BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 vs...    C&D Comparo

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-15-2021, 10:33 PM   #1
ASG99
Private
ASG99's Avatar
46
Rep
64
Posts

Drives: 2021 M5C
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

The fastest of the 3, but a last place finish.
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2021, 02:14 AM   #2
Slugsy01
First Lieutenant
156
Rep
307
Posts

Drives: E63s AMG Estate
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Newcastle

iTrader: (0)

Interesting, I found the RS7 interior to be bland v M5, it's steering feel mediocre and chassis to be a bit sluggish. Good boot space admittedly and looks good but no way would I have had it over the M5. O
Appreciate 1
MistaM315.00
      10-16-2021, 02:19 AM   #3
Slugsy01
First Lieutenant
156
Rep
307
Posts

Drives: E63s AMG Estate
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Newcastle

iTrader: (0)

PS. In the UK, the RS7 is considerably more expensive than the M5. On a lease I was quoted £500 more a month!
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2021, 03:17 AM   #4
irablumberg
Lieutenant
United_States
239
Rep
403
Posts

Drives: 2021 M5 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

I look forward to reading the entire article. However, for now, I prefer the objectively superior car that absolutely dominated the performance tests.

Also, how in the world did C&D possibly get the M5C price up to $141K? I just went through the BMW configurator and loaded up the car with the Exec package, the Driving Assistance Pro package, CCBs, and upgraded leather. The total was $128K and that includes a number of things not available on the Caddy, so if we compare similarly equipped cars, the price gap gets even smaller. Price does appear to be one of the main factors that favored the Caddy, this is just wrong.

Looks like C&D also gave points to the Caddy for brake feel, but completely ignored actual braking performance.

Overall, I smell some serious bias.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2021, 05:19 AM   #5
ASG99
Private
ASG99's Avatar
46
Rep
64
Posts

Drives: 2021 M5C
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Here are photos of full review
Attached Images
      
Appreciate 1
stein_325i25051.00
      10-16-2021, 09:39 AM   #6
FatRear08
Major
FatRear08's Avatar
1426
Rep
1,195
Posts

Drives: F90 M5
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: HHI

iTrader: (0)

I saw the CT5 V Blackwing for the first time at the IMSA race this year at Watkins Glen. I was impressed by its looks, a pearl white with both carbon packages. I was thinking some nice forged wheels and slight drop would make it pretty outstanding. I’d like to drive one but honestly I love the grip of the F90 from down low. If the Caddy had a switchable system like ours, that would be a game changer.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2021, 11:28 AM   #7
N54MPower
First Lieutenant
United_States
282
Rep
385
Posts

Drives: Fast Cars
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Global

iTrader: (3)

It looks like this car also has Individual paint, all of the options you listed plus a few that are longer in the current configurator like the B&W audio option, which would explain the sticker price shown.



Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
I look forward to reading the entire article. However, for now, I prefer the objectively superior car that absolutely dominated the performance tests.

Also, how in the world did C&D possibly get the M5C price up to $141K? I just went through the BMW configurator and loaded up the car with the Exec package, the Driving Assistance Pro package, CCBs, and upgraded leather. The total was $128K and that includes a number of things not available on the Caddy, so if we compare similarly equipped cars, the price gap gets even smaller. Price does appear to be one of the main factors that favored the Caddy, this is just wrong.

Looks like C&D also gave points to the Caddy for brake feel, but completely ignored actual braking performance.

Overall, I smell some serious bias.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2021, 11:59 AM   #8
Namelss
Lieutenant
Namelss's Avatar
United_States
755
Rep
436
Posts

Drives: 2007 Volvo XC90 V8 Sport
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

I got on the waitlist for a Blackwing the day it was revealed (2/1). I got tired of waiting for an allocation by late June so I also placed an order for an M5C. I had a feeling this test would shake out like this once it was published but I thought it would be Audi/BMW/Caddy (3,2,1) though the 2-3 spots are only a point apart. That’s the problem with assigning numbered ratings for each category (see Doug score, another useless number).

The Caddy sounds more engaging to drive but the BMW is faster and more luxurious overall IMO. It all depends on what you’re looking for. I had a CTS V3 and yes, it was a blast to drive. However, it was at the dealer way too much in my 3 years of ownership and when it did go in for service, it was there for a week at a time. It also developed some interior rattles that a car in this range shouldn’t have. Build quality was definitely suspect. I’m on the Blackwing forum and the first 250 cars are being delivered with WAY too many issues.

Car for car, there’s just over a $20k spread between the two that I’ve configured. My Individual M5 interior was $5k and the top of the line seats with carbon fiber backs in the V were just over $6k. Both have CCBs. A six figure car should also include a premium, luxury ownership experience and I don’t get that at Cadillac.

