[Ausf10]

Firstly, I am new here and apologies if this has been covered but I have looked and can't find a clear answer to this issue. Perhaps there isn't one...

I have just bought a 2011 528i F10 3.0 M52

It will not show the oil level on the centre display (it is greyed out) and service interval cannot be reset. Common problem, it seems...

When I access the 'hidden' menu on the dash cluster, voltage shows a consistent 13.8V. It might go to 13.9V on a 10km drive but overall it does not change. Certainly no voltage increases to 14-15V on the overrun or coasting that I have read about.

Do these problems together point to a faulty alternator, or are there other tests to make a more conclusive diagnosis? I have read it could be an oil level sender fault, alternator fault, or DME (or water pump or IBS!).

Sorry but I just could not find any clear answers online; plenty of threads where people just replaced these parts hoping for the best. Maybe that's what I'll have to end up doing...

EDIT: No fault codes present except B7F668, which I don't think is related.

[Ausf10]

Well, just crickets here. That's okay, I haven't had much luck with this elsewhere either, so far. I think I've probably put this in the wrong area of the forum anyway

I will report back once I have fixed this. First step is to get a copy of the BMW ISTA (?) software and OBDII lead/hardware to set up on an old WinXP laptop I have for such a purpose. Hopefully it might give some codes that will give an indication of where to start looking.

I have tried to get a ECU repairer to look at this here in Australia but no-one so far repairs this particular DME MSV90 ECU.

I have done about 60km since I was here last, and have parked on even ground after getting the car well up to temp, put it in Park and checked oil level. It is still not working, and I checked codes and voltage again on the 'hidden' cluster. The only thing I observed this time is that on the overrun the voltage does increase very slightly (from 13.8v to 13.9)... but hardly how I have heard this system described when functioning properly (up to 15v or more charging rate on the overrun). If I find a cheap used Denso alternator that matches mine I might give that a go but I am trying to resist parts replacement therapy.

I am loving driving my F10 so far, it's the type of car you can trundle around with no stress or push a bit harder and have some fun with fairly rewarding dynamics.

[StradaRedlands]

I had an intermittent problem of it not showing, but swapped in a new sensor, and that seemed to fix it. Also had a crap aftermarket alternator the PO put in, which may or may not have caused the problem. I would stay away from anything less than OE or OEM.

[SWFLf10]

Originally Posted by Ausf10

Well, just crickets here. That's okay, I haven't had much luck with this elsewhere either, so far. I think I've probably put this in the wrong area of the forum anyway

I will report back once I have fixed this. First step is to get a copy of the BMW ISTA (?) software and OBDII lead/hardware to set up on an old WinXP laptop I have for such a purpose. Hopefully it might give some codes that will give an indication of where to start looking.

I have tried to get a ECU repairer to look at this here in Australia but no-one so far repairs this particular DME MSV90 ECU.

I have done about 60km since I was here last, and have parked on even ground after getting the car well up to temp, put it in Park and checked oil level. It is still not working, and I checked codes and voltage again on the 'hidden' cluster. The only thing I observed this time is that on the overrun the voltage does increase very slightly (from 13.8v to 13.9)... but hardly how I have heard this system described when functioning properly (up to 15v or more charging rate on the overrun). If I find a cheap used Denso alternator that matches mine I might give that a go but I am trying to resist parts replacement therapy.

I am loving driving my F10 so far, it's the type of car you can trundle around with no stress or push a bit harder and have some fun with fairly rewarding dynamics.

PM'd regarding ISTA.

[Ausf10]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I had an intermittent problem of it not showing, but swapped in a new sensor, and that seemed to fix it. Also had a crap aftermarket alternator the PO put in, which may or may not have caused the problem. I would stay away from anything less than OE or OEM.

In my case, the PO already tried to fix it with a replacement oil sensor. Hopefully OEM, or else my problem might be compounded. Anyway, as I try to work out how to get ISTA+ going (thanks SWFLf10!) and on what device (Win XP apparently will not work), I think I might try disconnecting each component on the line to see if the screen will then at least try to (or be ready to) read oil level with ignition on (engine off). From my understanding, a faulty component on the line, if disconnected, will revive the connection for everything else on the line.

My alternator is what appears to be the original Denso unit.

I have tried checking oil level with engine hot, on level ground etc but no dice. Also the default, set alternator charging rate suggests a fault somewhere on the line.

I thought I heard the water pump making an intermittent 'chirrup' sound when looking in the engine bay with engine at hot idle, but haven't been able to replicate it. Also w/pump runs for a few minutes after shut down, but I understand this is normal operation.

I will eventually pull the trigger on a new w/pump and thermostat as maintenance replacements, but first want to find what is causing the problem.

[Ausf10]

Just a quick update: after someone here very kindly gave me access to the ISTA+ software, I bought a used laptop and new ethernet cable to run the diagnostic software. Getting the damn cable took the longest, only arrived today after 2 weeks.

