[sam555]

Originally Posted by micvite

Pretty much, ask bmw if service was done, I wouldn't bother with CPO it's just marketing, and you're gonna pay on average 5% more for it when it really doesn't mean the car is any better than a non cpo, they literally just do a multipoint inspection and just say oh brakes and tires are good, no error codes, brake fluid and coolant is good, cool CPO and we can charge more! Only benefit to cpo is the unlimited mileage warranty, which depending if you plan to keep the car over 100k and you think you'd drive over 100k in the next 3-4 years would make it worth it, otherwise just get an extended warranty (preferably the bmw branded one from safeguard, I can put you in contact with someone that sells them for the best price) and you're covered for 6 years 100k total miles from the first day the car was registered. (BMW can also tell you that, it's called in service date)

@micvite yes if you can provide the contact of the person at Safeguard, that would be appreciated. Can you post the contact here? Lmk.

[micvite]

Originally Posted by sam555

@micvite yes if you can provide the contact of the person at Safeguard, that would be appreciated. Can you post the contact here? Lmk.

Yeah I was referred to her as well, it's a finance manager from a dealership that sells them at cost basically (so cheapest you're gonna find)
cnewman@stevethomasbmw.com
That's the email. You're definitely gonna find cheaper 3rd party warranties but with this at least if you have issues you have bmw to potentially back you up in case coverage gets denied for some odd reason.

[3er]

Your direction should be based on your personality and what keeps you up at night. I've paid plenty of tuition in the "school of cars" to know that I don't sleep well owning a $100K+ car without a warranty - regardless if I can cover the cost. Call it a personal quirk. Others don't worry about it at all and it works really well for them. Determine which camp you fall in and go from there. Unfortunately, though, it sometimes requires one to learn the hard way to reach to a conclusion.

[pbonsalb]

Yes, you are paying for peace of mind or at least peace of mind as to the powertain and other covered parts. And if that is important, pay for the insurance. As we all probably know about most forms of insurance, the insurance is never needed or if it is needed, you paid more than the benefit over the term.

[LouK]

I can speak to this as I just purchased an 18 M5.
For years I told myself it was too expensive and "settled" for other vehicles.
most recently I was about to get an M550I. I had the options picked out, then I had all the mods lined up for after it arrived. The wife made the comment of "compromising again I see" or something along those lines. Realized I continue to buy something..modify it..then still not happy with it.
Found the one I have now, was perfect all options right, I looked up the previous owner, got all the maint records. CPO until march of 2024. Couldn't be happier, Yes it was almost the same money for this used than a new M550I, but I dont care I have the car I wanted!

[3er]

Originally Posted by LouK

I can speak to this as I just purchased an 18 M5.
For years I told myself it was too expensive and "settled" for other vehicles.
most recently I was about to get an M550I. I had the options picked out, then I had all the mods lined up for after it arrived. The wife made the comment of "compromising again I see" or something along those lines. Realized I continue to buy something..modify it..then still not happy with it.
Found the one I have now, was perfect all options right, I looked up the previous owner, got all the maint records. CPO until march of 2024. Couldn't be happier, Yes it was almost the same money for this used than a new M550I, but I dont care I have the car I wanted!

Similar experience in that I was about to place an order for a new M550i and decided to look at CPO out of curiosity. Normally, spending similar money on a used car would be a no-go, but BMW's extended warranty & maintenance plan allows me to get more car, have peace of mind, and enjoy the hell out of it until I move on to the next thing.

[UglyBuzzard]

M w/ one number > M w/ three numbers 😎

[sam555]

Thank you very much. You guys have been absolutely wonderful, and pursuing some of the references provided here. One more question. I am tying to gauge how used M5 prices compare in this market with a non inflated market. The m550i prices are clearly inflated by about 6-7% imho. My hunch is that M5 is less overpriced. Simply put, a 2019 M5 base with some of the options such as exec, and say 36k miles. What would it be priced in a normal market? Right now they seem to be running low to mid 80s. Thanks.

