Autocar Reports: F90 M5 gets 600hp S63, xDrive, 8 Speed Auto (ZF), 5 Driving Modes

ORIGIN M. · 03-10-2017, 04:28 PM

True, because most Audi's are. Not the case here.

Go drive a xDrive X5M in Sport+, then you will understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RACEM4TE

But when audi does a rear wheel drive biased car, everyone goes nuts and say they're fwd biased

ORIGIN M. · 03-10-2017, 04:29 PM

700HP and comes w ///M-Diapers !!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///M1990

Relax people, don't worry about the 600 HP that they claimed. They are leaving room for competition package

shoei · 03-10-2017, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclemans

I think Audi uses ZF too and its RS7 Performance already makes 605hp.

So it is a mere catch up with Audi and Mercedes (both uses 4 wheel drive already).

So no electric and no hybrid yet?

Germany recent law requires cars to be emission free by 2030

The clock is clicking

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-official-says

And that is one of the biggest complaints with the RS7 - their slushbox...

ezmaass · 03-10-2017, 04:48 PM

1. While the ZF boxes are great as far as normal autos go, they're nowhere near the experience of a DCT. Any M-badge car should NOT be using a ZF box. I have a ZF in my 650xi GC and S-Tronic DCT in my R8, and you can't even begin to compare the two. The DCT makes the ZF look like it's broken.

2. If we're going to insist on bigger and bigger HP numbers, xDrive is inevitable. It just is. Anything RWD just can't use that power effectively. Done the right way (using a lightweight system, rear bias, etc), it'll be just fine.

3. The 5 is now bigger than a 7 from just a few generations ago. And at over 4k lbs, this is no corner carver. Be realistic here, folks. This thing is designed as a GT car, pure and simple. At these dimensions, I almost wonder if an M-version even makes sense. The M550xi is sufficient for the same use cases. What does an M5, especially with a ZF box, electric steering and xDrive, bring to the table that's really different?

Honestly, all of these massively fat, high HP sedans with "sport" badging on them are getting to be too much. The M division needs to go back to its roots and focus on track-ready street cars that actually perform... not just 0 - 60 but actually HANDLE and feel sporty. You don't need 600+ HP. You need a lighter, smaller car that can accelerate, stop, AND turn. My 650xi GC has more power than I need in daily driving, and that's a "mere" 445hp.

kevinlevrone · 03-10-2017, 04:51 PM

Who would have thought that torque converter automatic gearboxes are the future ? I guess we will have to get used to it...

M3 Number 86 · 03-10-2017, 04:51 PM

I still don't get it. If I wanted an AWD bruiser I'd get an RS7 but that's not what I want (and what a lot of people do not want).

Let's just leave BMW M cars rwd please. You can always get an X5M or X6M.

ilya335 · 03-10-2017, 04:51 PM

+1 on the xDrive with that much power

-1 on the ZF 8 speed. As great as it is, DCT adds that extra special to the car.

kevinlevrone · 03-10-2017, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezmaass

3. The 5 is now bigger than a 7 from just a few generations ago.

Actually, the current 5-series is much lighter than the previous one, and the 540i is about the weight of the E90 335i 3-series from a few years ago. This will probably be the most agile M5 ever.

kevinlevrone · 03-10-2017, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

I still don't get it. If I wanted an AWD bruiser I'd get an RS7 but that's not what I want (and what a lot of people do not want).

Let's just leave BMW M cars rwd please. You can always get an X5M or X6M.

I don't understand, if an AWD system is light and has the ability to send all the power to the rear wheels if you press a button, what's not to like ?

shivaswrath · 03-10-2017, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWSB328iM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infamousq

600 Hp when the B5 has 608...? M better do better then that. Overall nice car. ???

I was expecting at least 650hp.

They have to sell the comp package too in 2 years...

shivaswrath · 03-10-2017, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilya335

+1 on the xDrive with that much power

-1 on the ZF 8 speed. As great as it is, DCT adds that extra special to the car.

ZF8 is great on the track. An M ZF will be epic.

gmd2003 · 03-10-2017, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Well, if this is true, guess the all new F90 M5 will have too much torque to continue using Getrag DCT, will use ZF's automatic instead.....

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...ur-wheel-drive

Quote:

March 10, 2017

The BMW M5 will turn 32 years of rear-wheel-drive performance car tradition on its head this year with the introduction of the brand's first four-wheel-drive on the model.

The German super-saloon is set to run a reworked version of the outgoing fifth-generation models twin-turbocharged V8 petrol engine, producing upwards of 592bhp [600hp], along with a standard eight-speed automatic gearbox.

