[AHall]

Originally Posted by limeypride

You asked the wrong question. As I've said a number of times, the car still shows Launch Control and the flag in the gauge cluster and it still shifts for you, etc., so their answer is technically correct. The question is whether the transmission continues using the special shift mode—known as quick shift 3 I think—after some predetermined number of launches. The answer to that question is, "no, it doesn't".

Note there's another thread where someone found the limit documented in the vehicle's user manual—I think it was for an X3M.

What is the correct question phrased in a way someone at BMW NA will understand and be able to get the answer instead of all this ambiguity? Someone posted on the M4/M3 board the number is now limited to 50. The transmission uses a different shift pattern that then changes to something called quick shift 3 after x number of launches? If you know the right question ask it. They seem to be willing to answer questions.

[///WeissBisBlau]

I doubt we are ever going to get BMW to admit that they hobble the car after so many launches. The aforementioned owner’s manual admission was for an X1, actually, unless I am mistaken. So, not an “M car”. I suspect that, being as they know full well that M car owners are going to be much more likely to use LC than owners of other regular BMWs, they also know that this admission would not go over well.

[CharlieBronsonF90]

I just bought my 21 a few weeks ago. Not going to lie, this is really a bummer. I came out of a 17 CTSV with 640 stock hp. I launched it daily. No limit on the number of launches and no limitation in terms of back to back to launches. Not sure how GM can achieve this while BMW can't. I know the mechanical components are different, but perhaps bmw should have engineered a method to allow unlimited/back to back launches. The Cadillac has more hp had torque🤷🏻Such a disappointment.

[SigForLife]

Originally Posted by AHall

Hello,

You guys can take this for what you will, but I contacted BMW NA Customer Service about this limit and asked the question. Is there a limit on the number of launches on the 2021 BMW M5 competition? They response was overlooked in my email until this morning when I was searching my email for something else. They responded back March 3, 2021 in the form of a letter from BMW Group. There is not limit on the number of launches. They letter does state launches do cause a very heavy load on the vehicle and also launch control should not be used during the break in period. Also stuff on operating temperature, steering etc.

So there it is in black in white from BMW Group.

Would you mind posting a screenshot of the email?

[CharlieBronsonF90]

Originally Posted by limeypride

You asked the wrong question. As I've said a number of times, the car still shows Launch Control and the flag in the gauge cluster and it still shifts for you, etc., so their answer is technically correct. The question is whether the transmission continues using the special shift mode—known as quick shift 3 I think—after some predetermined number of launches. The answer to that question is, "no, it doesn't".

Note there's another thread where someone found the limit documented in the vehicle's user manual—I think it was for an X3M.

This☝🏻

[AHall]

See letter

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by AHall

What is the correct question phrased in a way someone at BMW NA will understand and be able to get the answer instead of all this ambiguity? Someone posted on the M4/M3 board the number is now limited to 50. The transmission uses a different shift pattern that then changes to something called quick shift 3 after x number of launches? If you know the right question ask it. They seem to be willing to answer questions.

For me, there is no ambiguity--I've burned through the launches on 2 x F90s (M5) and an F93 (M8)... all Comps. As far as I know, my original post on this topic some 2 years back was the first mention of it on the forums. Many (most?) refuted my claims and many still do... presumably because they couldn't/can't tell the difference between the shift patterns (pattern being the "very engineering-esque" term that I used to describe them collectively way back when). It finally seems that others are noticing the same thing I did... so no ambiguity as to whether this is a "thing".

The term "quick shift" was something I learned from the BMW NA Corp technician. I was curious at the time and I asked him to elaborate which is when I learned--and later posted--about QS1, QS2 and QS3. That same tech told me and showed me the launch limit and my launch counter (via a screenshot of some diagnostic equipment)--both were at 100. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't perhaps different now or different depending on the engine, etc.

To the topic at hand: the question to ask is pretty much what I posted earlier. I've no interest in asking them. Here's another phrasing if you are:

"Does the ZF transmission in the current (MYs 19, 20 and 21) BMW M5/M8 use a lesser/restricted shift mode--one that takes longer to shift between gears during Launch Control launches--after some predetermined number of launches?"

[GTATX]

Originally Posted by limeypride

For me, there is no ambiguity--I've burned through the launches on 2 x F90s (M5) and an F93 (M8)... all Comps. As far as I know, my original post on this topic some 2 years back was the first mention of it on the forums. Many (most?) refuted my claims and many still do... presumably because they couldn't/can't tell the difference between the shift patterns (pattern being the "very engineering-esque" term that I used to describe them collectively way back when). It finally seems that others are noticing the same thing I did... so no ambiguity as to whether this is a "thing".

The term "quick shift" was something I learned from the BMW NA Corp technician. I was curious at the time and I asked him to elaborate which is when I learned--and later posted--about QS1, QS2 and QS3. That same tech told me and showed me the launch limit and my launch counter (via a screenshot of some diagnostic equipment)--both were at 100. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't perhaps different now or different depending on the engine, etc.

