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      08-21-2017, 02:06 PM   #45
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eagerly awaiting a review from an f10 m5 owner...
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      08-21-2017, 02:07 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m34m View Post
Lost me at ZF slushbox. What a shame. Detracts from what is otherwise brilliant.
I drive an F85 with a similar tranny- it's quite good. Corvette uses similar tech.

DCT is not without faults and no longer appreciably outperforms (if at all, at these power levels) the ZF.

Might not hurt to be a bit more open minded.

(Former die-hard 6MT driver/1M/E92 M3 owner here)
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      08-21-2017, 02:07 PM   #47
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Take a look at this shitty 1-2 shift here, YUCK

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      08-21-2017, 02:09 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicslick146 View Post
That's fair, but to my original point, is the premium still justified then? Is the M division now indistinguishable from Dinon, churning out chip-tuned versions of M550is? Heck the badge isn't exclusive anymore, they've literally slapped the m-badge on everything now, I thought I even saw an m-badge mountain bike somewhere...
Basically, this is a M550i with even more suspension and body work. What's a hard pill to swallow is the pricing will be on this. We're talking about a car that's probably going to be priced close to the mid 100k range. The possibilities that are open to consumers are not limited.
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      08-21-2017, 02:09 PM   #49
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Very nice. MSRP??
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      08-21-2017, 02:12 PM   #50
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      08-21-2017, 02:17 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicslick146 View Post
Is it me or does each generation of M5 seem like we're getting less and less value, to the point where the F90 feels like a ripoff..? The M5 used to be... I dunno, special? We used to get bespoke engines and transmissions and suspensions... The E39 engine had 8 individual throttle bodies... The E60 was a freegin V-10 that revved to 8500 rpm! With the F-10, was disappointed the engine was largely sourced from the stock engine, but at least it had a high performance DCT tranny.... With the new M5, what the heck is the M-premium going towards exactly...? The profit margins for the F-90 must be through the roof.... Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the new car will be quick for sure, and I'm fully aware of that the sole purpose of any business is to make money, period. But as a long time m enthusiast and current F-10 driver, it's just a little sad I guess.....
But does the car really need a DCT? Honestly, the DCT was just something for people to gloat about at their local cars and coffee. It's not like the car will actually go visit a track anyway. At least not for 99% of M5 owners who drive them.

One could make the same argument for individual throttle bodies and 8250 RPM redline.
Unless you're racing on a road course, ITBs and high-revs are just bragging rights, right?

I agree with the original comment to an extent.
There was something particularly special about the M-cars of yore.
In particular, the M5s of the past had concrete links to BMW's racing ventures at the time. The E28 & E34 M5s used handbuilt powerplants descended from the BMW M1 supercar. The E39 M5's engine found widespread use in motorsport racing, and the E60 M5's V10 masterpiece was a result of the trickle-down effect of BMW's participation in Formula 1.
If I wanted to give the S63 powered F10 and F90 a break, at least the M6 racecar technically uses an engine derived from the S63, so at least there's still a link.
The point is, the M5 (and M-cars in general) was always about pushing the limits of motorsport/racing technology into a sedan/saloon car. The side-effect was that you got a really fast saloon, but the DNA from motorsport came first.