The four-wheel-drive model is described by senior BMW officials as not only the most powerful and fastest accelerating but also the most dynamically capable and technically advanced M5 yet.

BMW senior vice-president Hildegard Wortmann told Autocar last month that the model will be as significant as the latest 7 Series in defining the next generation of performance models.

Wortmann explained that in the same way that the 7 Series has set the agenda for upcoming driverless technology, the new M5 will represent the next generation of M-branded cars.

You will see in this car where we will take the [M] brand from here, she said. Ive driven it on track and its really special. The engineers have done an excellent job. Its outrageous.

Following an illustrious line of rear-wheel-drive-only predecessors, the new M5 is scheduled to make its world debut at the Frankfurt motor show in September before going on sale in the UK at a price expected to eclipse the £73,985 of the outgoing M5.

The newest member of M divisions line-up will challenge the recently introduced 603bhp twin-turbocharged 4.0-litre V8-powered Mercedes-AMG E63 S 4Matic and the successor to todays 560bhp twin-turbocharged 4.0-litre V8-powered Audi RS6, which is planned for introduction next year.

The starting point for the sixth-generation M5 is the latest 5 Series, which is codenamed G30. The new M5 will feature a re-engineered body structure with a number of weight-saving initiatives, including greater use of aluminium and hot-formed high-strength steel as well as carbonfibre for the roof and bootlid. The new M5 is claimed to weigh close to the 1870kg of its predecessor despite a moderate increase in its exterior dimensions and the inclusion of the four-wheel drive hardware.

The new body structure was leaked on the internet in a series of CAD/CAM images late last year. Its claimed to provide the new M5 with vastly improved torsional rigidity and the basis for a significant change in chassis tuning compared with the outgoing M5, which was introduced to the UK in 2011.

Visually, the new car is set apart from other current 5 Series models by extensively restyled bumpers, an altered kidney grille design, wider front wings with chromed vent elements behind the front wheel arches to extract hot air from the engine bay, M-specific mirror housings, wider sills, a prominent rear diffuser element and signature quad chromed tailpipes.

Dimensionally, the M5 has grown. Length is up by 36mm to 4935mm and the car is now around 8mm wider, at 1870mm. The wheelbase is also 7mm longer than that of its predecessor, at 2975mm. In combination with front and rear tracks that extend beyond the 1625mm and 1580mm of todays model, this provides the M5 with a larger footprint than at any time since its introduction in 1981.

Power for the new M5 comes from a heavily reworked version of todays twin-turbo 4.4-litre V8 petrol engine, which carries the S63 designation. It features a modified induction process with changes to the intercooler and new twin-scroll turbochargers for improved combustion and thermal properties.

The 90deg V8 is said to deliver greater power and torque than the limited-volume M5 Competition Package model launched as a swansong for the old M5 last year. With 592bhp and 516lb ft of torque, that model has the distinction of being most powerful M5 yet.

For context, the most powerful variant of the latest 5 Series, the new M550i xDrive, runs a milder version of the twin-turbo V8, developing 456bhp and 480lb ft.

Channelling the new M5s prodigious reserves to the road is an eight-speed torque-converter automatic gearbox. The replacement for the existing seven-speed dual-clutch automatic unit is based around the standard ZF-produced gearbox used in other 5 Series models. Software will provide up to five driving modes, including an M Dynamic setting, accessed through buttons mounted on the steering wheel.

The new gearbox is allied to a specially developed version of BMWs xDrive all-wheel drive system, which uses a multiplate wet clutch located in the gearbox on the output to the front driveshaft. It provides a continuously variable split between front and rear axles.

In M Dynamic mode, the four-wheel drive system is programmed to deliver 100% of drive to the rear wheels in a process similar to the drift mode made available on the latest E63 S.

With four-wheel drive providing added traction off the line, the new M5s 0-62mph time is expected to dip well below that of its rear-wheel-drive predecessor and at least match the 3.5sec of the new E63. That would make it 0.4sec quicker than the now discontinued M5 Competition Package and an 0.8sec improvement on the standad version of the previous M5.

Top speed will again be restricted to 155mph, although an optional M Drivers Package will enable buyers to raise it to 190mph with new engine management software and the fitment of Z-rated tyres.

Details of the new M5s chassis set-up remain under wraps. However, engineers involved in its development say it adopts a largely bespoke double wishbone (front) and multi-link (rear) suspension system, together with new electro-mechanical steering that includes the active rearsteer function available on selected 5 Series models.

The new M5 will be built alongside other 5 Series models at BMWs Dingolfing factory in Germany and production is set to begin shortly before its unveiling in September. As with its predecessor, the new model will be sold in saloon guise only.