[secretariat]

Originally Posted by Pzl1nz00

You should calculate the interest on a 6 year loan at 1.99%.

If inflation is above 2%, which it is (try around 8% actually), it is better than free money! Cash sitting in bank is losing value more than the interest for the amount you are borrowing.

If I can borrow someone else's money for less than inflation, that is a smart deal!

There is NO risk in that whatsoever, absolutely NONE!

After trying to buy an M550i and getting bitch slapped in this market with dealers hiking prices, reneging commitments etc., I am now considering a 2019 M5 with about 30K odd miles. I am not an affluent man and am going to be doing a loan on this baby for 6 yrs. Likely will take me all to pay off, and am at the top end of my budget. With that said, M5s look less overpriced than the M550is, and hey, it's an M5.

PZINZ00 I get the whole loan concept thank you for that. Why don't you try reading what the OP wrote ^^^^ and tell me again that their is no risk involved. If you read what I wrote I'm not interested in the interest for the loan that you think he will get but I do think that a 6 year loan is crazy. The OP has mentioned he is stretched as it is and it will take him the entire 6 years to pay off a vehicle. So if everything goes to plan he will have a 2019 M5 paid off in 2028. This administration has no idea how to deal with the self made inflation problem we have in this country, and I can see gas prices continuing to rise so if the OP does this deal and is stretched to the max of his budget than he will have an M5 that he can't drive.

[pbonsalb]

1.99% for 6 years is fantastic in today’s loan market if you can get that deal. The risk is in the 6 year loan on a 3 year old car.

I would not necessarily be opposed to that, but I can do pretty much all the maintenance and repairs my car needs. When I bought my CPO 2018 M5 in early 2021, it was a 3 year old car and I took out a 5 year loan. I could have paid cash for a new M5 Comp but did not want to tie up my cash. A 6 year loan would not have been much different.

People have different views on risk, savings, and spending. I am on Garage Journal where there are a lot of conservative old people who would never buy an expensive car or any luxury until their house was paid off, their retirement completely funded and they had cash for the fancy car. I don’t subscribe to that philosophy, but it is fine if they do.

I do agree that stretching finances and taking a lot of risk to have a fancy car that will just be going down in value is not smart. Maybe the OP knows he will be making a lot more in a few year or will be inheriting some money. In general, though, fancy BMWs well out of warranty are worth a small fraction of their cost new due to the potentially very expensive repairs, though the cars are still shiny and look great.

[Pzl1nz00]

Originally Posted by secretariat

After trying to buy an M550i and getting bitch slapped in this market with dealers hiking prices, reneging commitments etc., I am now considering a 2019 M5 with about 30K odd miles. I am not an affluent man and am going to be doing a loan on this baby for 6 yrs. Likely will take me all to pay off, and am at the top end of my budget. With that said, M5s look less overpriced than the M550is, and hey, it's an M5.

PZINZ00 I get the whole loan concept thank you for that. Why don't you try reading what the OP wrote ^^^^ and tell me again that their is no risk involved. If you read what I wrote I'm not interested in the interest for the loan that you think he will get but I do think that a 6 year loan is crazy. The OP has mentioned he is stretched as it is and it will take him the entire 6 years to pay off a vehicle. So if everything goes to plan he will have a 2019 M5 paid off in 2028. This administration has no idea how to deal with the self made inflation problem we have in this country, and I can see gas prices continuing to rise so if the OP does this deal and is stretched to the max of his budget than he will have an M5 that he can't drive.

I read what the OP wrote.

You threw the idea out there that you are not comfortable with a 6 year loan due to "too long" and "inflation". "I would never take a 6 year loan", is the statement you made.

If you wanted to base your position to OP to pass based on the fact the OP is stretching himself, and that the economy could be going through a tough patch over the coming years, I could find logic and reason in that argument; but, that is a different argument than the one I gathered where it seemed you were stating 'you shouldn't do it due to inflation and too long a term on a used car.'

