[KD07]

Originally Posted by TurboM

definitely not meant to be personally insulting but if you honestly have no idea, why post a reply? What exactly do you want to know? Happy to provide input on the S55.

I did have an idea. Hence the words "I believe" and "I'm no expert" so take everything with a grain of salt. And besides my open deck comment on the s55, what warranted that response including "bad information"? Correct me where needed please...

[CruzM3]

OP, MPPSK is a good option as myself and others have it and are enjoying the sound and extra power. As far as longevity of the powertrain goes the MPPSK was developed by BMW so it will not lessen the reliability any. Adding another tune on top of that will bring you to the fueling max of about 400-410hp so longevity may take a small hit but if you keep up with Maintenance as others have stated you should be fine. There are a few of us, myself included that are thinking about getting the Dinan Elite tune. waiting to see there results on a MPPSK car.

[CruzM3]

double post please delete.

[insanecoder]

yea add to the fact MPPSKs a flash and not a piggyback faking signals to the ECU.. safer

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by KD07

They are totally different engines and blocks. B58 has a closed deck design and I believe the s55 has an open deck design. I also believe the s55 is derived from the n55, but obviously with many upgrades such as cooling, 2 turbos, chains, belts, internals, etc.

My belief is that BMW is trying to use up the last of their inventory that was made for the n55/s55 engines and in the future will move forward with the b58 design in a large portion of their performance engines and M lines. But obviously with many other changes and upgrades, just based on the B-line engines. Could be wrong, just my opinion.

I'm no expert by any means, so don't quote me on any of this.

S55 is a closed deck design.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by TurboM

Wow, this just goes to show you how bad information from the internet can be...

Ummmm yeah...and everyone is raving about the s55 reliability and not a single mention of failed crank hub failures where there are over dozens of cases. Not a catastrophic failure in all cases but non the less it's a very costly repair.

Perhaps the focus should be on how durable the over square, closed deck B58 with the timing chain moved to the rear of the motor purposely by BMW To address the engine harmonics and overhaul the Crank Hub issue. (Motor hasn't been out long enough for you guys I know, I know

I'd take the B58 all day long, S55 is a joke aside from the awesome F80/82 chassis. They failed on that design miserably imo. I can't wait to see what the S58 version will bring to the table.

It's no wonder a jb4 on map 2 with a meth kit walks an s55 all day...simply just a better advanced motor.

[carguy19]

Originally Posted by Dejan_

Ummmm yeah...and everyone is raving about the s55 reliability and not a single mention of failed crank hub failures where there are over dozens of cases. Not a catastrophic failure in all cases but non the less it's a very costly repair.

Perhaps the focus should be on how durable the over square, closed deck B58 with the timing chain moved to the rear of the motor purposely by BMW To address the engine harmonics and overhaul the Crank Hub issue. (Motor hasn't been out long enough for you guys I know, I know

I'd take the B58 all day long, S55 is a joke aside from the awesome F80/82 chassis. They failed on that design miserably imo. I can't wait to see what the S58 version will bring to the table.

It's no wonder a jb4 on map 2 with a meth kit walks an s55 all day...simply just a better advanced motor.

I'm pretty sure the B58 uses a timing belt now with the drives in the back of the motor.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by carguy19

I'm pretty sure the B58 uses a timing belt now with the drives in the back of the motor.

It uses a split timing chain not sure where a belt theory came from :
I haven't seen a timing belt on BMW's in a very very long time.
The only cars that use Kevlar belts are 4 cylinders. Even the BMW n20/n26 use chains.

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by newbie340

I would prefer less turbo lag in the low rpms (I know ppl say its smooth but I feel a lot of engine hesitancy in first/second gear). Also, I FULLY LOADED (which includes track package) this bad boy to like a $64,000 MSRP. So I am not looking to do that in M3 form. Plus I want AWD for ski trips etc (hence no M3). Therefore, I am looking for ways to increase performance and get as close as possible.

