or June I started to notice some minor brake squeal. While I didn't like the squeal, it was minor enough that it didn't really bother me.

Over the course of the summer, the squeal worsened a lot. The squealing was constant and given that most of my driving is urban, all fun has disappeared. If I lived in a place like Texas where I was doing mostly highway driving, I wouldn't be that upset. But, 90%+ of my driving is urban slow going LA traffic with a lot of braking. I saw that some have recommended spraying wheel cleaner on the rotors to temporarily stop the problem. It hasn't worked well for me, nor do I think this is an appropriate remedy either.

I decided to bring the car to my local dealer to get it evaluated. They told me that the squeal is super common and there was nothing to do, other than to submit a complaint with BMW of North America and hope for the best. I submitted the request and after several weeks of review, I got a response from Brian K who said he was the most senior person in his department. He said that they are aware of the issue and it's common. He also said there was nothing they could for me, and offered very little if any remorse for the situation. I tried seeing if there was any way to elevate the complaint, but he held firm that it was impossible.

While I concede I have not had an M car recently, I have never had this issue before on my former M cars, nor have I had on multiple Porsches that I have owned including a GT3 with ceramic brakes.

I do not understand how BMW can get away selling a car with squealing brakes. It's not like you go on their website and this is disclosed with a disclaimer. BMW of North America does not make you sign a waiver of this issue.

I am not looking for snarky responses such as "you should have known what you are getting yourself into" etc. I'm more interested in understanding if there is any path - through the company, through legal means or another way - where I could pursue this and resolve the matter. I do not want to sell this car over a brake squeal either.

Thanks in advance.

[jnotrom711]

view this video. This has been discussed at nauseam on the forum. At about 2:30 the BMW M engineer clearly states that some noise is normal, however a permanent noise is not. Mine seems to be a lot like yours, and it is for sure permanent. Every time coming to stop... It's horrendous and embarrassing. The only time I can get it to stop is to do like 3-4 hard 60-70MPH to 0 aggressive stops. And I mean like aggressive to the point of getting ABS to kick in. The squeal will then stop for the remainder of that drive. But it's back again the next drive. I tried the wheel cleaner thing too, worked for a day. and I agree, thats not a viable solution for a 100k + flagship car.

i'll also add, somewhere recently on the forum someone mentioned that there was changes made to the 2023 models to address this. In my opinion if there was indeed a change in 2023 to address the brake squeal, that tells me BMW has a fix for it, and to some degree they acknowledge the issue is real, so much so they made a hardware change to mitigate it. To me, (im no attorney) it would seem that that in itself is clear evidence they know something isnt right, and should give owners of 2018-2022 models the option to receive the fix that the 2023 models got. (if there was indeed a change). Again, it came from the forum, and I believe it was a dealer service advisor who told this forum member this. and we all know dealer service advisors leave a lot to be desired when it comes to facts and knowledge about the car. Some are great, and very knowledgeable, but more times than not? They're just sales people and dont have a clue.

[bfr]

Would you mind sending a link to the info on this 2023 hardware fix?

[Greer]

To OP,

I just sent you a private message.

[mitch65]

Originally Posted by bfr

Would you mind sending a link to the info on this 2023 hardware fix?

The Manufacturer recently updated the brake pads, see this old post below, they are using them on the 2023 M5's

My M5 really doesn't make too much noise, but my friend's 2020 M5 Comp with Steel Brakes was really bad, so I decided to contact the manufacturer of the pads in Germany, TMD Friction to see why the steel brakes are so loud. They connected me with the project engineer of the pads who advised me that updated Front Brake Pads with Chamfers for the F90 were released in October 2021. They could have made it into F90 production during the 2022 Model Year. We kept checking local dealers here in So Cal to see when the updated pads would show up to order in the parts dept. A few weeks ago they showed up in the system and he was able to purchase and install them. He has 900 miles on them so far and no noise. It's a small sample, so we will see if it stays quiet long term.

[bfr]

In your anecdote, what is the exact name of the replacement brake pad? Also, I assume your friend paid for them himself?