Again, a 6 year loan makes perfect sense to borrow someone else's money, especially when I can do something with my own money which is far more lucrative. 1.99% is essential free money in this environment. If you have cash in the bank you are losing 8.3% from last year due to inflation. I simply was offering to the OP that IF you are buying a car, a very low 6 year loan makes a lot of sense, rather than waiting and having to secure a loan at 7% or 10%. We won't see low rates again for many years! So again, this is a financing math problem, with a math solution, irrespective to personal budget situation which is for OP to figure out.

For many years, my wife and I saved and didn't spend any money on items like a nice car or fancy house and I can now make the argument that we weren't living/enjoying life along the way… We are still very conservative with our budget and live well below our means but so glad we decided to not be so rigid and bought a M5 to enjoy! Every time my wife drives her M5 she is smiling ear to ear! Life is about balance and enjoyment along the way…

OP has to figure out his personal situation and again I was offering a thought that makes a lot of financial sense if he finds the right car for the right price.

[secretariat]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

1.99% for 6 years is fantastic in today’s loan market if you can get that deal. The risk is in the 6 year loan on a 3 year old car.

I would not necessarily be opposed to that, but I can do pretty much all the maintenance and repairs my car needs. When I bought my CPO 2018 M5 in early 2021, it was a 3 year old car and I took out a 5 year loan. I could have paid cash for a new M5 Comp but did not want to tie up my cash. A 6 year loan would not have been much different.

People have different views on risk, savings, and spending. I am on Garage Journal where there are a lot of conservative old people who would never buy an expensive car or any luxury until their house was paid off, their retirement completely funded and they had cash for the fancy car. I don’t subscribe to that philosophy, but it is fine if they do.

I do agree that stretching finances and taking a lot of risk to have a fancy car that will just be going down in value is not smart. Maybe the OP knows he will be making a lot more in a few year or will be inheriting some money. In general, though, fancy BMWs well out of warranty are worth a small fraction of their cost new due to the potentially very expensive repairs, though the cars are still shiny and look great.

I agree but I do believe that we can erase any thoughts of the OP inheriting or earning a lot more money in a few years if he states it will take the whole 6 years to pay off the debt.

[pbonsalb]

Not necessarily. Some things can’t be predicted to the year, but are virtually certain. I see nothing wrong with a 6 year loan instead of a 5 or 4 year loan or no loan at all. Whatever works. I do see risk in an expensive car that is out of warranty, but the OP did write that he could budget $3k per year for repairs and maintenance. That should be enough, but you can’t know with absolute certainty.

[sam555]

If I may humbly ask, to what extent is $mid 80s with an exec package, 36K miles inflated in today's market? What would be the price on a similar machine (i.e. 3 years old, same miles), say a year back? Slap on extended warranty costs, and we are looking at low $90s. Whether I inherit millions or not..��..like to know 'fair price'.

[BMWF90M5]

Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard

I wouldn't consider CPO just marketing. It is a bit of air cover from BMW NA and dealership accountability.

Doubtful a dealer will CPO a car that was tuned. Would they sell one uncertified though? Don't really know.

My experience with a 2012 CPO X5 5.0 M-sport was a nightmare. Research N63 those years. In 2 + years I can't even count the amount of times it was in the shop. Got to the point where I called BMW NA and asked them to look at my history and that I trusted the brand, even so much as buying a CPO. Point blank asked them to take the car back. Guess what, they agreed and bought the car back for almost what I paid for it. The CPO played a significant factor in that outcome. Why I always by CPO, with manufacture extended warranties - I consider it leverage and insurance…

When I turned my BMW back in off lease it was tuned, dealer immediately CPO'd it, and it sold it with the tune on. I knew the person that bought it. CPO is crap IMO, just a way for the dealer to squeeze out some extra $

[TFBravo]

Originally Posted by mjr24

They are trash cars compared to a M5, be serious. They aren't even comparable cars in any way. It's obvious he is set on a BMW.