B58 with meth a JB4 will gap an m3

[PeterA90]

Just to give you guys an idea. My car dynoed on mustang 420/420 awhp/awtq on pump gas and 50/50 mix of meth/water... B58 has great potential. There's awd n54's that are FBO running E, that don't even put that out. The problem with this motor is the fuel cap. Even with WMI I'm still able to hit it. WMI simply raises the threshold and bandaids the problem. From a tuning stand point s55 is better as of now to work with. Once the B58 gets more attention then minds will change. On top of that in order to push some serious power out of the S55 you need upgraded turbos told hold boost passed 5500 rpms and clutch packs to hold the power. Some guys tremble at 200 dollar catch cans... so right now your upwards of 8k with just clutch packs and turbos... don't forget about fueling which is another 500-1500 depending on the setup. Plus chargepipes and intake... see what I'm getting with at this. Let's not forget about the crank hub... which go to shit when your stock.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by PeterA90

Just to give you guys an idea. My car dynoed on mustang 420/420 awhp/awtq on pump gas and 50/50 mix of meth/water... B58 has great potential. There's awd n54's that are FBO running E, that don't even put that out. The problem with this motor is the fuel cap. Even with WMI I'm still able to hit it. WMI simply raises the threshold and bandaids the problem. From a tuning stand point s55 is better as of now to work with. Once the B58 gets more attention then minds will change. On top of that in order to push some serious power out of the S55 you need upgraded turbos told hold boost passed 5500 rpms and clutch packs to hold the power. Some guys tremble at 200 dollar catch cans... so right now your upwards of 8k with just clutch packs and turbos... don't forget about fueling which is another 500-1500 depending on the setup. Plus chargepipes and intake... see what I'm getting with at this. Let's not forget about the crank hub... which go to shit when your stock.

Perfectly said and all 100% accurate. I believe as well once the b58 dme is cracked you will have people flocking to the platform including myself. Hell I want one now even.
Not knocking the m3/4 at all, such beautiful machines and great all around car but for me that s55 meh not so much.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by newbie340

I would prefer less turbo lag in the low rpms (I know ppl say its smooth but I feel a lot of engine hesitancy in first/second gear). Also, I FULLY LOADED (which includes track package) this bad boy to like a $64,000 MSRP. So I am not looking to do that in M3 form. Plus I want AWD for ski trips etc (hence no M3). Therefore, I am looking for ways to increase performance and get as close as possible.

You think B58 is bad with turbo lag, drive an s55 powered car. It's nasty lag-o-licious.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by newbie340

I was wondering if someone could tell me the real differences between the M3's engine and the B58?

Is it just a tune and a larger turbocharger? They both have the same 3.0L no?

I just want to know because I plan on getting the Dinan +MPPK over the next year or two and wondering if this is well within the engines range of power or if my engine/transmission is going to poop out on me 100,000 miles in because of this.

Thanks!

M series engines generally aren't "just a tune and larger turbo charger". There is a lot that goes into engineering the engines used in M cars for track duty cycle which isn't for your typical N54/N55/B58 series.

Originally Posted by insanecoder

S55 has 2 turbos

Bottom line short of it is the S55 going to have higher rated internal parts & surrounding systems to better cope with the heat and pressures involved with more HP & torque.
Many of B58/340's internals also have high ratings but not all & its the weaker point in the chain which fails eventually the system.. the M3 got a stronger chain overall built for it.
Cant expect to overstress the system and not have the reliability not take a hit longterm

+1.

S55: http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/09/25/meet-new-s55-engine/

N2 N55: http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/07/28/bm...ven-better-m2/

Originally Posted by newbie340

Is there any way to fix this?/parts I could install to help prevent the wear? Also this whole time I thought my "twinscroll" was a twin turbo/two turbos

There's no cost effective way to upgrade engine internals.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

M series engines generally aren't "just a tune and larger turbo charger". There is a lot that goes into engineering the engines used in M cars for track duty cycle which isn't for your typical N54/N55/B58 series.




