[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT

Mercedes is copy and paste. BMW and audi can be differentiated and have minimal similarities

BMW is literally copy paste through the entire lineup with the drivetrains and chassis, and now exterior design with the upcoming 3 series being a smaller version of the 5, which is smaller version of the 7. They're all the same shit with the exact same design cues. Hell, look at this "M5's" front end teaser shot, its straight off a M3/4 front bumper.

The whole formula is repeated in the entire model range they offer; same sausage different size. Period. They are absolutely no different from MB or Audi in this regard.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

BMW is literally copy paste through the entire lineup with the drivetrains and chassis, and now exterior design with the upcoming 3 series being a smaller version of the 5, which is smaller version of the 7. They're all the same shit with the exact same design cues. Hell, look at this "M5's" front end teaser shot, its straight off a M3/4 front bumper.

The whole formula is repeated in the entire model range they offer; same sausage different size. Period. They are absolutely no different from MB or Audi in this regard.

They even copied the F80 M3's side view mirror design.

[Hockey Guy]

Originally Posted by F83

Haters gonna hate. For me... sign me up. The money is down and I WILL be getting one.

I am very happy for anyone who sees the merit in this gen M5 and plunks down the $$ to get one. I truly hope it's a baller and that folks enjoy it. I'm also fine with AWD being added, but at what weight penalty we will see. My point is that next-gen M5s used to set a standard and be a leading edge product in the segment to include a bespoke, outrageous engine. It typically took 2-3 years for competitors to catch up. This gen M5 is going to be with us for six years and there appears to be nothing really different about it than the rest of the crowd. This keeps BMW in the game, nothing more. That's why I'm disappointed (definitely not a hater). I'm happy to be convinced otherwise

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT

Mercedes and GTR fanboys are the worst. Im sorry but im stating facts that the M4/RS5 will shit on the Shit63 amg.

The new RS5 is actually quite good for this new generation. Luckily for us, Audi has confirmed that it will be designing an RS5 Sportback too. Can't wait to see that when it comes out. However I am also looking forward to the next gen BMW M440i Gran Coupe but that won't be out for another 4 years probably.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by SlammedR8

I think you misunderstood the question, he is asking why isn't it a Gxx, G90 for example instead of F90. You are right, BMW separated the M models from the regular 3/4 series by calling them F90 vs F30. But in this case, BMW calls the regular 5 series a G30 but still wants to call the M5 a F90 while its built on a G body chassis now. Makes no sense.





You guys are wrong, at the end of the day the G or F pertains to the body/chassis. Not the engine being used. I do not believe they kept the F in the name because the engine is the same as the F10. I don't have the answer as to why they did it, I don't think anyone does except for maybe SCOTT26 but he hasn't been kind enough to share it with us until now. The F or G designation pertains to the body/chassis and this body/chassis is based on the G30 platform, so no fucking clue as to why they decided to call this a F90 instead of say G90 for example.

Its an updated engine found in the 30 Jahre in the region of 600PS...Not that far off from the 30 Jahre Edition. And remember that the 30 Jahre edition is no slouch.
It's Appropriate for the time being.
Because you must take into take into consideration the additional and inevitable Competition Packet And further Potential as will happen to the M3 before it exits next year. There is potential and it's not going all the way just yet.
The car is awesome as sitting in the passenger seat at a recent preview in which you could go on a ride-a-long under the cover of darkness. And where the First Edition car was shown along with the Marina Blue example.

[kyrix1st]

Doesn't Jahre M5 have M DCT tranny?

[N & M]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Eco friendly? I bet the next Gen M5 is a (PHEV) plugin.

If we are talking trend setting, future and want to see M continue to exist then we have to be prepared to accept or indeed embrace that combustion engine will go.

Maybe the noise will be gone but there is nothing that can convince me that we will not be able to have fun and go fast in cars powered by alternative drive soon. I love the i8 drive and respect cars like the Tesla. I wish they handled better and they will as the tech and reality of their relevance evolves.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by N & M

If we are talking trend setting, future and want to see M continue to exist then we have to be prepared to accept or indeed embrace that combustion engine will go.

Maybe the noise will be gone but there is nothing that can convince me that we will not be able to have fun and go fast in cars powered by alternative drive soon. I love the i8 drive and respect cars like the Tesla. I wish they handled better and they will as the tech and reality of their relevance evolves.

IF Tesla put some real tires on their cars you'd actually be able to drive them a lot better than you can they put roll resistant all season tires on their cars go figure.

I am looking forward to a BMW ///M brighter than the BMW i8 that has electric assist that compliments the turbo and provides torque fill to illuminate the flat spots or turbo-lag..

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by N & M

If we are talking trend setting, future and want to see M continue to exist then we have to be prepared to accept or indeed embrace that combustion engine will go.

Maybe the noise will be gone but there is nothing that can convince me that we will not be able to have fun and go fast in cars powered by alternative drive soon. I love the i8 drive and respect cars like the Tesla. I wish they handled better and they will as the tech and reality of their relevance evolves.