Does any of that matter during the commute to work? Probably not, and that's probably why gradually M-cars are becoming more generic, because BMW knows it can get away with it.
Why spend more money and R&D if the consumer won't notice a difference and only cares about numbers?
It's the sad reality, but there's something honest and special when a BMW M product lives up to its name and heritage, even if few can appreciate it.
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      08-21-2017, 02:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicslick146 View Post
That's fair, but to my original point, is the premium still justified then? Is the M division now indistinguishable from Dinon, churning out chip-tuned versions of M550is? Heck the badge isn't exclusive anymore, they've literally slapped the m-badge on everything now, I thought I even saw an m-badge mountain bike somewhere...
Basically, this is a M550i with even more suspension and body work. What's a hard pill to swallow is the pricing will be on this. We're talking about a car that's probably going to be priced close to the mid 100k range. The possibilities that are open to consumers are not limited.
Can you imagine the depreciation? This type of performance is going to be a steal 3 years used.
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      08-21-2017, 02:23 PM   #53
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Wowzers. I'm sure the competition pack will be even more bonkers
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      08-21-2017, 02:24 PM   #54
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I just noticed the listed curb weight. 4,254.9lbs!! That's great! Ok, they did a good job. I also noticed that at least the hood is made out of aluminum as well. But no aluminum doors, no carbon fiber trunk either. At least the roof is CF as well. But I really can't complain too much. A 4,254lbs weight beats every other competitor except the 2016 Cadillac CTS-V, but the F90 M5 has AWD too which adds weight, so this is quite exceptional, I have to say. The 2018 Mercedes E63S comes in right at 4,400lbs and the new Panamera Turbo is like 4,412lbs. The 2016 Cadillac CTS-V is right at about 4,134lbs I think. Had the F90 M5 been RWD only, I am sure it would have undercut the CT-V's curb weight too.

So really, probably the best things about the F90 M5 are its AWD system and the great reduction in curb weight. This makes it a significant car to beat. This also puts the F90 M5 about 650lbs lighter than a Tesla Model S P100D, which means that once the F90 M5 is aftermarket tuned to levels of power equivalent to the P100D, it will be faster.

Everything else aside here from looks, to the side view mirrors, and them re-using the S63 engine, this reduction in weight is what I believe the greatest accomplishment!! Bravo M Division, Bravo!
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      08-21-2017, 02:33 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommytexter View Post
14.96 x 1.10 [in] perforated, inner-vented single-piston floating calipers
Optional M carbon ceramic brakes ......... and rear single-piston floating calipers (14.96 x 1.10 in.)


Fxxk me.....even ceramic has ugly single piston too......
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevn23 View Post
The rear brake calipers really bothered me and BMW carried it over to the F90. I understand it has e-brake built in, but common... someone must wonder if the M5 owner just did a BBK for the front and painted the rear calipers.
It's a small detail but it is really silly with that rear caliper, sadly it's the easiest way to do an electronic parking brake.
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      08-21-2017, 02:33 PM   #56
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Looks better than the F10, but still a lil bit boring. Fast, but sounds like shit. Just like the current M'es :/
Overall, predictable.
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      08-21-2017, 02:34 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdshah View Post
Can you imagine the depreciation? This type of performance is going to be a steal 3 years used.
Indeed, you can find fully equipped M6 Gran Coupes with original MSRP's of $140k going for $65k on cars.com right now. It's a shame.
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      08-21-2017, 02:37 PM   #58
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Please change those side mirrors... they look really ugly
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      08-21-2017, 02:38 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
I just noticed the listed curb weight. 4,254.9lbs!! That's great! Ok, they did a good job. I also noticed that at least the hood is made out of aluminum as well. But no aluminum doors, no carbon fiber trunk either. At least the roof is CF as well. But I really can't complain too much. A 4,254lbs weight beats every other competitor except the 2016 Cadillac CTS-V, but the F90 M5 has AWD too which adds weight, so this is quite exceptional, I have to say. The 2018 Mercedes E63S comes in right at 4,4,00lbs and the new Panamera Turbo is like 4,412lbs. The 2016 Cadillac CTS-V is right at about 4,134lbs I think. Had the F90 M5 been RWD only, I am sure it would have undercut the CT-V's curb weight too.

So really, probably the best things about the F90 M5 are its AWD system and the great reduction in curb weight. This makes it a significant car to beat. This also puts the F90 M5 about 650lbs lighter than a Tesla Model S P100D, which means that once the F90 M5 is aftermarket tuned to levels of power equivalent to the P100D, it will be faster.

