[Aronis]

Drivetrain Malfunction.

Begin Rant.

This is not something new. It’s not limited to the M5. It’s not even limited to BMW, but an industry issue due to the complexity of modern cars.

If something actually breaks then so be it, guano happens.

However, the intermitted ‘CEL’ or now “Drivetrain Malfunction’ warning is pure unadulterated BS.

Yes, I do find fault with the entire industry, not just BMW. I have been reading about the dreaded “Drivetrain Malfunction” warning on multiple websites over several model years and on various models. It appears more often than not that the person who sees the warning brings the car in to have the tech scan the car and be told “no fault found.” In fact more often than not the fault clears by just restarting your car.

The first time I experienced this was in 2000 with an A6 4.2, and I drove the car 5 hours round trip to the dealer to find that the CEL was because of a loose friggen gas cap. Such BS. I bought VAGCOM that week.

We are lead to believe, being reasonable people, that such an error message would always created a stored fault message only to be read by some fancy expensive computer analyzer. But this is completely false as often the codes are not stored anywhere, unless there is a true mechanical failure or electronic part failure. And when it recurs enough you are left with the option of the dealer trying this or that blindly.

This is complete BS. These cars have computers everywhere and it is only because of hubris of the programmers that the car does not display the fault codes to the screen for the driver to see. Or at least show an icon you can click to see them should you not be some millennial millionaire who cannot change a flat or even put gas in his own car and has an even better car at home to drive while the butler takes the faulty car in for service. I don’t have these luxuries. I bought this friggen car to drive it as my daily drive, not as a garage queen. And they can store whether or not you modified your engine code, but not leave a spot to store even the minor error codes like this one.

This 2018 M5 is becoming the least reliable car I have ever owned. Not necessarily because it left me by the side of the road with a component failure YET, but because a nondescript “Drivetrain Malfunction” occurs as I pull onto the highway or try to pass someone. The car goes into limp mode and idles like 40 year old Chevy. This has happened 4 times in the last 9 months. (twice this past week). I really don’t want to take it to the local dealership for a ‘scan’ and have not spent the cash on my own scanner yet. I have VAGCOM for my Audi’s and that software is excellent. I am going to buy something similar for the BMW this week.

End Rant.

The point of this post is to simply ask for opinions on whether or not the car, any modern car,should show the driver all the fault codes when they happen, or should it be left for the technical wizards and mechanical shaman at the dealer to diagnose despite the fact that often there are no stored codes?

This is just dumb.

Mike

[TheRealBob]

Is it any surprise this car might have subsequent issues?

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...1&d=1571428929

[Aronis]

No, not really, this has nothing to do with the fact that the car's onboard systems do not report an error message correctly. Unless they removed that module on the rebuild. The main issue I was commenting on is the lack of useful information given to you, the driver, with regard to a drivetrain malfunction when it occurs and there is no stored code to help diagnose the issue. Or is my car the only BMW to have the "drivetrain malfunction" warning come on and then reset itself without leaving a stored code? No, not by a long shot.

Mike

[VeNoM__M5]

Originally Posted by TheRealBob

Is it any surprise this car might have subsequent issues?

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...8;d=1571428929

😂

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Aronis

No, not really, this has nothing to do with the fact that the car's onboard systems do not report an error message correctly. Unless they removed that module on the rebuild. The main issue I was commenting on is the lack of useful information given to you, the driver, with regard to a drivetrain malfunction when it occurs and there is no stored code to help diagnose the issue. Or is my car the only BMW to have the "drivetrain malfunction" warning come on and then reset itself without leaving a stored code? No, not by a long shot.

Mike

Agreed big time on the issue. Sorry, dude--it's a PITA to say the least.

However, on every occasion I've experienced this, there is a code to back the root-cause... oftentimes, multiple. How are you discerning there's nothing to back or explain or further root-cause the rolled-up CEL?

