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      08-18-2017, 04:29 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT View Post
Its a fact tho
Because you say so? That is opinion. Show us the the facts.
Subjectively, many people also view the interiors of various Mercedes and Audi models to be better than the comparable BMW model.
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      08-18-2017, 04:37 PM   #134
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Then tell me the reason why M5/6, X5/6M, everything in Mercedes and Audi(except R8) lineup, all have ugly floating sh1t...please
Don't know. Could be various reasons. Cost and intention, and ease of removal. M5/6 are large not really intended for track work, most people are just gonna drive from here to there, and floss. Same with the X5M/X6M. Same with the Mercedes and Audis listed. A lot of people, buy the M, AMG, RS model because it is the one that cost the most. There was a woman on here complaining about her Porsche Cayenne, and the wait time. She was a trophy wife, who didn't work. She now has a X5M. These are the people that often buy the models listed. They don't care about track times, 60-0 braking times, figure 8s. So why put fixed on the rears when there is no real reason to have them?
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      08-18-2017, 04:58 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by stvding View Post
Then tell me the reason why M5/6, X5/6M, everything in Mercedes and Audi(except R8) lineup, all have ugly floating sh1t...please
Don't know. Could be various reasons. Cost and intention, and ease of removal. M5/6 are large not really intended for track work, most people are just gonna drive from here to there, and floss. Same with the X5M/X6M. Same with the Mercedes and Audis listed. A lot of people, buy the M, AMG, RS model because it is the one that cost the most. There was a woman on here complaining about her Porsche Cayenne, and the wait time. She was a trophy wife, who didn't work. She now has a X5M. These are the people that often buy the models listed. They don't care about track times, 60-0 braking times, figure 8s. So why put fixed on the rears when there is no real reason to have them?
Many buyers are real enthusiasts too
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      08-18-2017, 10:03 PM   #136
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You are missing the point. There will be a point where the benefits requirements will converge. It will never be a the nostalgic stuff we will miss but it is a necessary reality for the greater good. The P1 and the 918 showed glimpses of bringing a touch of eco into hyper cars and the NSX shows there could be fun and speed potential. Non are perfect on one extreme or other but it is still early days and it is the future of things. Change is inevitable.

By way, barring E63 and the AMG GT no AMG beat their M counterparts and I am confident the F90 will address the E63.
Honda took 10 years to make a 2nd gen NSX that barely is equivalent to GTR, even with all its fancy hybrid engineering. Some things just need to stay classic.
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      08-19-2017, 12:19 AM   #137
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Indeed. The original McLaren 12C also revved to 8,500rpm. Turbo engines can have redlines as high as NA engines no problem.
Sad that's never gonna happen with ZF8HP that breaks down after 7500rpm.
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      08-19-2017, 01:17 AM   #138
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Meanwhile, others will be buying this thing BECAUSE it has awd.
I do think awd is good for the car, but I would definitely want an option for rwd only (not the switchable bs that could be affected easily with electronic problems) , proper dct for less weight and more extremity. BMW should stop bullshiting with torque limitatioj especially if the engine is Jahre M5 equivalent, which also has dct.
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      08-19-2017, 05:30 AM   #139
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Should make for an excellent addition to someone's yacht collection!!!