Anyway I have some ways to go, but I have learned the following:

1. ISTA+ is the way to go for fault codes (or maybe a universal fault code reader, I don't know about that). The 'hidden' panel in the dash cluster does not show all codes, it seems - certainly didn't tell me about the code the car has had for a while. Although I also do have ISTA issues, such as the 'Error: Unknown terminal voltage" message coming up, but it seems you can continue to read fault codes etc after accepting the error warning (s). Also a warning came up saying that the ISTA programming system could not be initialised. I actually aborted the test the first time, tried again and inadvertantly waited a while and it got past all this and could read codes etc. I have some way to go getting my head around ISTA, let alone anything else...


2 Fault was: "CD9304 BSD data bus Communication fault" The ISTA 'service plan' for this (something I doubt any universal code reader will offer) is to individually disconnect the alternator, coolant pump (and maybe something else on the line? I didn't get a pic of that page) and if the fault disappears, then the issue rests with that component or the wiring to/from it. If that method does not pin down a component fault, then it is the DME. Apparently, it can be permanently damaged by faulty coils. So the recommended action is to replace all 6 coils and the DME. Ouch. This might be expensive... I will report back when I have the time to go though all this procedure properly. I do wonder though -- if a faulty coil damaged the DME, wouldn't it continue to cause problems until replaced? Maybe they have all been replaced already...

While waiting for the ISTA cable, I did disconnect the wire to the coolant pump to see if an oil level read would even be attempted with just ign on, but no change. This suggests it's not the problem, but I will test this again the ISTA way by disconnecting then running the programme to see if the code reappears.

I have investigated the 'worst case' scenario a bit. The DME (Continental MSV90) is about $2000 or so new from BMW, and has to be cloned. A used one is going to be hard to find in Australia, but presumably half that. Plus around $300 to clone it. There are US repair/clone suppliers, but I'm not sure if I'm game to send my ECU half way around the world at the moment, or Chinese copy ECUs (has anyone tried one of these?)

Just as a side note, I got a spare key made by a mobile guy who did a good job it seems, but left 51 codes in the system when he took out the module to match a keyfob! I cleared them and they haven't come back. Most, if not all, communication errors,

[Ausf10]

So I have disconnected each of the 3 components on the line, one at a time (oil level sensor, alternator, w/pump). Checked on ISTA for the code above, still existant. Cleared the code, waited 90sec, checked codes again... and yes, same code reappears. So it would appear to be a faulty DMS.

While fishing around looking for DMS info, found a us govt recall page (?) on this fault code. If I can find it again, I'll link it. Basically this problem is outlined and the explaination is that faulty Bosch coils can damage the DMS. The solution to to replace the Bosch coils with Delphi units and replace the DMS. The same advice is given in ISTA although it doesn't specify the Delphi coils. I checked my coils: I have 5 Bosch, one Delphi

Next step is to order 6 new Delphi coils, send my DME for a fault check and then repair or clone. Also need to get a seal for the oil sensor, as it is weeping oil from the PO's attempt to fix the problem with new sensor - but, I suspect, not a new sensor seal.

[Ausf10]

I feel as though I am talking to myself here, but at least if someone else has this problem, they might find this post helpful.

Short story: problem fixed with a cloned, used DME.

Longer story: I replaced the spark plugs with NGK, looked same as the BMW plugs I pulled. The plugs looked okay but were not fresh.



The coils I found in the car when I bought it were 1 new-ish Delphi and 5 older Bosch. I got a hold of the car's recent service history, the previous owner took it to a BMW dealer 3 times this year with an issue, which seems to have been a misfire and 1 coil was replaced. I suspect (given the ISTA recommended plan of action and US recall notice on this code) that this faulty coil caused a surge and damaged the DME.

EDIT: I should have mentioned the important bit, all 6 coils were replaced with new Delphi brand as per the plan of action for this issue.

I obtained a used DME out of a wreck. It was out of an older car, and while a MSV90, the p/n and number starting '5WK' were different to the original. It still cloned ok.

I got a bloke who made me a spare key to clone the DME, it took him a couple minutes. All I had to do was remove the original DME, he cloned it in his van and I put the good used, cloned one back in. I did not disconnect the battery, which was risky and next time I will. I got some weird powertrain codes come up, perhaps from the old car it came from (but that doesn't make sense, give it's cloned). In any case, I cleared the codes with ISTA and took the car for a drive and it seemed fine. Once oil had warmed up, the oil level was read okay. I accessed the hidden menu, and the alternator charge was fluctuating a lot more than before (when the DME was damaged, it sent the alternator into emergency charging mode, fixed at 13.8v).
So hopefully nothing more major with this car. It has only done 101,000km and in coming months I am planning a water pump/thermostat change, as well as trans oil and diff oil.

[F10F10]

Hi Ausf10,
Who in Australia did they cloning for you?