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      12-24-2020, 03:04 PM   #1
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Tunes: can BMW detect them including piggies

I'm not making any claims of certainty or citing specific instances of warranty denial as a result of a tune, rather I'm showing an example of the kind of data available to manufacturers these days—draw your own conclusions. Empirical, anecdotal, inference... they're all fair game for warranty denial. Here's an example of the latter (these are codes thrown by my M8):
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      12-24-2020, 03:21 PM   #2
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      12-24-2020, 03:33 PM   #3
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Agreed. I think.
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      12-24-2020, 03:56 PM   #4
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agree with what? Is this a report from BMW? Report says maximum acceleration exceeded. What is the maximum acceleration?
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      12-24-2020, 04:32 PM   #5
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Max acceleration=Blistering fast
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      12-24-2020, 04:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall View Post
agree with what? Is this a report from BMW? Report says maximum acceleration exceeded. What is the maximum acceleration?
Try again politely and I'll educate you.

Assuming you do, how would you like to quantify acceleration?
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      12-24-2020, 05:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
I'm not making any claims of certainty or citing specific instances of warrant denial as a result of a tune, rather I'm showing an example of the kind of data available to manufacturers these days—draw your own conclusions. Empirical, anecdotal, inference... they're all fair game for warranty denial. Here's an example of the latter (these are codes thrown by my M8):
What other faults occurred at the same log event?
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      12-24-2020, 06:09 PM   #8
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This is cool info Limey, I wonder about the inputs and logic of these codes? Could be internal accelerometer or wheel speed sensor logic or some other interesting combination of parameters.
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      12-24-2020, 06:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
I'm not making any claims of certainty or citing specific instances of warrant denial as a result of a tune, rather I'm showing an example of the kind of data available to manufacturers these days—draw your own conclusions. Empirical, anecdotal, inference... they're all fair game for warranty denial. Here's an example of the latter (these are codes thrown by my M8):
What other faults occurred at the same log event?
None.

Since I don't check fault codes daily, I reviewed the history and this same code was thrown 2 days earlier. Beyond that, I've never seen this before.

My car's SW revisions are unchanged (no OTA updates either).
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      12-24-2020, 06:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcparker2 View Post
This is cool info Limey, I wonder about the inputs and logic of these codes? Could be internal accelerometer or wheel speed sensor logic or some other interesting combination of parameters.
Agreed. I landed on accelerometer, too. Wheel rotation alone would be thrown off by wheel spin—imagine on ice. Depending on distance traveled, GPS would be a reasonable input... combine them, well.
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      12-24-2020, 06:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcparker2 View Post
This is cool info Limey, I wonder about the inputs and logic of these codes? Could be internal accelerometer or wheel speed sensor logic or some other interesting combination of parameters.
Agreed. I landed on accelerometer, too. Wheel rotation alone would be thrown off by wheel spin—imagine on ice. Depending on distance traveled, GPS would be a reasonable input... combine them, well.
Yeah, must be gps as well... very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
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      12-25-2020, 10:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
I'm not making any claims of certainty or citing specific instances of warranty denial as a result of a tune, rather I'm showing an example of the kind of data available to manufacturers these days—draw your own conclusions. Empirical, anecdotal, inference... they're all fair game for warranty denial. Here's an example of the latter (these are codes thrown by my M8):
Thanks Limey - Very interesting!
I can see how one can drive faster than then the posted speed limit, drive through a red light etc., but how can one exceed the acceleration limit? It’s not like we have the ability to ask for output exceeding 100%?
Isn’t the car & engine management that either lets you or doesn’t let you accelerate?
Is the user “exceeding the acceleration limit” when he asks for 100% throttle?
(Or is the example shown a result of coding & upgrades?
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      12-25-2020, 11:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_PNW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
I'm not making any claims of certainty or citing specific instances of warranty denial as a result of a tune, rather I'm showing an example of the kind of data available to manufacturers these days—draw your own conclusions. Empirical, anecdotal, inference... they're all fair game for warranty denial. Here's an example of the latter (these are codes thrown by my M8):
Thanks Limey - Very interesting!
I can see how one can drive faster than then the posted speed limit, drive through a red light etc., but how can one exceed the acceleration limit? It’s not like we have the ability to ask for output exceeding 100%?
Isn’t the car & engine management that either lets you or doesn’t let you accelerate?
Is the user “exceeding the acceleration limit” when he asks for 100% throttle?
(Or is the example shown a result of coding & upgrades?
Acceleration is the relative gain in speed over time. The car is apparently recording it. Given a stock model, it's reasonable to assume a manufacturer can determine the maximum rate of acceleration under those stock conditions. If we exceed it, well, they'll apparently know and do what they will with it.
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      12-25-2020, 11:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Acceleration is the relative gain in speed over time. The car is apparently recording it. Given a stock model, it's reasonable to assume a manufacturer can determine the maximum rate of acceleration under those stock conditions. If we exceed it, well, they'll apparently know and do what they will with it.
I’m glad they haven’t (yet) programmed the car to go into a limp mode and automatically report to BMW NA once the maximum acceleration is exceeded.
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      12-25-2020, 12:46 PM   #15
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interesting. P-Codes can normally be cleared. Wonder if this is the case with the above list.
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      12-25-2020, 02:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
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agree with what? Is this a report from BMW? Report says maximum acceleration exceeded. What is the maximum acceleration?
Means beyond the capabilities of a stock M8
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      12-25-2020, 02:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by M5 TT View Post
interesting. P-Codes can normally be cleared. Wonder if this is the case with the above list.
Everything is recorded these days... you can clear, but they'll stay in the log.
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      12-25-2020, 02:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5 TT View Post
interesting. P-Codes can normally be cleared. Wonder if this is the case with the above list.
I cleared them. Just requires diagnostic mode.

These aren't codes that a dealer saw, this is from my JB4.
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      12-25-2020, 03:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5 TT View Post
interesting. P-Codes can normally be cleared. Wonder if this is the case with the above list.
Everything is recorded these days... you can clear, but they'll stay in the log.
I'd assume so, too, but I've never had it confirmed. They didn't trigger a CEL anyway so kinda moot for the most part.
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      12-29-2020, 01:46 PM   #20
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      12-29-2020, 02:01 PM   #21
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They can't use those codes to deny warranty as they can't tell whether you're going down a big hill.
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      12-29-2020, 03:19 PM   #22
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They can't use those codes to deny warranty as they can't tell whether you're going down a big hill.
Yes they can.
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