[TheRealBob]

Originally Posted by Aronis

Drivetrain Malfunction.

This 2018 M5 is becoming the least reliable car I have ever owned. Not necessarily because it left me by the side of the road with a component failure YET, but because a nondescript “Drivetrain Malfunction” occurs as I pull onto the highway or try to pass someone. The car goes into limp mode and idles like 40 year old Chevy. This has happened 4 times in the last 9 months. (twice this past week).
Mike

I completely understand and sympathize with how frustrating this must be for you.

I was only trying to attach some history for those on the forum unfamiliar with your accident.

If you can repair a heart, you can't let a "Drivetrain Malfunction" throw you.

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by TheRealBob

I completely understand and sympathize with how frustrating this must be for you.

I was only trying to attach some history for those on the forum unfamiliar with your accident.

If you can repair a heart, you can't let a "Drivetrain Malfunction" throw you.

It does not throw me......I guess the point is lost on you...

Mike

[TheRealBob]

Originally Posted by Aronis

It does not throw me......I guess the point is lost on you...

Mike

You seem so invested in being angry, you didn't recognize that I was paying you a complement, or at least that was my apparently awkward intention.

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by TheRealBob

You seem so invested in being angry, you didn't recognize that I was paying you a complement, or at least that was my apparently awkward intention.

LOL,

no hard feelings.

Just frustrating.....

I bought this.. So I hope to capture the code. I did finally click the Service Request button and the data should have been sent to BMW. It would be nice if that report was posted on our MyBMW webpage. Secret Error Codes.....

[TheRealBob]

Originally Posted by Aronis

LOL,

no hard feelings.

Just frustrating.....

I bought this.. So I hope to capture the code. I did finally click the Service Request button and the data should have been sent to BMW. It would be nice if that report was posted on our MyBMW webpage. Secret Error Codes.....

All is good.

I know you just want to get back to enjoying this great car!

Keep us updated.

[Realnyc8]

i had this issue. its common in the G30 5 series. i forget what the part they needed to replace was but it wasnt a big deal. look in the G30 forums and you'll find the answer or search my old posts i think i told someone else what to replace

[Aronis]

I did scan and it came up with misfire on cylinder 5 (most of the faults that were stored). I have to scan again as the tool I used did not save the scan for other details. One fault was showing for oxygen sensor 2. I'll post the scan this weekend. Have not had time.

[Aronis]

So these are the fault codes. Still don't understand why the car can't just show these, but what ever. Spend $200 and bought a scanner to do this. Money better spent than buying CarPlay, LOL.

It does not show the number of times each fault has occurred, nor the date. I'm an engineer at heart (BS biomedical engineering) and if I were writing this friggen code the car would flag the date of the occurrence and some other data. Perhaps it is hidden in there somewhere.

The occurrences were in various conditions. The first time was in Manual mode, going up hill in my development at about 28 mph. The second time was on same road at about 32 mph, in auto with everything set at economy (old man mode), I just stepped on it a little to pass a car that was pulling into his/her driveway. The third time was in full sport plus, auto transmission, on a full wide open throttle at about 70, merging onto exit/cross entrance ramp thing....The forth time just passing on highway again in sport plus, auto transmission, 3/4 throttle or so.

I am going to plug in my go pro and run the BMW lap timer app and that will capture more information for me at the next occurrence. The car resets immediately if I shut it down and restart. I have only done this at my terminal points where I can safely park rather than side of road for fear of getting stuck in a shitty location.

?bad spark plugs (18k miles), ?bad coil pack? (the 'several cylinders' occurrence kind of argues against that?)

The car has been driven sanely, I don't race everyone, and had only done the launch control thing once. Always top tier gasoline. No modifications other than installing V1 and Dash cam and the ejector seat.