Good LORD that's huge!!!
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      08-19-2017, 11:11 AM   #140
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I think it is the cost. Right now, only supercars have dual fixed callipers setup....
Corvette has dual fixed calipers. Porsche 911. I believe the Camaro ZL1, 1LE, and Mustang GT350 have dual fixed calipers. And of course the M3/4, Giulia QV, ATS-V (and Lexus RC-F?) have them.
Then tell me the reason why 5,6,7,x1/3/4/5/6 including M versions, everything in Mercedes and Audi(except R8) lineup, all have ugly floating sh1t...please
Because the Electronic Parking Brake and Service Brake are combined. The Open Floating Caliper allows the pads to cool down faster after spirited driving.
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      08-19-2017, 11:18 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by stvding View Post
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Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
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Originally Posted by stvding View Post
I think it is the cost. Right now, only supercars have dual fixed callipers setup....
Corvette has dual fixed calipers. Porsche 911. I believe the Camaro ZL1, 1LE, and Mustang GT350 have dual fixed calipers. And of course the M3/4, Giulia QV, ATS-V (and Lexus RC-F?) have them.
Then tell me the reason why 5,6,7,x1/3/4/5/6 including M versions, everything in Mercedes and Audi(except R8) lineup, all have ugly floating sh1t...please
Because the Electronic Parking Brake and Service Brake are combined. The Open Floating Caliper allows the pads to cool down faster after spirited driving.
Oh pleases...stop the BS....aid cooling? More like aid wallet....if floating caliper cool down faster, why supercars all have dual fixed caliper? Just don't
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      08-19-2017, 11:49 AM   #142
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Oh pleases...stop the BS....aid cooling? More like aid wallet....if floating caliper cool down faster, why supercars all have dual fixed caliper? Just don't
They either have a separate Parking Brake Caliper, Drum Brake Assembly in the hub, or Ceramic Brakes with an EPB assembly bolted to the caliper.

There are several Brembo EPB Calipers (the green one was tested) but again, pad deposition on hot iron brakes was a persistent problem.

Stick to Wiretapping and being socially awkward.
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      08-19-2017, 12:38 PM   #143
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I like your ideas on what they could have done with the engine.

But I think you underestimate how game changing the chassis improvements can be.

If this car has 4 wheel steering and all wheel drive it will drive like an M3 with the power of an M5 and be able to get all that power down. That will be pretty amazing.
No doubt brother, the acceleration is going to be incredible in the F90 M5.
And the cornering ability - turn in, lateral grip, speed at apex, and exit speed will all be increased. To me that is the bigger deal than acceleration.
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      08-20-2017, 02:06 AM   #144
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I remember when we hoped (dreamed) all this cost cutting and platform sharing meant more money for M cars R&D. Boy was that wrong.
It's literally a lipsticked 550iS M Sport xDrive. That's exactly what this "M5" is.

AWD and a 8spd slushbox, FOH. Explain why EVERY other high performance vehicle still uses a DCT then? If the ZF8 is sooooo good, why has Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo/AMG not adopted it? Because it's not.

I for one can't wait for the bullshit laden press release, it'll be hilarious.
Audi is ditching DSG over the ZF8 in their RS models, RS6/7 and the new RS5 all use the ZF8

AMG doesn't use a double clutch trans in their C63 and E63 range but has for a few generations instead used their own 7-speed auto transmission with a wet clutch pack instead of the torque converter found in regular MB versions
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      08-20-2017, 02:10 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT View Post
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Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedR8 View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT View Post
So? I buy car a based on how it drives and not how many patients the company has. All mercedes models have the same exterior design, same interior design, same engine, same transmission. The only difference between them is sizing.

mercedes are heavy compared to BMW and audi and their transmissions are crap too. For example The new B9 RS5 weighs 1650 Kilos With AWD, Thats 200kg less than the C63s with RWD.

The Only good car mercedes is doing right now is the AMG GT because it was fully developed by AMG and its light and has a DCT thats the only thing that interests me from that brand.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but BMW isn't doing the same thing? My mother in law just picked up a 2017 540xi. I had the pleasure of driving a 2016 750xi last year for over a week and my god, it is IDENTICAL on the inside (my mother in law's 540 has the Nappa Leather upgrad seats and they are literally identical to the standard seats in the G11 7 series) AND outside... I'm a car nut and even I can't tell a G30 5 series from a G11 7 series half the time. They are literally identical, headlights and tails are so similar that its borderline questionable if they are even different in size. AND I am willing to bet that the new G20 3 series will be a smaller version of the two of the above vehicles.