+1.

S55: http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/09/25/meet-new-s55-engine/

N2 N55: http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/07/28/bm...ven-better-m2/




There's no cost effective way to upgrade engine internals.

yea agreed even the B58 and its system components are mated properly as well and I'm sure people dont respect that they can throw things out of wack by arbitrarily throwing in an upgrade here and there.. I'd think B58 system would be optimized for low and mid rpm ranges for the street

regarding cost effectiveness..ie.. forged pistons are near $1000.. B58 would likely need those and toss in better rings and forged valves & better springs maybe suspension braces lsd etc installation and more we are starting to talk serious money

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

yea agreed even the B58 and its system components are mated properly as well and I'm sure people dont respect that they can throw things out of wack by arbitrarily throwing in an upgrade here and there.. I'd think B58 system would be optimized for low and mid rpm ranges for the street

regarding cost effectiveness..ie.. forged pistons are near $1000.. B58 would likely need those and toss in better rings and forged valves & better springs maybe suspension braces lsd etc installation and more we are starting to talk serious money

At that point, one should just buy a M2 or M3 and have a factory warranty with it...

[PeterA90]

B58 has forged rods and forged crankshaft from factory. Regardless there's n54's that are open deck on stock internals pushing over 600whp...

[bimmer456]

Dinan and jb4 tunes deliver more power at least on paper for less $$. There have been reliability issues based on the forum however, and German cars aren't super reliable to begin with. MPPSK is backed by BMW and shouldn't give you any problems. I have the extended warranty on my car so I'd be curious to se how the mppsk and dinan warrantys apply in my case or If I can upgrade the warranty to match my upgraded factory warranty.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by PeterA90

B58 has forged rods and forged crankshaft from factory. Regardless there's n54's that are open deck on stock internals pushing over 600whp...

BMW isnt going to escape physics/engineering. There are different quality of forged rods and besides what about the pins & cap securing the rods? Forged crankshaft is good but where the assembly meets the heat/pressure square-on is the piston head and the rings. You can run parts above ratings nearterm but its high% to affect longterm wear/reliability.
Not saying they put the best forged parts on the S55 but in order to make the 5 YR warranty they must have chosen those to last at least for that warranty period or their out the money on repairs..
usually you design piece together parts to make the spec give it a tolerance and tune everything together and no more to save $$$ so a large majority of B58 system is pieced together with that spec in mind.. so you stress the entire system but upgrade only some of the parts and its likely to fail over time at the myriad of weak points you havent covered

[PeterA90]

If you're worried about the car breaking I'll simplify your headache. LEAVE it stock. This is a silly conversations. Nothing is unbreakable no matter how over engineered it is.

[BLACK HAWK DOWN]

BMW would definitely have done extensive failure analysis on the B58 that would cover at least the HP/TRQ of the MPPSK and determined the likelihood of failures of multiple parts.
To save $$$, only the parts that showed high probability of failure would have been upgraded, upgraded only to have a higher level of survival at a HP/TRQ rating they would be comfortable with, hence maybe the fuel cap.
I doubt they will be catering to those who want 400HP/TRQ+ and still want warranty.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by toybm

BMW would definitely have done extensive failure analysis on the B58 that would cover at least the HP/TRQ of the MPPSK and determined the likelihood of failures of multiple parts.
To save $$$, only the parts that showed high probability of failure would have been upgraded, upgraded only to have a higher level of survival at a HP/TRQ rating they would be comfortable with, hence maybe the fuel cap.
I doubt they will be catering to those who want 400HP/TRQ+ and still want warranty.

They do. It's the M3. lol.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by Chicken_Joe

B58 with meth a JB4 will gap an m3

I think it all comes down to what the OP wants to do with the car. If you are wanting a fast street car, its hard to beat a tuned 340. If you are going to track the car a decent amount, start with a M3.