[SSM5]

Originally Posted by bfr

In your anecdote, what is the exact name of the replacement brake pad? Also, I assume your friend paid for them himself?

I posted that info. yes, he paid for them. Just go to your local dealer's parts counter and ask for the updated steel pads for the F90 that became available in June.

[jnotrom711]

just thought of something, and maybe its confirmed already... I have always just assumed the noise comes from the front brakes. Im almost sure it does. However would be interesting if this whole time it's been coming from the rear brakes. Anyone know for certain? Are the new pads being referenced all 4 corners or just fronts?

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

just thought of something, and maybe its confirmed already... I have always just assumed the noise comes from the front brakes. Im almost sure it does. However would be interesting if this whole time it's been coming from the rear brakes. Anyone know for certain? Are the new pads being referenced all 4 corners or just fronts?

I don't have any proof of this, but I had always been under the impression it was my fronts whenever I was in the car (perhaps that's obvious since that's where I sit, so that's where I hear it), but also on the few occasions my previous very squeaky M5 was driven up to me while I was outside of it.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by bfr

Would you mind sending a link to the info on this 2023 hardware fix?

I don't have a link available, but it appears the kind sir who mentioned I in the other thread may have replied here to discuss what I was referencing.

[jm490]

Porterfield and Isweep both make pads that address this issue.

I'm not sure which is better. I've heard people who have both say that it's dramatically reduced. I know it's not oem but if it fixes it I could live with it.

My porterfield pads are in the box being installed next week. Will report back because the stock ones on my 21 M5C are just WAY too loud to live with.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by jm490

Porterfield and Isweep both make pads that address this issue.

I'm not sure which is better. I've heard people who have both say that it's dramatically reduced. I know it's not oem but if it fixes it I could live with it.

My porterfield pads are in the box being installed next week. Will report back because the stock ones on my 21 M5C are just WAY too loud to live with.

I could live with it also if it was a fix. However, (I could be off) but I believe all the threads or most of the folks that have gone aftermarket pads cite the fix being somewhat temporary, and it eventually comes back.

Also, in situations like mine, while I would still do it if it fixed the issue, I have the BMW extended service, and I get brakes, and other maintenance items free until 100K, so it would suck to purchase aftermarket equipment to fix something the OEM should be taking care of. I previously asked the dealer I use for service if I purchased aftermarket pads if they would install them as if they are oem, and was given a very hard NO. which I understand, not being oem, liability etc. but still, would be nice to have SOME option from BMW.

[MSchfiftyFive]

Interesting to catch up on this thread having owned a '21 M5C and now a '23 M5C, both with steel brakes. These brakes will rip your face off if you're not careful in terms of bite but from the time I left the lot in my '21...the squeal at neighborhood speeds. So bad. It was just a "known thing" at the time but it was something you couldn't miss when driving at low speeds. The first thing I noticed about my '23 was the silence, haha, I thought, "oh man they got the pad thing worked out", anyway, seeing this thread makes sense. Only 350 miles on my '23 so far but it's been silent at all speeds. I had prepped myself for that low speed squeal and it's just not there, def seems like change to at least the '23+ pad setup, even if it's only a pad part number revision or the like.

[Egrunt]

Originally Posted by jm490

Porterfield and Isweep both make pads that address this issue.

I'm not sure which is better. I've heard people who have both say that it's dramatically reduced. I know it's not oem but if it fixes it I could live with it.

My porterfield pads are in the box being installed next week. Will report back because the stock ones on my 21 M5C are just WAY too loud to live with.

I have had the Porterfield brake pads installed since my M5 had just over 4k miles, I now have almost 11k miles. The front brake pads are starting to make noise and are not as quiet as when I first installed them. Also the brake dust has returned on the wheels but not at the same level as the stock steel pads.

[jm490]

Originally Posted by Egrunt

I have had the Porterfield brake pads installed since my M5 had just over 4k miles, I now have almost 11k miles. The front brake pads are starting to make noise and are not as quiet as when I first installed them. Also the brake dust has returned on the wheels but not at the same level as the stock steel pads.