Fernando Alonso said this in press conference a year ago. He seems to reflect a lot of us car lovers opinions over the last decade's car industry evolution.

"My contract with Mclaren Honda ends next year (2017).. that's when I'll decide whether I'll continue to race in F1 or not. With this turbo engine (V6) I feel that F1 cars are now different to drive, I don't say it is better or worse, but I was lucky enough to drive cars from 2003, 2004, up until 2009..the cars were more extreme, more F1.... It's against racer's instincts to try to save fuel and tyres from the race start. And if these cars continue to give me the feeling I've had for the last couple of years, then maybe I'll stop racing in F1.... If you are just arriving in F1, the cars are fast and fun to drive, but for me who has driven all the cars, they are not enjoyable anymore. Not for me."

I feel like there should be a fine distinction between mainstream cars that should be eco friendly (520d) and for cars that are designed to go to race tracks (M), considering that sales figure on the latter is considerably less by nature, so they should focus more on character and extremity than this "practicality" that BMW now advertises. It's not a joke that AMGs are actually faster around race tracks nowadays.

[AlexLou1222]

I have lived with my X6 M for almost two years now, it has the identical motor as M5 and 8 speed tran, as well as AWD, i really don't think the ZF is bad for the combo, it's 95% quick to shift, and so much smother in slower speed. Looking forward for the F90 as I want it for my next so I can get back into a smaller sedan again.

[Kr0m3assass1n]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Fernando Alonso said this in press conference a year ago. He seems to reflect a lot of us car lovers opinions over the last decade's car industry evolution.

"My contract with Mclaren Honda ends next year (2017).. that's when I'll decide whether I'll continue to race in F1 or not. With this turbo engine (V6) I feel that F1 cars are now different to drive, I don't say it is better or worse, but I was lucky enough to drive cars from 2003, 2004, up until 2009..the cars were more extreme, more F1.... It's against racer's instincts to try to save fuel and tyres from the race start. And if these cars continue to give me the feeling I've had for the last couple of years, then maybe I'll stop racing in F1.... If you are just arriving in F1, the cars are fast and fun to drive, but for me who has driven all the cars, they are not enjoyable anymore. Not for me."

I feel like there should be a fine distinction between mainstream cars that should be eco friendly (520d) and for cars that are designed to go to race tracks (M), considering that sales figure on the latter is considerably less by nature, so they should focus more on character and extremity than this "practicality" that BMW now advertises. It's not a joke that AMGs are actually faster around race tracks nowadays.

Much respect for Alonso, always been one hell of a driver. Hurts me to see his latest McLaren debacle. Anyway, different topic.


This is partially down to BMW's fault. They made the M-packaged models so common and desirable and sold them at a price point that every "enthusiast" now wants a BMW affiliated with BMW M. Plus this fills BMWs pockets. Hell, nearly every BMW sold today has an M package option.

I'm also guilty of wanting that myself, and I'm the 99% that will never track either of my BMWs. And I'm the vast majority that desires a true M car, but will not care for what will make it a hardcore sports car. So yes, I'm also guilty as charged.

I mean, just look at the new 5 and 7 Mxxx models. They put down 3.x second 0-60 times and 11.x Quarters which only real super cars were capable of about a decade ago. And these models will be sold at about 2-3 years for 50% of their price. All this while they're massaging your a$$ and nearly driving down the road and parking by themselves. How many true enthusiasts care for the former or latter versus the real driving experience?

[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

I totally agree with you RPIM5... It's great that the next-gen M5 is finally upon us, but what a disappointment that BMW M could not do better than a slightly upgraded V8TT and an auto tranny!!! They added better traction management with a slick AWD system, whoopty-doo. This generation of M5 is with us for another 6 years?! It's a joke IMO. The BMW M2 showed that M-div still had a soul. This tells me that M-div is losing its budget and heart to X-div. I realize many of you may say "fine, don't buy one." That's the last thing BMW should want to read. I have owned the last two gen's of M5 and M3s and if you can't convince a guy like me to roll over to a new one, there's a problem in Dingolfing... Booooo

Guy like you? You just used BMW and "soul" in the same sentence..... sorry mate you are an enthusiast whether you want to admit it or not. We are the minority and they are not catering to us.

[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by AlexLou1222

I have lived with my X6 M for almost two years now, it has the identical motor as M5 and 8 speed tran, as well as AWD, i really don't think the ZF is bad for the combo, it's 95% quick to shift, and so much smother in slower speed. Looking forward for the F90 as I want it for my next so I can get back into a smaller sedan again.

Smaller sedan?

The F90 m5 is actually longer than the x6m

But it is shorter and narrower...true

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

The new RS5 is actually quite good for this new generation. Luckily for us, Audi has confirmed that it will be designing an RS5 Sportback too. Can't wait to see that when it comes out. However I am also looking forward to the next gen BMW M440i Gran Coupe but that won't be out for another 4 years probably.

Didn't they step down to a V6 TT?