Also see: BIMMERPOST rendering of upcoming F90 M5 based on CAD images.

Going to have to call bullshit on the DCT can't handle the tq one right off the bat . Plenty of DCT's out there can handle way more tq than the new M5 will put out and do Launch control 50 times ..... . Cough 911 Turbo S cough for example . BMW is cheaping out if this is true . S63 variant again with same hp as the current CP , AWD to add weight so it will still be 4400 pounds at minimum , wider, longer body ,and a ZF auto . BMW please be better than this .

M4 GTS · 03-10-2017, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Why wouldn't you have a DCT for the next M5? Not trying to be funny - I honestly don't understand why you'd have the ZF in this car.

While the ZF might feel pretty "snappy" in a 320i, there should be a distinct difference in an M car from that perspective - perhaps they can achieve that with the ZF, but seems like a strange decision to me.

600 BHP + AWD = Beast though...the car will be really really fast.

M235 race car has 8 speed ZF

3M TAPE · 03-10-2017, 05:18 PM

Didn't BMW M say horsepower war is over?
Why are they keep raising the power?

trey100 · 03-10-2017, 05:29 PM

The guys complaining about 600 vs 608 vs 650 hp - really? 600 HP in what can basically be a family car is ridiculous. At that point who cares whether it's 600 or 650 besides bragging rights.

AWD was inevitable with this much power. I think people will be pleasantly surprised at how good this car will be.

Powaup · 03-10-2017, 05:33 PM

Shifting through 8 gears is such a pain. 7 is much better hopefully BMW gets gearing right

mrgicm · 03-10-2017, 05:37 PM

At least F10 will remain in demand

BwoodBMW · 03-10-2017, 06:02 PM

All sounds great to me! Even though it's completely unverified...

New non dct autos have become very good. Z06 vette for example is a pure performance box and people love it.
AWD that I can send completely to the back on demand - lovely. My M3 struggles to put power down, with 600hp + It'll need it.
The ultimate highway bomber to pick up in Munich and drive down through the alps -

apsuard · 03-10-2017, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Oh boy, don't even get me started on a rant here. All I will say for now, is that this is of course all hearsay and speculation. Nothing official from BMW here. Would be a damn shame and a real reason why I wouldn't buy the next M5 if it truly has an Automatic Wet Clutch Transmission, just like the Mercedes E63S.

Agree with Dave on this point. I can live with Xdrive if done right but I love the DCT. If the M5 has awd and auto it is copy cat of E63 and RS7.

KGB_123_99 · 03-10-2017, 06:17 PM

Will it sound as good as an E63 AMG?

IS3andME · 03-10-2017, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray knight

The M5 was never really an "M" car. Its too big. A real M car is something you can take straight to the race track and feel right about it. The M5 made all the right numbers but felt too big on the track and too wild on the street. This new one should be the ultimate daily driver! All weather traction, MASSIVE fast 0-60, all the usual luxury bits. Guys pushing hard for RWD only should really be driving M2/3/4 instead. Does anyone really want to drift in an M5? Its just not a hooligan car. Its a VERY fast luxury sport sedan.

I think a lot of e28 M5 owners disagree with you. This was the original Wolf In Sheep's clothing. The e28 M5 was seen first in 1984 at The Amsterdam Autoshow. Both the e28 M5 and the e30 M3 debuted around 1985-1986. And yes, we all know about the M3 and what it was meant for. But, the M5 was a different vehicle. And one could say that it traces its heritage back to the e12 M535i back in 1979. And the M1 was a road car first, then they tried racing it.
You say a lot of dogmatic absolutes, when that is just not true. The M5 has always been an "M" car. Just in a different vein. And let us be clear, only the e30 was the closest to a track car, because it was a homologation model. Everything else has been road car first. A real M car you can take straight to the track?hmm. There are many racers here that would not take take a M car, like an e92 M3 or even the M4 without upgrading the brakes among other things.

MnMnM · 03-10-2017, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infamousq

600 Hp when the B5 has 608...? M better do better then that. Overall nice car. ???

It's a fact that BMW under rates this engine (perhaps all of them)
Dinan has already dynoed the Competition Package version at 633HP (stock) so its actually already there. Like the member below hopes........it should be in the 650HP range but not advertised.