How about you be serious, how is a Lexus IS 500 trash compared to an M5? Because it'll last 200k+ miles and you don't have to feverishly figure out how to keep it past its 3/36 warranty like in this thread and this entire forum. The better interior make it trash? When you got plastic cheap buttons on a car that you can spec out to 160K, or because that NA 5.0L sounds like a true V8 and not like a farting vacuum cleaner. Just because its not faster does not make it trash. Is M5 trash compared to a Porsche or a Tesla?
Be serious, people here switch cars at 40k miles on average, zero data on cars past 100k mark. And statistically, unless its a diesel, show me any high performance twin turbo engine that can last, those turbos WILL fail before the engine does. Infinity is trash you're correct.

M and AMG cars are by nature more reliable, since they are partially or fully forged, hand assembled and more care goes into the quality of assembly. True trash is the regular Mercedes and BMW cars, not Japanese. I don't know how people spend 70k on a 5 series, that drives and has the interior of a Nissan Altima.

This shouldn't be a dilemma for the OP, if he can't afford than he just can't afford it. I don't believe that M5s are not as inflated as similar year M550s. A used M5 will always bring a bigger bill, not just in repairs, even if its reliable, there is more maintenance to be done. At 40k miles, brakes and rotors, plugs and diff oil changes, might as well start saving before you buy the car, even if you do them yourself, they will considerably be more than M550s parts. I forget when the coolant need to be flushed, one more thing that a used car buyer need to look into.

Wait a year, with inflation and car bubble bursting, used car prices SHOULD correct themselves, as well as mark ups with new. Not that its an issue as it is pretty easy to buy BMW at MSRP, I got mine even with a mil discount. Its more of an issue with average car brands. So probably buying that Lexus would be much harder than any M5 or 550.

[TFBravo]

Originally Posted by sam555

If I may humbly ask, to what extent is $mid 80s with an exec package, 36K miles inflated in today's market? What would be the price on a similar machine (i.e. 3 years old, same miles), say a year back? Slap on extended warranty costs, and we are looking at low $90s. Whether I inherit millions or not..��..like to know 'fair price'.

BMW, Benz and Audis especially high luxury versions always suffered a tremendous dip at the 3 year mark, normally they would loose over 25%. Worst brands in general when it comes depreciating. In comparison a Toyota 4Runner would loose only 10% in 3 years. Look at older M5s or AMGs or even Maybachs, its almost a joke when you can get a 10 year old car for 40 that used to be a 150k.

Normally in the high 70s for a 3 year old German car, as in your example. I bought a 2020 E63S brand new for $110K (123K sticker), during the lock down, a year old E63S was around 95-101K, a 2017 was high 70s, which was scary for me. I was expecting a 50k loss based on my window sticker. That was in 2020.

Because of the LCI, a 19 M5 for mid 80s with only 36k miles is a reasonable price, I mean what's the window sticker of the car. Used LCI 2021 or 2022 are what's truly inflated. As my example above with the AMG, driving a 100k German car of the lot you would loose a good 5 to 10K right away, normally. Well right now its not the case, driving a car of the lot make the value go up or stay the same. A used 2021 and 2022 cost the same or more than MSRP.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by TFBravo

How about you be serious, how is a Lexus IS 500 trash compared to an M5? Because it'll last 200k+ miles and you don't have to feverishly figure out how to keep it past its 3/36 warranty like in this thread and this entire forum. The better interior make it trash? When you got plastic cheap buttons on a car that you can spec out to 160K, or because that NA 5.0L sounds like a true V8 and not like a farting vacuum cleaner. Just because its not faster does not make it trash. Is M5 trash compared to a Porsche or a Tesla?
Be serious, people here switch cars at 40k miles on average, zero data on cars past 100k mark. And statistically, unless its a diesel, show me any high performance twin turbo engine that can last, those turbos WILL fail before the engine does. Infinity is trash you're correct.

M and AMG cars are by nature more reliable, since they are partially or fully forged, hand assembled and more care goes into the quality of assembly. True trash is the regular Mercedes and BMW cars, not Japanese. I don't know how people spend 70k on a 5 series, that drives and has the interior of a Nissan Altima.