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Its an updated engine found in the 30 Jahre in the region of 600PS...Not that far off from the 30 Jahre Edition. And remember that the 30 Jahre edition is no slouch.
It's Appropriate for the time being.
Because you must take into take into consideration the additional and inevitable Competition Packet And further Potential as will happen to the M3 before it exits next year. There is potential and it's not going all the way just yet.
The car is awesome as sitting in the passenger seat at a recent preview in which you could go on a ride-a-long under the cover of darkness. And where the First Edition car was shown along with the Marina Blue example.

Scott I agree that the 30 Jahre engine is no slouch, and I don't know when the last time was that you dropped $100k+ down a new M5, but for those of us who love this car and planned to buy each generation, there is just too little ROI to spend another $100k+ on a "next generation" M5 when it has the same engine characteristics as the previous generation. On the other side of the coin, people who tend to buy every iteration of the M5 are very few and far between, and most M5's are leased for a few years and then the owners usually move on to a Porsche 911. I understand its a business, but there has still got to be some ethical considerations in at least trying to retain the roots of the super sedan and offering something new and exciting in terms of engine development.

At this point all of this is moot, as what's done is already done, but it would be nice if BMW was transparent and would admit to the reasons why it chose to use another S63xx again and show financial data to reflect on how much money they are saving by not developing an all new engine. Or does BMW M seriously believe they no longer have the capacity or will to develop all new Motorsport gasoline-only engines for M cars?

I just can't justify spending another $120k on a new M5 with the same exact engine as what I have been driving for the past 5 years. Can't do it.

Surely you may have some inside information on why M is doing what they are doing these days.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

Didn't they step down to a V6 TT?

Yes sir they did. It's a pretty great engine too, from what I've read. Sounds 10x better than the S55 too! Lol!

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Scott I agree that the 30 Jahre engine is no slouch, and I don't know when the last time was that you dropped $100k+ down a new M5, but for those of us who love this car and planned to buy each generation, there is just too little ROI to spend another $100k+ on a "next generation" M5 when it has the same engine characteristics as the previous generation. On the other side of the coin, people who tend to buy every iteration of the M5 are very few and far between, and most M5's are leased for a few years and then the owners usually move on to a Porsche 911. I understand its a business, but there has still got to be some ethical considerations in at least trying to retain the roots of the super sedan and offering something new and exciting in terms of engine development.

At this point all of this is moot, as what's done is already done, but it would be nice if BMW was transparent and would admit to the reasons why it chose to use another S63xx again and show financial data to reflect on how much money they are saving by not developing an all new engine. Or does BMW M seriously believe they no longer have the capacity or will to develop all new Motorsport gasoline-only engines for M cars?

I just can't justify spending another $120k on a new M5 with the same exact engine as what I have been driving for the past 5 years. Can't do it.

Surely you may have some inside information on why M is doing what they are doing these days.

So you think what makes an M car is the engine?

I'd say that's true of older AMG cars, but it has never been true of M cars.

[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Its an updated engine found in the 30 Jahre in the region of 600PS...Not that far off from the 30 Jahre Edition. And remember that the 30 Jahre edition is no slouch.
It's Appropriate for the time being.
Because you must take into take into consideration the additional and inevitable Competition Packet And further Potential as will happen to the M3 before it exits next year. There is potential and it's not going all the way just yet.
The car is awesome as sitting in the passenger seat at a recent preview in which you could go on a ride-a-long under the cover of darkness. And where the First Edition car was shown along with the Marina Blue example.

I appreciate the update on the engine in the upcoming M5. However, you didn't really touch base on the whole F vs G code for these cars. Can you elaborate on that at all SCOTT26

Thanks in advance,

[Kh4N]

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by Kh4N

pushing the boundaries of the s63 engine and the zf8at slushbox

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Doctor///M

Limited edition first edition. Is ///M taking a page from the Mercedes book? Not to mention it doesn't make sense. Every car is a limited edition with that rhetoric.

On another note, needs some spacers.

Looks like they are with this 1st edition nonsense, then a CP then an LCI to cover off the "early cars issues" then some more edition models and a run out CP in frozen paint + a last of the line 650hp version. (lets not even go to the constant upgrading of the i-level that dealers won't flash for you)

On another note, needs some rear flares as well.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by SlammedR8

Sorry to bust your bubble, but BMW isn't doing the same thing? My mother in law just picked up a 2017 540xi. I had the pleasure of driving a 2016 750xi last year for over a week and my god, it is IDENTICAL on the inside (my mother in law's 540 has the Nappa Leather upgrad seats and they are literally identical to the standard seats in the G11 7 series) AND outside... I'm a car nut and even I can't tell a G30 5 series from a G11 7 series half the time. They are literally identical, headlights and tails are so similar that its borderline questionable if they are even different in size. AND I am willing to bet that the new G20 3 series will be a smaller version of the two of the above vehicles.

So while I agree that the C class, E class and S class all look very similar to each other except they differ in size. BMW & Audi for that matter is doing the same dang thing and have been for years.

And it's always been like that: