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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 General Forum    15,000 miles with my F90 M5 - positives and negatives

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      05-09-2019, 11:22 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by slaweksss View Post
According to the chip: friend of mine works at service, they are able to detect any interference. I guess that the car's electronic can measure electrical resistance or something. So simple diagnostic computer can not read this form the car but service computer gives them *immediate info about which parts you loose warranty*.
This is definitely a dealer by dealer case basis. I had a 2010 335xi that I leased, I tuned it and turned it back in with the tune on it. Not only did they not flag it, they CPO'd the car, and left the tune on. I knew the person that bought it and hit the DC button twice, and low and behold the RPM gauge starting moving

I also tuned my M3 and flat out told the dealer I tuned it, the guy said "Cool!!! Can I get a ride in it"
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      05-09-2019, 11:36 AM   #68
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I'm usually not a black wheel fan, but you sir may have the best looking M5 I've seen. This write up has me dangerously close to considering taking the plunge.
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      05-09-2019, 11:51 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
Quickburn7, thanks for taking the time to write a very practical review.

About IND oil cooler guard ... did you install it yourself or had another shop install for you? What was the installation cost?
Ben at RG sport installed it for me since the car should really be on a lift and my lifts are hard to do actual work on. You should also know what your doing which I don't. I highly recommend this mod and Ben to install it!
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      05-09-2019, 01:39 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Sorry, but this is not correct.

The ZF8HP75 is rated 750 max gasoline torque per the manufacturer spec. A stock M5 is about 550 torque so 20% more is not even close to max spec.

Aside from that, common sense will tell you that the cars are not designed to run at max stress. There is plenty of room to add extra horsepower and torque without destroying the drivetrain.

Much more important is how you actually drive the car. After all, BMW will tell you that even a stock car can be damaged by repeatedly using launch control.

Your basic premise is of course correct, which is that as you add power it will add additional wear to some extent. But I imagine if we pulled apart a stock drivetrain driven hard at 100,000 miles it would look worse than a race chipped car driven reasonably at the same mileage.
750nm and 550lbft is pretty much the same thing.
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      05-09-2019, 03:34 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Sorry, but this is not correct.

The ZF8HP75 is rated 750 max gasoline torque per the manufacturer spec. A stock M5 is about 550 torque so 20% more is not even close to max spec.

Aside from that, common sense will tell you that the cars are not designed to run at max stress. There is plenty of room to add extra horsepower and torque without destroying the drivetrain.

Much more important is how you actually drive the car. After all, BMW will tell you that even a stock car can be damaged by repeatedly using launch control.

Your basic premise is of course correct, which is that as you add power it will add additional wear to some extent. But I imagine if we pulled apart a stock drivetrain driven hard at 100,000 miles it would look worse than a race chipped car driven reasonably at the same mileage.
750nm and 550lbft is pretty much the same thing.
Good catch… I forgot that outside of the US most people use nm.

That said, no one seems to have lunched a transmission yet despite enormous increases in horsepower and torque.
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      05-10-2019, 12:15 AM   #72
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Ok, so what about braking, handling, etc...
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      05-10-2019, 04:44 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Sorry, but this is not correct.

The ZF8HP75 is rated 750 max gasoline torque per the manufacturer spec. A stock M5 is about 550 torque so 20% more is not even close to max spec.

Aside from that, common sense will tell you that the cars are not designed to run at max stress. There is plenty of room to add extra horsepower and torque without destroying the drivetrain.

Much more important is how you actually drive the car. After all, BMW will tell you that even a stock car can be damaged by repeatedly using launch control.

Your basic premise is of course correct, which is that as you add power it will add additional wear to some extent. But I imagine if we pulled apart a stock drivetrain driven hard at 100,000 miles it would look worse than a race chipped car driven reasonably at the same mileage.
No, I'am sorry.

The 75 is referring to 750Nm, not to lb-in. And it's referring to engine input, not to wheel torque output. This being said, the M5 is tuned to the max of the drive line from stock already. No slack at all, look at the competition which can't up the torque either for this reason while for a few hundred dollars you can chip to +900Nm. No room for discussion at all: beyond specification! PS, previous M5 was also on the verge of the specification of the transmission: 680Nm and full stop.

Of course, there is a design margin of ~15-20%, but it is not to be used for tuning, it's to be used for warranty risk by the manufacturer.
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      05-10-2019, 04:58 PM   #74
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To be honest… I don't understand why so many people seem to foolishly tune their car beyond engineering specifications and presume it's all ok!? Certainly, when you already drive a complete monster like the M5... which is already tuned to the edge.

Also, it's not the engine which bares the most risk, it's the transmission and the entire driveline. Everytime you push it in 1st and 2nd, you risk to snap one of the shafts! Of course the risk builds up and failure WILL become reality one day.

The BMWs which you could tune in stage 1 without too much risk are the 2.0 B48, but only the automatics, not the manuals. As long when you limit to 330lbft. Beyond that point, you're in the twilight zone.
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      05-10-2019, 05:07 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Good catch… I forgot that outside of the US most people use nm.

That said, no one seems to have lunched a transmission yet despite enormous increases in horsepower and torque.
Yes ZF is a German firm entirely in Europe, Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen, and they use Nm as metric.

Like you state yourself: when you don't use the extra torque, no problem, when you use it a lot... mechanical breakdown is inevitable and more scream is faster detoriation.

BMW should not be the paying for your risk beyond specification. Totally correct they black flag you, and not only for the engine that is!
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      05-10-2019, 05:45 PM   #76
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickburn7 View Post
I haven't found anything I like to replace the M5.
Lamborghini Urus SUV?
Panamera Turbo ?
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      05-10-2019, 06:52 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanesso View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeve19M5CP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickburn7 View Post
I haven't found anything I like to replace the M5.
Lamborghini Urus SUV?
Panamera Turbo ?
I've driven the Turbo and turbo S hybrid and although they are fast I am not a fan of the tech in them and they drive as large as they look unlike the M5.
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      05-12-2019, 09:37 AM   #78
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So is OP saying that the M5 is a better daily than the e63 from a suspension comfort standpoint?

Is the M5 comp suspension firmer than the non comp even when in comfort?
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      05-12-2019, 01:59 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMon View Post
So is OP saying that the M5 is a better daily than the e63 from a suspension comfort standpoint?

Is the M5 comp suspension firmer than the non comp even when in comfort?
Yes. All modes are firmer.
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      05-12-2019, 02:41 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMon View Post
So is OP saying that the M5 is a better daily than the e63 from a suspension comfort standpoint?

Is the M5 comp suspension firmer than the non comp even when in comfort?
Yes, that's what I'm saying it's actually much more compliant in the M5. A few of us on this board have had both and all agree that compared to the M5 the E63 felt like it was riding on bricks. I have the H&R springs like I said and it's still way better.
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      05-12-2019, 11:38 PM   #81
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There's no doubt the M5 is a fast car. It's an all around amazing car. However, the styling is a bit boring and outdated. There are many more cars out there that have similar looks, which dilutes the exclusivity of the 5. If I'm going to spend that much money on a car, I want it to stand out. It's a pricey as hell sleeper. For some, that may be what they want. Not me. I've been looking at a CPO Panamera Turbo (2017 or 2018). At 550hp, it's plenty fast. Not as fast as an M5, but fast enough, at least for me. I'm a big fan of the fit and finish of Porsche. You can feel the quality. The ride is amazing for a 4 door sedan. My dream has always been to own a Porsche. I've finally settled on either a 911 or Panamera. Just need to decide which one I can live with on a daily basis. I've owned BMW and Mercedes. Both very nice cars, but there's just something about Porsche that makes it a step above.
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      05-13-2019, 06:11 AM   #82
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The M5 looks better and drives better! Far more superior in my opinion!
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      05-13-2019, 07:15 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpt99 View Post
There's no doubt the M5 is a fast car. It's an all around amazing car. However, the styling is a bit boring and outdated. There are many more cars out there that have similar looks, which dilutes the exclusivity of the 5. If I'm going to spend that much money on a car, I want it to stand out. It's a pricey as hell sleeper. For some, that may be what they want. Not me. I've been looking at a CPO Panamera Turbo (2017 or 2018). At 550hp, it's plenty fast. Not as fast as an M5, but fast enough, at least for me. I'm a big fan of the fit and finish of Porsche. You can feel the quality. The ride is amazing for a 4 door sedan. My dream has always been to own a Porsche. I've finally settled on either a 911 or Panamera. Just need to decide which one I can live with on a daily basis. I've owned BMW and Mercedes. Both very nice cars, but there's just something about Porsche that makes it a step above.
I own a 2018 F90, a 2019 TTS and sold a 2017 Zo6. Based on the above, you need a Zo6.
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      05-13-2019, 07:33 AM   #84
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Bummer on the oil cooler. I had a rock hit the other side of my 335i where the aux coolant exchanger lives. I got a leak but had time to pit in and save the motor. They place the coolers fairly low and man they take a TON of abuse. I read you had springs so it's even a few more mm's lower I bet. Did the rock completely go through the heat exchanger? Mine just nicked a tube and caused a leak I guess a larger hole could put oil pressure in some serious trouble right away.
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      05-13-2019, 08:00 AM   #85
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The M5 looks better and drives better! Far more superior in my opinion!
Drives better? Have you driven a Panamera Turbo?
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      05-16-2019, 09:46 PM   #86
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Personally the only complain I have is the seats and seatbelts. After several months I still can't find a comfortable position and I keep changing every few days. And I am just 5.9" and about 170 pounds!!

It is also the only car I have had so far that the seatbelt always rubs my neck - it just seems to be at the wrong position.

Otherwise it is by far the best daily driver I am aware of. Thanks for the review OP!
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      05-16-2019, 09:58 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stav View Post
Personally the only complain I have is the seats and seatbelts. After several months I still can't find a comfortable position and I keep changing every few days. And I am just 5.9" and about 170 pounds!!

It is also the only car I have had so far that the seatbelt always rubs my neck - it just seems to be at the wrong position.

Otherwise it is by far the best daily driver I am aware of. Thanks for the review OP!
Took me a while to get seat position perfect ... coming from 2 F10 M5's it was difficult as those seats lowest position was lower than the F90.

6'3" here so no issues w/ seatbelt rubbing neck.
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CURRENT: 22' INDIVIDUAL M5| CHALK | TARTUFO | CCB | MPE | H&R | IND
GONE: 19' M5C| SINGAPORE GREY| ARAGON|VELOS VLS-06|H&R|iPE|IND|XPEL|CF|RADENSO
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      06-09-2019, 07:47 PM   #88
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OP, great post and totally agree with you. The m5 is the best DD , in my book as well. After 10+ years of mag cars, this F90 is a marvel, and a hoot to drive. Amwho?
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