This shouldn't be a dilemma for the OP, if he can't afford than he just can't afford it. I don't believe that M5s are not as inflated as similar year M550s. A used M5 will always bring a bigger bill, not just in repairs, even if its reliable, there is more maintenance to be done. At 40k miles, brakes and rotors, plugs and diff oil changes, might as well start saving before you buy the car, even if you do them yourself, they will considerably be more than M550s parts. I forget when the coolant need to be flushed, one more thing that a used car buyer need to look into.

Wait a year, with inflation and car bubble bursting, used car prices SHOULD correct themselves, as well as mark ups with new. Not that its an issue as it is pretty easy to buy BMW at MSRP, I got mine even with a mil discount. Its more of an issue with average car brands. So probably buying that Lexus would be much harder than any M5 or 550.

"I don't know how people spend 70k on a 5 series"

^ My sentiments exactly on this point.

[JetDriver]

Originally Posted by TFBravo

How about you be serious, how is a Lexus IS 500 trash compared to an M5? Because it'll last 200k+ miles and you don't have to feverishly figure out how to keep it past its 3/36 warranty like in this thread and this entire forum. The better interior make it trash? When you got plastic cheap buttons on a car that you can spec out to 160K, or because that NA 5.0L sounds like a true V8 and not like a farting vacuum cleaner. Just because its not faster does not make it trash. Is M5 trash compared to a Porsche or a Tesla?
Be serious, people here switch cars at 40k miles on average, zero data on cars past 100k mark. And statistically, unless its a diesel, show me any high performance twin turbo engine that can last, those turbos WILL fail before the engine does. Infinity is trash you're correct.

M and AMG cars are by nature more reliable, since they are partially or fully forged, hand assembled and more care goes into the quality of assembly. True trash is the regular Mercedes and BMW cars, not Japanese. I don't know how people spend 70k on a 5 series, that drives and has the interior of a Nissan Altima.

This shouldn't be a dilemma for the OP, if he can't afford than he just can't afford it. I don't believe that M5s are not as inflated as similar year M550s. A used M5 will always bring a bigger bill, not just in repairs, even if its reliable, there is more maintenance to be done. At 40k miles, brakes and rotors, plugs and diff oil changes, might as well start saving before you buy the car, even if you do them yourself, they will considerably be more than M550s parts. I forget when the coolant need to be flushed, one more thing that a used car buyer need to look into.

Wait a year, with inflation and car bubble bursting, used car prices SHOULD correct themselves, as well as mark ups with new. Not that its an issue as it is pretty easy to buy BMW at MSRP, I got mine even with a mil discount. Its more of an issue with average car brands. So probably buying that Lexus would be much harder than any M5 or 550.

Amen brother.

BMW does have an interesting business model (Audi and Merc are not far behind them). It's quite the riot actually. They've got their customers so paranoid about maintenance costs post-warranty expiration, that it drives the short-term lease machine, which is really what they want. Their focus is on the customer that will only keep a car 2-3 years (mostly 3/4 series and the X3). Almost 80% of BMW's are leased, followed closely by Audi (vs. 55% for Lexus). People lease through BMW at high interest rates and think they're getting a good deal because they're stepping into a $50,000+ car for a "low" monthly payment with very little money down that'll be under warranty the entire time. I know this concept is no different than any other lease on any other car, but the fact the maintenance costs are so high is what raises my eyebrow. Does it need to be so high? Probably not. Are BMW's that problematic? That may require some research into Consumer Reports, but the 2 Series was voted the most reliable small premium car of 2017 so I really think these cars will go a lot longer without issues than we think they will. Of course, the more electrons that flow through your vehicular systems, the more chance of something breaking. There's definitely no shortage of electronics in these cars.