To the topic at hand: the question to ask is pretty much what I posted earlier. I've no interest in asking them. Here's another phrasing if you are:

"Does the ZF transmission in the current (MYs 19, 20 and 21) BMW M5/M8 use a lesser/restricted shift mode--one that takes longer to shift between gears during Launch Control launches--after some predetermined number of launches?"

Is agree as I have been complaining for a while that my 1st to 2nd then 2nd to 3rd I lose lot of time and this answers it. Now I wanna practice that if I start in launch and change gears straight away myself would that have a difference or no?

[SatinblkF90]

Another thing I’m curious about, is brake boosting the f90 giving a faster 0-60 than just hitting the gas off idle? Of course it won’t be as fast as the LC before reaching the 100 limit but maybe at least a better alternative to hitting the gas off idle which is only good for about 3.6-3.7 even on a stage 2 f90.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by GTATX

Is agree as I have been complaining for a while that my 1st to 2nd then 2nd to 3rd I lose lot of time and this answers it. Now I wanna practice that if I start in launch and change gears straight away myself would that have a difference or no?

Sadly no. The limiter slows shifts that seem to exceed some force-ceiling that presumably BMW and ZF defined together. There's nothing you can do (as far as I've learned across 3 cars) to circumvent it.

Again, though—this is my subjective experience, not objective facts from the source.

[GTATX]

Utku Noa from Evolve did another tcu update for me. 2.74 is the new update vs 2.72 in the past. Now I understand time was little slower but 2.72 was one off for me at a better DA and slope. If u look at the new time 2.74 iit's in worst DA and slope but apart from 0-10 everything else was quicker than 2.72. I'm gonna run another launch soon if weather permits but I think this update has made the shifts quicker at launch as this update specifically designed to address that. Let me know what y'all think? I know it's not a lot of data but I think this update is in the right direction. I have attached my most recent times from last couple of days as well and u can see how bad the times were at the same spot.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by GTATX

Utku Noa from Evolve did another tcu update for me. 2.74 is the new update vs 2.72 in the past. Now I understand time was little slower but 2.72 was one off for me at a better DA and slope. If u look at the new time 2.74 iit's in worst DA and slope but apart from 0-10 everything else was quicker than 2.72. I'm gonna run another launch soon if weather permits but I think this update has made the shifts quicker at launch as this update specifically designed to address that. Let me know what y'all think? I know it's not a lot of data but I think this update is in the right direction. I have attached my most recent times from last couple of days as well and u can see how bad the times were at the same spot.

I'm so envious—progress is progress!

[Rippy]

Last night I raced a friends Trackhawk. First round I used LC and put a good 6 cars on him and left him off the line.

2nd race I tried without launch control and he raped me off the line and it took me to 130km to catch and pass him

LC makes a huge difference
.
For me I plan on keeping this car long term so hopefully tuners will figure out a solution in the future.

[MTHX]

Originally Posted by GTATX

Utku Noa from Evolve did another tcu update for me. 2.74 is the new update vs 2.72 in the past. Now I understand time was little slower but 2.72 was one off for me at a better DA and slope. If u look at the new time 2.74 iit's in worst DA and slope but apart from 0-10 everything else was quicker than 2.72. I'm gonna run another launch soon if weather permits but I think this update has made the shifts quicker at launch as this update specifically designed to address that. Let me know what y'all think? I know it's not a lot of data but I think this update is in the right direction. I have attached my most recent times from last couple of days as well and u can see how bad the times were at the same spot.

Me with no tcu
2018 base
Jb4
michelin

About the LC.
I have more than 100 LC on my car, probably more around 130 - 150.
Still working.

Use it since summer 2018.
go to drag at least 5x years
make at least 10 run each time.

[AHall]

What are you 0-60 times

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by AHall

What are you 0-60 times

You read my mind. The 60ft will be telling, too.

[MTHX]

Originally Posted by AHall

What are you 0-60 times

Sorry.

The Android app sucks.

[GTATX]

Today better da but humid.

[GTATX]

So with new tcu file this is what I could do today. Tires are brand new so might need some break in. Hopping I can do maybe 2.7 or under 0-60 and I can be under 10.2. This the new tcu update from Utku Noa at evolve. Shift are definitely quicker.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by MTHX

Sorry.

The Android app sucks.

You still have QS3 then. I assume you can tell the difference between the launch control shift pattern and standard WOT shifts—no crack between each gear is the obvious.

I wish I understood how you've maintained it.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by GTATX

So with new tcu file this is what I could do today. Tires are brand new so might need some break in. Hopping I can do maybe 2.7 or under 0-60 and I can be under 10.2. This the new tcu update from Utku Noa at evolve. Shift are definitely quicker.

Nice!

[mjr24]

I just realized what a loser I am that I had a V10 M6, M6 GC, and now my F90 and have never once done a launch control in any of them.

I forget about it half the time.