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      09-18-2021, 08:49 PM   #1
irablumberg
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M5 vs. Caddy CT5-V Blackwing

At least in the Caddy camp, I suspect this will be a hot topic.

The big car mags are already gushing over the Caddy. C&D just claimed it had the same driving dynamics / feeling as a 911. Without personal experience in the Caddy, I do find this a bit hard to swallow.

C&D also just tested the 6M version and it was surprisingly slow with a 1/4 mile in 11.6 @ 125. This is all relative, but I would expect a substantially higher trap speed from a car with 650+ HP that weighs only 4,000 lbs. Of course the auto will be faster, but probably not enough to challenge the M5 at the strip (not to mention RWD will be a big hurdle for the Caddy).

The Caddy may well handle better than the M5 since it is 250 to 300 lbs lighter.

Also, even C&D, while gushing about the Caddy admitted that the interior is not really at the BMW / MB level, even when the Caddy is optioned up to $115K.

For me, while I would like more steering feel in my M5C, AWD and the high quality interior, plus greater speed are enough to tip the balance in favor of the M5 for me.

Also, while I can't say this for certain, when I did a trial build of the Caddy, it appears that Super Cruise (or whatever Caddy calls its self steering driver assist) is not available on the CT5-V Blackwing. For me, and I suspect many other owners, cars in this class are used for road trips and at this point, I'm not interested in any car that does not offer self steering for freeway driving.

In any case, I suspect the upcoming discussions will be interesting.
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      09-18-2021, 08:57 PM   #2
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it's slow in the 1/4 because it's probably blowing the tires off.

The car will be a beast no question, and a last of it's kind. This motor is a V8 S/C correct? Owning a C7Z with a similar motor, it has gobs of torque, and the power is linear throughout. Absolutely hoot to drive. I suspect the same in the BW, except it has 4 doors.


I give props to GM for sticking with the 6.2 for one last time.

you'll get a bunch of stereotypical BMW fanboy responses in here bashing a GM product because it's so "inferior" Very few on this forum can appreciate a broad spectrum of vehicles, that are all fun in their own way. It's a great time to be a car guy.
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      09-19-2021, 02:29 AM   #3
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Throttle House reviewed the car recently if you hadn't seen and are interested.

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      09-19-2021, 10:48 AM   #4
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Couldn't agree with TrevorM3 more. The CT5VBW is a special car, likely the last of its kind and will be my M5 replacement once inventory increases. But hell, I just traded in my M5 for a Durango HC which was quite the switch but love it. I'll likely return to the M5 when the next gen arrives likely with a hybrid powertrain and significant power increase (not that it needs it but that's evolution) if they follow suit of MB assuming a variation of their new V8 hybrid powertrain in the GT63S makes it into the E63S replacement. That being said, MB has other problems on their hands getting the V8 back to the US if its hiatus is due to pending increases in penalties for NHTSA avg. fuel economy violations unless interest grows in their electric vehicles which IMO don't elicit any excitement whatsoever - good news for Tesla selling those credits - FCA kept them profitable for a few of those quarters that got them into the S&P. Three years in the M5 was special but time to return to the dynamic driving experience of a V8 RWD manual while the opportunity still exists.
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      09-19-2021, 01:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
it's slow in the 1/4 because it's probably blowing the tires off.

The car will be a beast no question, and a last of it's kind. This motor is a V8 S/C correct? Owning a C7Z with a similar motor, it has gobs of torque, and the power is linear throughout. Absolutely hoot to drive. I suspect the same in the BW, except it has 4 doors.


I give props to GM for sticking with the 6.2 for one last time.

you'll get a bunch of stereotypical BMW fanboy responses in here bashing a GM product because it's so "inferior" Very few on this forum can appreciate a broad spectrum of vehicles, that are all fun in their own way. It's a great time to be a car guy.
No doubt the e.t. is higher due to traction limitations. However, particularly with the no-lift-shift, the trap speed should be higher, even with limited traction.

In any case, I agree this is a fine last hurrah for ICE muscle sedans.
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      09-19-2021, 10:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbonebre View Post
Couldn't agree with TrevorM3 more. The CT5VBW is a special car, likely the last of its kind and will be my M5 replacement once inventory increases. But hell, I just traded in my M5 for a Durango HC which was quite the switch but love it. I'll likely return to the M5 when the next gen arrives likely with a hybrid powertrain and significant power increase (not that it needs it but that's evolution) if they follow suit of MB assuming a variation of their new V8 hybrid powertrain in the GT63S makes it into the E63S replacement. That being said, MB has other problems on their hands getting the V8 back to the US if its hiatus is due to pending increases in penalties for NHTSA avg. fuel economy violations unless interest grows in their electric vehicles which IMO don't elicit any excitement whatsoever - good news for Tesla selling those credits - FCA kept them profitable for a few of those quarters that got them into the S&P. Three years in the M5 was special but time to return to the dynamic driving experience of a V8 RWD manual while the opportunity still exists.


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      09-24-2021, 10:27 AM   #7
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I'm not necessarily a GM guy but I can speak to the Cadillac ownership experience as I sold my CTS-V3 back in June while the market was (is) hot. I purchased it new in 2018 and my experience was ok. Every time I brought it in for service it was there for a week at a time and it wasn't always fixed the first time. I had to open a case with GM to finally have a computer issue fixed after taking it in 3x. Anyway, it was fast and the steering was razor sharp. The GM 8spd trans was a weak point and I didn't want to deal with that aspect out of warranty.

As for the Blackwing, my intention was to sell my V and order a Blackwing, which is what I did, 6 months ago. I still have no allocation nor any idea if I'm even going to get a car this year. I'm sure this is due to parts shortages but at the end of the day I'm buying the car from GM so they shoulder most of the responsibility (and blame) for this rollout, which has been less than stellar to put it kindly.