(For the haters, to remind them, my accident happened in heavy downpour, swerved as I came around a low visibility corner to avoid an oncoming driver who was on the wrong side of road, I just caught the edge of the hot top, passenger side dropped into grassy area that was full of rain (3 to 4 inches), and the car slide sideways into a row of bushes. The car was hit Just Right at the side of the frame and the part that was broken was a 1 cm metal strip onto which the side of the car gets welded. They insisted on replacing the inner car's frame so that it would be back to factory spec since it was new. This was a zero traction situation. I was going 23 mph. (had the car been three years old, they would have simply banged out the dents and repainted.)



Fault Codes
120408 Charging pressure control: Switch-off, pressure build-up blocked Intermittent
12B011 Oxygen sensor 2 after of catalytic converter, from rich to lean: Delayed response Intermittent
140510 Combustion misfire, cylinder 5: detected Intermittent
140001 Combustion misfires, several cylinders: Fuel injection is switched off Intermittent
120908 Charging pressure control 2: Switch-off as consequence Intermittent

I am trying to avoid a trip to Albany. I am contemplating taking it into the local BMW shop for an official scan and diagnostic peak. I am on the fence about leaving my car with them. I'd like to be able to safely drive the car through the winter until my next necessary service in Albany. I did my own oil change recently, so the car is not due for service until the spring at which time I will need new summer tires anyway.

My next step will be looking at the engine to see if moving a coil pack form cylinder 5 to other as a test, but from what I have seen you have to take a lot of stuff off to get at the coil packs. (much like my RS6, so I am not afraid to tackle it) I try to avoid having a dealership experiment with my car if this is not a quick "Common" issue that they are confident they know the answer to. And to avoid 'clear the codes' and send me away, only to have it happen again as I drive away. I am not the first person to report this kind of issue.

Any helpful input?

Mike

[limur]

Originally Posted by Aronis

So these are the fault codes. Still don't understand why the car can't just show these, but what ever. Spend $200 and bought a scanner to do this. Money better spent than buying CarPlay, LOL.

It does not show the number of times each fault has occurred, nor the date. I'm an engineer at heart (BS biomedical engineering) and if I were writing this friggen code the car would flag the date of the occurrence and some other data. Perhaps it is hidden in there somewhere.

The occurrences were in various conditions. The first time was in Manual mode, going up hill in my development at about 28 mph. The second time was on same road at about 32 mph, in auto with everything set at economy (old man mode), I just stepped on it a little to pass a car that was pulling into his/her driveway. The third time was in full sport plus, auto transmission, on a full wide open throttle at about 70, merging onto exit/cross entrance ramp thing....The forth time just passing on highway again in sport plus, auto transmission, 3/4 throttle or so.

I am going to plug in my go pro and run the BMW lap timer app and that will capture more information for me at the next occurrence. The car resets immediately if I shut it down and restart. I have only done this at my terminal points where I can safely park rather than side of road for fear of getting stuck in a shitty location.

?bad spark plugs (18k miles), ?bad coil pack? (the 'several cylinders' occurrence kind of argues against that?)

The car has been driven sanely, I don't race everyone, and had only done the launch control thing once. Always top tier gasoline. No modifications other than installing V1 and Dash cam and the ejector seat.

(For the haters, to remind them, my accident happened in heavy downpour, swerved as I came around a low visibility corner to avoid an oncoming driver who was on the wrong side of road, I just caught the edge of the hot top, passenger side dropped into grassy area that was full of rain (3 to 4 inches), and the car slide sideways into a row of bushes. The car was hit Just Right at the side of the frame and the part that was broken was a 1 cm metal strip onto which the side of the car gets welded. They insisted on replacing the inner car's frame so that it would be back to factory spec since it was new. This was a zero traction situation. I was going 23 mph. (had the car been three years old, they would have simply banged out the dents and repainted.)