03-10-2017, 04:48 PM	#48
ezmaass Lieutenant Colonel 373 Rep 1,698 Posts Drives: '17 650xi GC / '15 Audi R8 V10 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: CT iTrader: (0)	1. While the ZF boxes are great as far as normal autos go, they're nowhere near the experience of a DCT. Any M-badge car should NOT be using a ZF box. I have a ZF in my 650xi GC and S-Tronic DCT in my R8, and you can't even begin to compare the two. The DCT makes the ZF look like it's broken. 2. If we're going to insist on bigger and bigger HP numbers, xDrive is inevitable. It just is. Anything RWD just can't use that power effectively. Done the right way (using a lightweight system, rear bias, etc), it'll be just fine. 3. The 5 is now bigger than a 7 from just a few generations ago. And at over 4k lbs, this is no corner carver. Be realistic here, folks. This thing is designed as a GT car, pure and simple. At these dimensions, I almost wonder if an M-version even makes sense. The M550xi is sufficient for the same use cases. What does an M5, especially with a ZF box, electric steering and xDrive, bring to the table that's really different? Honestly, all of these massively fat, high HP sedans with "sport" badging on them are getting to be too much. The M division needs to go back to its roots and focus on track-ready street cars that actually perform... not just 0 - 60 but actually HANDLE and feel sporty. You don't need 600+ HP. You need a lighter, smaller car that can accelerate, stop, AND turn. My 650xi GC has more power than I need in daily driving, and that's a "mere" 445hp. __________________ 2017 BMW 650xi Gran Coupe \| MSport \| Exec Package \| Driver Assist Plus \| ACC Stop & Go \| Adaptive Drive \| B&O \| Night Vision \| Cold Weather \| Active Seats 2015 Audi R8 V10 \| Brilliant Red on Black \| S-Tronic \| Carbon Sideblades \| Carbon Trim \| Full Leather \| Sport Exhaust \| Illuminated Doorsills \| I-Pod \| Contrast Stitching Previous: '14 550xi, '07 335i, '01 325i
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03-10-2017, 04:51 PM	#49
kevinlevrone Lieutenant 261 Rep 435 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Europe iTrader: (0)	Who would have thought that torque converter automatic gearboxes are the future ? I guess we will have to get used to it...
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03-10-2017, 04:51 PM	#50
M3 Number 86 Major General 3221 Rep 6,218 Posts Drives: black m3 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: pasadena iTrader: (1)	I still don't get it. If I wanted an AWD bruiser I'd get an RS7 but that's not what I want (and what a lot of people do not want). Let's just leave BMW M cars rwd please. You can always get an X5M or X6M. __________________ dadmobile IG: @M3number86 youtube: track vids
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03-10-2017, 04:51 PM	#51
ilya335 Second Lieutenant 180 Rep 282 Posts Drives: BMWs Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: West L.A. iTrader: (0)	+1 on the xDrive with that much power -1 on the ZF 8 speed. As great as it is, DCT adds that extra special to the car.
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03-10-2017, 05:18 PM	#58
3M TAPE Banned 350 Rep 1,225 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: States iTrader: (0)	Didn't BMW M say horsepower war is over? Why are they keep raising the power?
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03-10-2017, 05:29 PM	#59
trey100 Colonel 1125 Rep 2,564 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 Competition Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	The guys complaining about 600 vs 608 vs 650 hp - really? 600 HP in what can basically be a family car is ridiculous. At that point who cares whether it's 600 or 650 besides bragging rights. AWD was inevitable with this much power. I think people will be pleasantly surprised at how good this car will be.
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03-10-2017, 05:33 PM	#60
Powaup Brigadier General 1253 Rep 3,688 Posts Drives: 2021 Supra 3.0 (Past: 2015 M23 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: San Francisco, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 BMW M4 [10.00]	Shifting through 8 gears is such a pain. 7 is much better hopefully BMW gets gearing right __________________ Check out my YouTube Channel Powaup Instagram: @ Powaup
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03-10-2017, 05:37 PM	#61
mrgicm Captain 441 Rep 891 Posts Drives: BMW M Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	At least F10 will remain in demand
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03-10-2017, 06:02 PM	#62
BwoodBMW Colonel 1861 Rep 2,536 Posts Drives: EFFEIGHTY Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: LA LA land iTrader: (0)	All sounds great to me! Even though it's completely unverified... New non dct autos have become very good. Z06 vette for example is a pure performance box and people love it. AWD that I can send completely to the back on demand - lovely. My M3 struggles to put power down, with 600hp + It'll need it. The ultimate highway bomber to pick up in Munich and drive down through the alps -
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03-10-2017, 06:17 PM	#64
KGB_123_99 Captain 404 Rep 962 Posts Drives: '17 330ix M-Sport, '09 528ix Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Montreal, QC iTrader: (0)	Will it sound as good as an E63 AMG?
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