My M5 is slated to go into production any day now (maybe). If I get that allocation for the Blackwing before the M gets stateside, I’m going to be faced with a very difficult decision. Today, I’m leaning towards the M5 and getting excited at the idea of actually owning one.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2021, 09:17 PM   #9
Greer
Colonel
Greer's Avatar
1883
Rep
2,498
Posts

Drives: 2022 M5 Competition
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

How did they get an M5 Comp to run 0-60 at 2.7 seconds?
__________________
2022 F90 M5 Competition & 2019 M2 Competition
2019 F90 M5 Competition
2017 F80 M3 Competition
2014 F10 M5 Competition
2003 E39 M5
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2021, 09:57 PM   #10
19M5
Private
United_States
40
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW M5
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Nevada

iTrader: (0)

Once you go all wheel drive you will not go back to just rear wheel drive.

That’s why to me, it’s the M5!

I had a heavily modded 2005 AMG wagon..great ride, but traction was an issue.

The modded Hellcat Charger…that thing was a tire eater and going WOT on highway speeds…depending on the road was at times scary.

Going forward, it will always be all wheel drive. I already know my next car is the hybrid M5
__________________
2019 BMW M5

2016 Dodge Charger HC
2005 E55 AMG Wagon
Appreciate 1
EPTXM571.50
      10-17-2021, 07:35 AM   #11
will0621
First Lieutenant
477
Rep
359
Posts

Drives: 21 M5c, 20 X3MC, 20 X5 40i
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: PA

iTrader: (5)

RS6/7s are slower than the G80 xdrive now.. that says a lot about the S58 but Audi performance has been lagging behind. They do look nice though. If I'm paying a huge premium for performance I'd want the class leader in that which is currently BMW for sedans (excluding Plaid).
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2021, 03:09 PM   #12
EPTXM5
Private First Class
United_States
72
Rep
183
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M5
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 16HC View Post
Once you go all wheel drive you will not go back to just rear wheel drive.

That's why to me, it's the M5!

I had a heavily modded 2005 AMG wagon..great ride, but traction was an issue.

The modded Hellcat Charger…that thing was a tire eater and going WOT on highway speeds…depending on the road was at times scary.

Going forward, it will always be all wheel drive. I already know my next car is the hybrid M5
I had a 16 HC charger also modded. Totally agree w the no traction at all. Love my f90 w it's switchable 4wd.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 07:29 AM   #13
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

Full Comparison Now Online to Read

Comparison Test: 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing vs. 2021 Audi RS7 vs. 2021 BMW M5 Competition
Name:  2021-audi-rs7-bmw-m5-competition-2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-comparison-101-1634660397.jpg
Views: 354
Size:  681.4 KB
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 08:42 AM   #14
ASG99
Private
ASG99's Avatar
46
Rep
64
Posts

Drives: 2021 M5C
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

These tests are pretty subjective of course. Do I wish the M5 had better steering feel, and had a little fender flair ala M3?, Yes. However when you take into account real life M5 pricing (not sky high

testers like this one) and lease numbers, the M5 is the clear winner. It is more than capable for the street of course and a comfortable docile cruiser when desired. Just the perfect blend.

Last edited by ASG99; 10-20-2021 at 10:33 AM..
Appreciate 1
Slugsy01155.50
      10-20-2021, 09:30 AM   #15
AmooManiak
Lieutenant Colonel
632
Rep
1,580
Posts

Drives: 21 X5 M50i -> M2C -> 21 M5C
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

No one buys an M5 to race it around a track all the time. It's a luxury car first that can turn into a super car killing street machine at any point.

People who want the track like characteristics would probably opt for an M3/M4 or a smaller car. I would actually hate if the M5 sacrificed luxury just to meet the needs of a few people who want it to be a track car first.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 12:34 PM   #16
Simon H
Major
Simon H's Avatar
875
Rep
1,319
Posts

Drives: M5 Competition
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
How did they get an M5 Comp to run 0-60 at 2.7 seconds?
That sounds bang on. It does say add 0.2 secs, for the 1ft roll out. Many quotes and videos doing 2.9 to 60 mph.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 05:49 PM   #17
e92hunter
Private
47
Rep
58
Posts