Everything else aside here from looks, to the side view mirrors, and them re-using the S63 engine, this reduction in weight is what I believe the greatest accomplishment!! Bravo M Division, Bravo!
Don't know about that, P100D has instant torque that's hard to beat. Right now only the 918 is quicker 0-100km/h and it is lighter than the new M5, and has much more power.
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      08-21-2017, 02:39 PM   #60
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See ya later M3
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      08-21-2017, 02:43 PM   #61
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unbiased opinion since I don't have neither. but I think the previous M5 looks better.
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      08-21-2017, 02:46 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
One could make the same argument for individual throttle bodies and 8250 RPM redline.
Unless you're racing on a road course, ITBs and high-revs are just bragging rights, right?

I agree with the original comment to an extent.
There was something particularly special about the M-cars of yore.
In particular, the M5s of the past had concrete links to BMW's racing ventures at the time. The E28 & E34 M5s used handbuilt powerplants descended from the BMW M1 supercar. The E39 M5's engine found widespread use in motorsport racing, and the E60 M5's V10 masterpiece was a result of the trickle-down effect of BMW's participation in Formula 1.
If I wanted to give the S63 powered F10 and F90 a break, at least the M6 racecar technically uses an engine derived from the S63, so at least there's still a link.
The point is, the M5 (and M-cars in general) was always about pushing the limits of motorsport/racing technology into a sedan/saloon car. The side-effect was that you got a really fast saloon, but the DNA from motorsport came first.

Does any of that matter during the commute to work? Probably not, and that's probably why gradually M-cars are becoming more generic, because BMW knows it can get away with it.
Why spend more money and R&D if the consumer won't notice a difference and only cares about numbers?
It's the sad reality, but there's something honest and special when a BMW M product lives up to its name and heritage, even if few can appreciate it.
Absolutely.....I always loved that the M-cars were a bit Ferrari-like in that respect, the E-60s V-10 being a pinnacle of that example, and part of the reason I always thought M-5 was actually an amazing bargain....People would debate the price hike of the car but I would always be like"uh, hello.... this thing has an F-1 engine in it!" curious how old everyone is in this thread, I used to pin up Car and Driver articles of the E-39 when I was in high school but now I'm in my mid 30s now and I feel like one of those old dudes that I used to laugh at when I was younger, running around screaming "is nothing sacred anymore!?!" or "they really don't make em like they used to...". I guess the good old days were exactly that though, good and gone...

Last edited by vicslick146; 08-21-2017 at 02:54 PM..
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      08-21-2017, 02:47 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundown View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m34m View Post
Lost me at ZF slushbox. What a shame. Detracts from what is otherwise brilliant.
I drive an F85 with a similar tranny- it's quite good. Corvette uses similar tech.

DCT is not without faults and no longer appreciably outperforms (if at all, at these power levels) the ZF.

Might not hurt to be a bit more open minded.

(Former die-hard 6MT driver/1M/E92 M3 owner here)
Very open minded bud. I have an X3 with a slushbox and E92M3 with DCT and M2 with manual. That's pretty open minded. I know what I like. I also attended the M Power Tour in Canada last week where I drove M2/3/4/6 all DCT and X5M and X6M with slushboxes ofcourse. Yes for their size the SUVs performance was excellent around the track but there was a noticeable difference in transmission response and clearly inferior throttle blips. The M6 DCT was superb so why saddle a beauty like the new M5 with a slushbox. As you can see my opinion is informed not a result of closed mindedness. Thanks though. Oh one other thing, where the fuck is the manual!?
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      08-21-2017, 02:58 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acexxon View Post
Please change those side mirrors... they look really ugly
Hey, at least there's another rear reflector opportunity for you!
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      08-21-2017, 02:58 PM   #65
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Front runner for my next daily. Hope/assuming the next M6 gets the 2WD/4WD chassis as well.

Well done BMW.
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      08-21-2017, 03:07 PM   #66
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Underwhelmed.
After all these rumors - with 600hp and not more.
Just 'fast enough' to take on Mercedes AMG E63S

Still can't touch the top Tesla
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