BMW likes getting lease returns because they CPO them and sell them just far enough under under MSRP to make them attractive for people that can't afford or can't get a new car on their timeline. All car dealers benefit from a good stock of used cars to offset low new stock; "Well, you can wait 6 months for a new one or you can go with this low-mileage CPO one now for a special price of....", but I think we can all agree that BMW's CPO program leaves little to be desired compared to other CPO programs (like Toyota). Lets look at Lexus's warranty. 4/50,000 comp and 6/70,000 powertrain and another 2/20,000 for CPO's, which starts on date of purchase and not the date the car was "put into service". Even though these cars are basically Toyota Camry's, Toyota acknowledges the fact that people paying a premium price for their premium lineup deserve a more premium warranty. Makes sense, right? I wish Lexus made a modern day ISF that could compete with the M3, but more and more companies are getting out of the gas guzzler business because it's becoming a smaller and smaller market everyday. I won't even talk about the $98,xxx Genesis G90 that comes with a 10/100,000 warranty. It can be done and these days, it should be done. The decision to trade up or keep your expensive luxury car shouldn't feel like a game of Russian Roulette. Why can't BMW put more trust into their vehicles; some of the most praised sports/luxury sedans on the planet? We all know the answer....$$$$$$, but there's no getting around the fact the cars are over-engineered and hard to work on.

With that being long-winded, BMW makes the best performing sport sedans on the road (M3/M5) with really no other competition and if you want that, you've got to pay to play. We all know these things aren't investments. They're luxuries. If you look at the cost of extending your warranty, a 7/100,000 with BMW Platinum is almost $7,000. Is it worth it to spend that type of cash on a warranty or just go for a 2020-2021 model? I don't know. It seems like there's only about a $6,000-10,000 difference between 2019's and 2021's with similar mileage across the nation (a quick look through CarGurus). I would just spend the cash on a newer car. There are quite a few 2021's in the $95,000-100,000 range and I'm sure there's some wiggle room there. You're going to start seeing more lease returns show up in lots.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by TFBravo

How about you be serious, how is a Lexus IS 500 trash compared to an M5? Because it'll last 200k+ miles and you don't have to feverishly figure out how to keep it past its 3/36 warranty like in this thread and this entire forum. The better interior make it trash? When you got plastic cheap buttons on a car that you can spec out to 160K, or because that NA 5.0L sounds like a true V8 and not like a farting vacuum cleaner. Just because its not faster does not make it trash. Is M5 trash compared to a Porsche or a Tesla?
Be serious, people here switch cars at 40k miles on average, zero data on cars past 100k mark. And statistically, unless its a diesel, show me any high performance twin turbo engine that can last, those turbos WILL fail before the engine does. Infinity is trash you're correct.

M and AMG cars are by nature more reliable, since they are partially or fully forged, hand assembled and more care goes into the quality of assembly. True trash is the regular Mercedes and BMW cars, not Japanese. I don't know how people spend 70k on a 5 series, that drives and has the interior of a Nissan Altima.

This shouldn't be a dilemma for the OP, if he can't afford than he just can't afford it. I don't believe that M5s are not as inflated as similar year M550s. A used M5 will always bring a bigger bill, not just in repairs, even if its reliable, there is more maintenance to be done. At 40k miles, brakes and rotors, plugs and diff oil changes, might as well start saving before you buy the car, even if you do them yourself, they will considerably be more than M550s parts. I forget when the coolant need to be flushed, one more thing that a used car buyer need to look into.

Wait a year, with inflation and car bubble bursting, used car prices SHOULD correct themselves, as well as mark ups with new. Not that its an issue as it is pretty easy to buy BMW at MSRP, I got mine even with a mil discount. Its more of an issue with average car brands. So probably buying that Lexus would be much harder than any M5 or 550.

What is the point of your rant? Lexus has been irrelevant for literally 15 years. End of story.

People who buy a performance BMW are a way different demographic then those who buy a Lexus IS whatever. Yeah, I was thinking of buying a M5 or M550i….and then I just decided to buy a Lexus (said no one ever).

It's like the OP was debating Jordan and LeBron and you brought up some women's basketball player…..like WTF are you even talking about?