I know that the Blackwing is going to be a ball to drive. A manual Blackwing will likely be collectible and depreciation should be better than most cars. Before the V I had 2 Chevy SS (Holden Commodore), one manual and one auto. One of the only things I missed about the SS when I had my V was the manual (my manual SS was totaled which is why I bought the V). I suspect the BW will feel like a combination of the two, only better.

Having said that, my automotive philosophy is that life is too short to drive the same brand your whole life and my life is getting shorter by the day it feels like. My last 5 cars were sports sedans, some of which were direct competitors to the M5. Some were even referred to as the "American M5." Since I've had the so called American M5 I feel like it's time to try the real thing, which has brought me here. Many people that I know in the V world are disappointed that the BW doesn't have AWD. They say it's ugly which is subjective. I like the "4 door coupe" look so I don't mind the look. Frankly, as a former owner I can say the Blackwing interior looks like dogshit compared to the M5. The dash looks like 6 different shades of black. I'm not blown away by the interior or the exterior color options. I think the Caddy is overpriced by about 15k given the quality of the final product. My V had numerous small issues that a 100k+ car shouldn't have.

So what's my verdict? If my Blackwing order gets accepted before my M5 arrives, I'm going to be faced with a very tough choice. I'm just happy to have these choices. Growing up in the 80s I thought this amount of performance would never be available to us. This is truly the golden age.
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      09-24-2021, 03:52 PM   #8
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I'm sure it's a quick car, but in this segment it's probably not the car I would pick next to the other German competitors.

I don't have a problem with GM or American cars in general - I would gladly drive a new GT500, Corvette or a Camaro ZL1 if I was in the market for a 2 door sports car.
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      09-30-2021, 01:54 PM   #9
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One big problem with the CT5VBW is that dealers are going crazy with the pricing. Around here in the SE we are seeing 40 - 70k ADM. I guess they got a taste of ADM from the C8 and are looking for crazy ADMs to help cover loses due to inventory shortages.
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      09-30-2021, 05:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post
One big problem with the CT5VBW is that dealers are going crazy with the pricing. Around here in the SE we are seeing 40 - 70k ADM. I guess they got a taste of ADM from the C8 and are looking for crazy ADMs to help cover loses due to inventory shortages.
That will last until all the (very small number) of enthusiasts have purchased. After that, I expect we will see some serious discounts for left over inventory.

Nice as they are, these are very much niche vehicles.
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      10-02-2021, 01:15 PM   #11
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I signed up for the Blackwing waitlist on the same day of the reveal. According to my dealer, waitlist customers will not have to pay any ADM. If I back out for any reason, they will add a markup for the next buyer. It’s pretty much the same rules for the folks that reserved the first 500 though some are being charged anywhere from 2-10k on top of MSRP.

My dealer said they will be adding a special “protection package” with tint, nitrogen and pinstripes (yak) for $1200. That will be negotiated as well, I’ll give them $600 to not add any of that crap.

It’s a tough pill to swallow since I got a $15k discount off of my ‘18 V when I bought it new. This is all moot if BMW builds my M5C soon.
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      10-04-2021, 09:43 PM   #12
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This is indeed a special time where we hav pelothora of sub 3 0 to 60 cars to choose from. Enjoy them all, if you can, before regulations take them away
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      10-05-2021, 03:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
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This is indeed a special time where we hav pelothora of sub 3 0 to 60 cars to choose from. Enjoy them all, if you can, before regulations take them away
Cars will only get faster. They will at some point reduce / cease production of ICE propelled cars but this is just the beginning of widely available sub 3 second 0 - 60 vehicles.
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      10-05-2021, 03:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall View Post
Cars will only get faster. They will at some point reduce / cease production of ICE propelled cars but this is just the beginning of widely available sub 3 second 0 - 60 vehicles.
I don't know - feel regulations will get the best of us - and we may have powerful tech - but will be driving it at nanny speeds (if they will still let us drive them - otherwise i fear the machines will do the driving for us and we will be regulated to passengers at the mercy of AI autopilot.)
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      10-05-2021, 04:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackedm5f90 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall View Post
Cars will only get faster. They will at some point reduce / cease production of ICE propelled cars but this is just the beginning of widely available sub 3 second 0 - 60 vehicles.
I don't know - feel regulations will get the best of us - and we may have powerful tech - but will be driving it at nanny speeds (if they will still let us drive them - otherwise i fear the machines will do the driving for us and we will be regulated to passengers at the mercy of AI autopilot.)
Yep,

I have a feeling you are right.

Will be a sad day for sure.
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      10-05-2021, 06:04 PM   #16
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easy solution, buy and keep a v8.
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      10-05-2021, 06:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
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easy solution, buy and keep a v8.
that's why I bought this 22 m5 i fear the next generation will be hybrid.
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      10-05-2021, 06:33 PM   #18
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that's why I bought this 22 m5 i fear the next generation will be hybrid.


long live the v8
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      10-05-2021, 09:01 PM   #19
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easy solution, buy and keep a v8.
That's why I bought my M5 and bought extended warranty. Gonna be a keeper.
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      11-04-2021, 10:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post
One big problem with the CT5VBW is that dealers are going crazy with the pricing. Around here in the SE we are seeing 40 - 70k ADM. I guess they got a taste of ADM from the C8 and are looking for crazy ADMs to help cover loses due to inventory shortages.
That will last until all the (very small number) of enthusiasts have purchased. After that, I expect we will see some serious discounts for left over inventory.

Nice as they are, these are very much niche vehicles.
Agreed. This was the same thing with fifth gen Camaro z28.
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