Fault Codes
120408 Charging pressure control: Switch-off, pressure build-up blocked Intermittent
12B011 Oxygen sensor 2 after of catalytic converter, from rich to lean: Delayed response Intermittent
140510 Combustion misfire, cylinder 5: detected Intermittent
140001 Combustion misfires, several cylinders: Fuel injection is switched off Intermittent
120908 Charging pressure control 2: Switch-off as consequence Intermittent

I am trying to avoid a trip to Albany. I am contemplating taking it into the local BMW shop for an official scan and diagnostic peak. I am on the fence about leaving my car with them. I'd like to be able to safely drive the car through the winter until my next necessary service in Albany. I did my own oil change recently, so the car is not due for service until the spring at which time I will need new summer tires anyway.

My next step will be looking at the engine to see if moving a coil pack form cylinder 5 to other as a test, but from what I have seen you have to take a lot of stuff off to get at the coil packs. (much like my RS6, so I am not afraid to tackle it) I try to avoid having a dealership experiment with my car if this is not a quick "Common" issue that they are confident they know the answer to. And to avoid 'clear the codes' and send me away, only to have it happen again as I drive away. I am not the first person to report this kind of issue.

Any helpful input?

Mike

Hello. how did you solve the problem?

[Aronis]

LOL that was more than 2 years ago.....it was a bad coil pack on cylinder 5...coil was replaced....and it has been fine....

The rant was about the lack of useful information that the car displays to the driver. Not the fault, stuff happens. This is a common theme...such as the lack of a volt meter, oil temp, oil pressure, etc etc, which would be an EASY thing to add to the STUPID "Sports Display."

Sometimes the fault is something really quick and can avoid a trip to the dealer.

By the way swapping out a coil pack is a huge pain in the (&)P* in the M5....lot's of stuff to take off first. I would have DIY and swapped two coils to see if the fault moved and thus DIY replace the coil pack. My next spark plug swap will be a DIY as more data is out there on the process of moving stuff out of the way. It took the tech 8 hours or so to do the spark plug replacement at 25k miles due to lack of experience with this. The coil pack swap took two days in the shop, not sure of the total hours. I hate having my car be the first one a tech works on...LOL....rather have them learn on YOUR CAR first.

The fix was not a big issue, the annoyance of the inability to have the car give the error codes without using a scanner. How hard would that be?

I now own the full blown Foxwell Nt680 scanner....Still think the car should give up the codes without the need of an additional device.

Mike

Thanks for asking......or perhaps....not.....LOL.....cars been great otherwise.

[G30 B58]

You're not wrong about the fault codes. So much tech, so much information but the car can't (or hasn't been programmed) to share it with you w/o buying a scan tool or better.

[fozzydj]

Same error has just thrown on mine.

33k on the clock, 2018 M5 (not comp).

Error code was permanent, wasn't clearing, limp mode on.

Booked it in (specialist, not dealership).

Cracked coolant tank leaking onto injectors. £2,000 to fix, 4 x injectors, new tank and 6 hours labour.

Buzzin... not!

[micvite]

Originally Posted by fozzydj

Same error has just thrown on mine.

33k on the clock, 2018 M5 (not comp).

Error code was permanent, wasn't clearing, limp mode on.

Booked it in (specialist, not dealership).

Cracked coolant tank leaking onto injectors. £2,000 to fix, 4 x injectors, new tank and 6 hours labour.

Buzzin... not!

That is ridiculously expensive for no reason lol sounds like you got jacked by your mechanic

[Ron1n]

Originally Posted by Aronis

I did scan and it came up with misfire on cylinder 5 (most of the faults that were stored). I have to scan again as the tool I used did not save the scan for other details. One fault was showing for oxygen sensor 2. I'll post the scan this weekend. Have not had time.

02 Sensor won't cause a drivetrain malfunction, but a misfire will.

[mfolife]

Hey A-I had similar codes with similar limp mode episode on my 18 M5. Long story short -when my dealer replaced my spark plugs per the CBS on a previous visit, apparently the tech never torqued the plugs. I drove a couple thousand miles before all hell broke loose. Good luck