So while I agree that the C class, E class and S class all look very similar to each other except they differ in size. BMW & Audi for that matter is doing the same dang thing and have been for years.
Mercedes is copy and paste. BMW and audi can be differentiated and have minimal similarities
BMW is literally copy paste through the entire lineup with the drivetrains and chassis, and now exterior design with the upcoming 3 series being a smaller version of the 5, which is smaller version of the 7. They're all the same shit with the exact same design cues. Hell, look at this "M5's" front end teaser shot, its straight off a M3/4 front bumper.

The whole formula is repeated in the entire model range they offer; same sausage different size. Period. They are absolutely no different from MB or Audi in this regard.
Mercedes and GTR fanboys are the worst. Im sorry but im stating facts that the M4/RS5 will shit on the Shit63 amg.
The new RS5 is actually quite good for this new generation. Luckily for us, Audi has confirmed that it will be designing an RS5 Sportback too. Can't wait to see that when it comes out. However I am also looking forward to the next gen BMW M440i Gran Coupe but that won't be out for another 4 years probably.
The new RS5 also ditches the DSG and replaces it with the ZF8...

BTW. The new 10-speed GM/Ford auto can shift faster than the PDK. Some of us had a technical discussion on the auto vs double clutch in a different thread here recently which was quite informative and interesting
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      08-20-2017, 02:21 AM   #146
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Missing the point, again.

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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Honda took 10 years to make a 2nd gen NSX that barely is equivalent to GTR, even with all its fancy hybrid engineering. Some things just need to stay classic.
The world is changing. The priority of speed and indulgence are over. If we are to have something to wish for now as performance enthusiasts, it is for manufacturers to find a way to bring the excitement of driving to the alternative power tech cars.

I for one, hope BMW do. All the other arguments about who did what and who did it first are details that mean little to me.
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      08-20-2017, 01:38 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindside_137 View Post
I remember when we hoped (dreamed) all this cost cutting and platform sharing meant more money for M cars R&D. Boy was that wrong.
It's literally a lipsticked 550iS M Sport xDrive. That's exactly what this "M5" is.

AWD and a 8spd slushbox, FOH. Explain why EVERY other high performance vehicle still uses a DCT then? If the ZF8 is sooooo good, why has Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo/AMG not adopted it? Because it's not.

I for one can't wait for the bullshit laden press release, it'll be hilarious.
Audi is ditching DSG over the ZF8 in their RS models, RS6/7 and the new RS5 all use the ZF8

AMG doesn't use a double clutch trans in their C63 and E63 range but has for a few generations instead used their own 7-speed auto transmission with a wet clutch pack instead of the torque converter found in regular MB versions
all the more reason to go your own way and be different. Audi, MB and bmw are busy copying each other that they have built the same cars.

waiting until I drive the ZF but fear "something" will be lacking that cannot be illustrated by shift times and specifications. like eating real beef burger vs a veggie burger.
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      08-20-2017, 08:09 PM   #148
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      08-21-2017, 12:06 AM   #149
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simply just an amazing daily weapon.
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      08-21-2017, 10:19 AM   #150
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Sad that's never gonna happen with ZF8HP that breaks down after 7500rpm.
All the more reason for ///M to have kept the DCT, as they can handle higher rpms. Like I said, reduce weight of the car and there will be no need for large amounts of torque.
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      08-21-2017, 10:25 AM   #151
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The ZF8 in the F90 will be noticeably different than the DCT in the F10, just like how people who have driven the X5M notice the difference when driving the F10 M5 also. People seem to agree that the ZF8 is not a bad transmission and shifts smoother at lower rpms, but why settle for mediocrity and ease of daily drive-ability when this is an ///M car we are talking about here. Daily driven Super Sedan or not, these kinds of cars are suppose to be a little unhinged and uncomfortable when driven around town.
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      08-21-2017, 11:22 AM   #152
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I'm wondering if the 'unveiling' is going to take place on the 'Need for Speed' Twitter feed?

https://twitter.com/NeedforSpeed
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