Thanks for the feedback that seems more positive than oem. Would you say your happy with them overall? Because the squeaking I get now is unbearable on the oems

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by bfr

Dear forum members,

I began my love of BMW about 15+ years ago when I bought my first BMW (a 2000 M Coupe), second BMW (E46 M3) and third BMW (E39 M5). In the past 20 years I have had numerous BMWs including the M vehicles mentioned above. I've never had any significant issue with the vehicles, and was super excited to buy an M5 last year (**without** ceramic brakes) as the ultimate dad car (I have a family of four). The first several months were amazing, and I had no issues at all. I was only putting on about 400-500 miles a month. Starting sometime around May or June I started to notice some minor brake squeal. While I didn't like the squeal, it was minor enough that it didn't really bother me.

Over the course of the summer, the squeal worsened a lot. The squealing was constant and given that most of my driving is urban, all fun has disappeared. If I lived in a place like Texas where I was doing mostly highway driving, I wouldn't be that upset. But, 90%+ of my driving is urban slow going LA traffic with a lot of braking. I saw that some have recommended spraying wheel cleaner on the rotors to temporarily stop the problem. It hasn't worked well for me, nor do I think this is an appropriate remedy either.

I decided to bring the car to my local dealer to get it evaluated. They told me that the squeal is super common and there was nothing to do, other than to submit a complaint with BMW of North America and hope for the best. I submitted the request and after several weeks of review, I got a response from Brian K who said he was the most senior person in his department. He said that they are aware of the issue and it's common. He also said there was nothing they could for me, and offered very little if any remorse for the situation. I tried seeing if there was any way to elevate the complaint, but he held firm that it was impossible.

While I concede I have not had an M car recently, I have never had this issue before on my former M cars, nor have I had on multiple Porsches that I have owned including a GT3 with ceramic brakes.

I do not understand how BMW can get away selling a car with squealing brakes. It's not like you go on their website and this is disclosed with a disclaimer. BMW of North America does not make you sign a waiver of this issue.

I am not looking for snarky responses such as "you should have known what you are getting yourself into" etc. I'm more interested in understanding if there is any path - through the company, through legal means or another way - where I could pursue this and resolve the matter. I do not want to sell this car over a brake squeal either.

Thanks in advance.

Plenty of threads about changing brake pads to solve this. Not sure why not just start there. This has been a thing in M cars for years. Some dealers will help you. Others will tell you congrats on your performance brakes.

[Rafichicago]

Not sure if there's any solution for my case. I have CCBs. They squeal at slow speeds as well. More so when I wash the car and if there is cooler with high humidity. Does anyone have knowledge if brake pads had been revised for CCBs or steel brakes only ?

[AHall]

This is good to know. I wonder if the part number has changed for the brake pads released in October 2021. Seems like this would be the best solution if the pads were changed to correct this issue.

[bfr]

I still don't really understand if there is a solution to this problem. I contact my BMW dealer to see if there is a fix for this issue, and they said no. And, it seems like the after market pads have the same issue over time.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by bfr

I still don't really understand if there is a solution to this problem. I contact my BMW dealer to see if there is a fix for this issue, and they said no. And, it seems like the after market pads have the same issue over time.

"I still don't really understand if there is a solution to this problem."

There is no solution in the sense of "fixing" your OEM brakes.

[Revan]

I have a '23 M5C, granted I only have 950 miles on it but zero brake squeal. Dust however is horrendous so I am seriously considering those iso-2000 pads.

[MSchfiftyFive]

This has been brought up in other threads and there was a manufacturing part revision on the pad between the '21 and '23's (IDK if they did it for '22 or what)

My '21 M5C w/ the steel brakes squealed like a banshee at low speeds (rolling to a stop light or stop sign) the entire time I had it, from the time it left the lot. My '23 M5C has been whisper quiet to the point it made me forget this was such an annoying issue on my '21. I've got 1400 miles on my '23 now and it's been silent the whole time. Someone posted a part rev in another thread a while back, either a batch of '21's got bad stuff to begin with, or the latest rev is just a common part supplier fix for the issue w/o any acknowledgement from BMW, cause it's completely silent now.