Drives: 21 M5
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

FWIW, C&D has a boner for the Alpha chassis cars (or GM in general). Even the previous ATS-V/CTS-V and Camaro SS garnered tons of praise from them. I would take their entire chassis segment with a grain of salt - especially since they gave it a perfect score. Also, the CT5-V BW got a lower trap speed with MORE power and LESS weight somehow?
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 07:27 PM   #18
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e92hunter View Post
FWIW, C&D has a boner for the Alpha chassis cars (or GM in general). Even the previous ATS-V/CTS-V and Camaro SS garnered tons of praise from them. I would take their entire chassis segment with a grain of salt - especially since they gave it a perfect score. Also, the CT5-V BW got a lower trap speed with MORE power and LESS weight somehow?
Maybe because its a good chassis…

GM has some of the best chassis engineers out there, it shouldn't be a surprise that the CT5 Blackwing or that its previous CTS-V generations have been receiving universal praise.
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 08:00 PM   #19
wesleyan92
Captain
wesleyan92's Avatar
1345
Rep
848
Posts

Drives: M8 GC || M5 Comp || X7 40i
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 BMW X740i  [0.00]
2021 BMW M5  [0.00]
You can only put out this kind of crap for a population that’s incapable of critical thought or analysis. Guessing BMW needs to spend more on advertising with Car and Driver or simply stop the M5 for a few years, because everyone is tired of the car winning everything and looking for nits to pick.

Bottom line, they chose a loaded up car and then skewered it on price. The real difference with the Caddy is 20k. The BMW rules the objective criteria and they nailed it on subjective.

The Audi was a soft car and they loved that. The Caddy was a harsh car and they loved that. Go figure.
__________________
2024 M8 GC Black/Black || 2021 M5 Carbon Black/Midrand beige || 2021 X7 40i Amertin metallic with Ivory white merino
2019 M5 F90 || 2018 X5 s35i || 2017 M5 F10 with Arkapovic Exhaust || 2016 535 || 2012 535 hated it after the E60 || 2010 535 E60 - my fav || 2008 528 E60 my first
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 08:31 PM   #20
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesleyan92 View Post
You can only put out this kind of crap for a population that's incapable of critical thought or analysis. Guessing BMW needs to spend more on advertising with Car and Driver or simply stop the M5 for a few years, because everyone is tired of the car winning everything and looking for nits to pick.

Bottom line, they chose a loaded up car and then skewered it on price. The real difference with the Caddy is 20k. The BMW rules the objective criteria and they nailed it on subjective.

The Audi was a soft car and they loved that. The Caddy was a harsh car and they loved that. Go figure.
BMW sends them the car, C/D doesn't get to pick and choose their spec unless its a Long-Term test model, they request a car, and the manufacturer chooses whether to send a car or not, and whichever one they have in their press fleet. As for the Cadi, being "harsh" it actually scored the best in the ride department, and has been praised for being very livable, mainly due to the fantastic Magneride dampers and much improved traction.
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 08:34 PM   #21
wesleyan92
Captain
wesleyan92's Avatar
1345
Rep
848
Posts

Drives: M8 GC || M5 Comp || X7 40i
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 BMW X740i  [0.00]
2021 BMW M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
BMW sends them the car, C/D doesn't get to pick and choose their spec unless its a Long-Term test model, they request a car, and the manufacturer chooses whether to send a car or not, and whichever one they have in their press fleet. As for the Cadi, being "harsh" it actually scored the best in the ride department, and has been praised for being very livable, mainly due to the fantastic Magneride dampers and much improved traction.
Good to know about the procedure on what car C&D gets. I didn't know that. Super stupid of BMW to do that. WTF.
__________________
2024 M8 GC Black/Black || 2021 M5 Carbon Black/Midrand beige || 2021 X7 40i Amertin metallic with Ivory white merino
2019 M5 F90 || 2018 X5 s35i || 2017 M5 F10 with Arkapovic Exhaust || 2016 535 || 2012 535 hated it after the E60 || 2010 535 E60 - my fav || 2008 528 E60 my first
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 08:44 PM   #22
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesleyan92 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
BMW sends them the car, C/D doesn't get to pick and choose their spec unless its a Long-Term test model, they request a car, and the manufacturer chooses whether to send a car or not, and whichever one they have in their press fleet. As for the Cadi, being "harsh" it actually scored the best in the ride department, and has been praised for being very livable, mainly due to the fantastic Magneride dampers and much improved traction.
Good to know about the procedure on what car C&D gets. I didn't know that. Super stupid of BMW to do that. WTF.
BMW has a habit of giving reviewers cars with Individual paint jobs to make them look more impressive but that also ends up adding an extra $5,500 to the sticker, and most press cars also have Carbon Ceramics which is at least another $8,000.

The last M8 Car and Driver got was $175k! I didn't even realize one could be spec'd that high!
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 1
wesleyan921344.50
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 PM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST