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      12-28-2020, 09:08 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by mousefarmer View Post
and the weight of the vehicle goes down to be similar to gas cars
You'd be surprised but according to each manufacturer's website, the equivalent Model 3/Y to BMW's 3er/X3 are pretty similar in their curb weights.

330i RWD: 3560
Model 3 SR+: 3582
M340i AWD: 3979
Model 3 LR: 4065
M3 Comp AWD: ??? (Rumored 4,000+)
Model 3 Performance: 4065

X3 and Model Y also share similar weight figures, LR and Performance Y's are in between the weight of X3M40i and X3M.
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      12-28-2020, 09:38 AM   #68
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I wouldnt mind having a Model Y as an extra vehicle for my wife and I. But Im in no rush.
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      12-28-2020, 10:52 AM   #69
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Personally don't think pure battery power is the future (even solid state) I do think in the future a reliance on electric generated transmissions and hybrid (why or do hybrid batteries have the aging concerns ? )

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...-battery-fire/
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      12-28-2020, 11:03 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I never understand this, when I travel with my ICE I decide when and where I want to eat and the gas station is never considered. With a Tesla it seems like the opposite, you decide when you will stop based on range and available chargers and deal with eating with as far as you can walk. I live near a Supercharger, it is at Target, if you are coming down I-71 and decide to recharge there you can eat at Target or I-Hop or need to walk at least a half mile for other options. Not even close to the same experience as it would be in an ICE.
When it comes to Tesla everyone becomes a one car household who's hobby is driving cross country every weekend.

That being said if you live off grid in the middle of Montana.... an EV is probably not for you.
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      12-28-2020, 11:15 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
When it comes to Tesla everyone becomes a one car household who's hobby is driving cross country every weekend.

That being said if you live off grid in the middle of Montana.... an EV is probably not for you.
He said he did a long distance trip in a Tesla and it was similar to an ICE. As expected, ask any questions and some of the Tesla fans tell you questions aren't relevant, take the information given and realize it doesn't happen often. He's the one that made the statement, I only asked for how it was possible.

Traveling long distances in an electric car aren't as simple as an ICE, reality is you may or may not care, or it may not happen very often but it doesn't change the facts.

I see the people sitting in the Target parking lot refueling and think it looks awesome.

I would buy an electric as one of our 2 cars but do whatever possible to only charge at home and use the ICE for all long distance trips.
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      12-28-2020, 11:18 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
You'd be surprised but according to each manufacturer's website, the equivalent Model 3/Y to BMW's 3er/X3 are pretty similar in their curb weights.

330i RWD: 3560
Model 3 SR+: 3582
M340i AWD: 3979
Model 3 LR: 4065
M3 Comp AWD: ??? (Rumored 4,000+)
Model 3 Performance: 4065

X3 and Model Y also share similar weight figures, LR and Performance Y's are in between the weight of X3M40i and X3M.
yea, Stein, but those BMWs are coming with a full interior rather than a single Mac screen
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      12-28-2020, 11:22 AM   #73
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Yeah, range not an issue for me either. Most people get old enough and eventually they are in a relationship and in at least a two driver household with the girlfriend or boyfriend likely having a gas car...need to take a long trip use the gas car.
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      12-28-2020, 12:21 PM   #74
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When the CEO starts acting like a decent human being and quality issues are resolved, which don't sound like they will happen for a while.
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      12-28-2020, 12:42 PM   #75
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      12-28-2020, 01:12 PM   #76
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When the CEO starts acting like a decent human being and quality issues are resolved, which don't sound like they will happen for a while.
These are the top two reasons I won't buy another Tesla.
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      12-28-2020, 02:13 PM   #77
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      12-28-2020, 04:53 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
He said he did a long distance trip in a Tesla and it was similar to an ICE. As expected, ask any questions and some of the Tesla fans tell you questions aren't relevant, take the information given and realize it doesn't happen often. He's the one that made the statement, I only asked for how it was possible.
Yes, I did say that the 900 or so mile trip alleviated my concerns about road trips in a Tesla. How is it possible for my concerns on that specific topic to be alleviated you ask? Well I'm not sure how to answer that without sounding like an ass I guess. But here I go.....

I'll take my last road trip as an example. Recently flew to Florida in order to pick up my E93 335i and drive it back home. The trip was a little over 1k miles from Orlando area back to Indiana. We stopped about 4 times to refill the tank. We stopped twice to sit down and eat and another couple of times for restroom breaks. When I do the rough math I'd guess we spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5 hrs stopped, rough guess. With our average speed being somewhere in the neighborhood of "highly illegal" I'm guessing that the same trip in a Tesla would've required the same 4 times to "refuel". I believe the total time stopped in a Tesla would've been about the same 2.5 hours.....possibly 3hrs. In the grand scheme of things the additional 30 min overall means nothing to me, especially when combined with the fact it could've been FREE to charge.

When I do end up grabbing a Tesla there will be a wall charger in my garage. I don't think it would see a supercharger unless I'm road tripping, which is very rare these days. If I didn't have a garage it wouldn't make sense for me. If I rented and needed permission to install a wall charger it might not make sense for me. I own my home, have a 3 car garage with 2 bays that are 2 deep, and my garage is heated. No concerns about the cold draining my batteries....if that's even a "thing" at this point. In my case, when I do the math, a Tesla would've been cheaper then my 2016 Genesis AWD sedan was to own and operate...overall.

When it's Tesla time my E93 isn't going anywhere, it's paid for. My Lexus isn't going anywhere, it's paid for too. I enjoy both cars. Tesla's make sense.....for me. Tesla's are fun to pilot.....to me. Owning and operating a Tesla seems to be more economical at the end of the day....for me. I'm not trying to change minds here, only explaining how MY mind was changed. Some folks will never buy a Tesla, and that's cool. I thought the same.....until I drove one.
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      12-28-2020, 05:04 PM   #79
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Quote:
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luxury smell is not there
One of my biggest gripes personally
Quote:
Originally Posted by fgpalmer71 View Post
All of the build quality complaints seem to be slightly blown out of proportion in my estimation
As long as you don't really care that your 60-120k brand new car doesn't properly fit together then sure, it's 'blown out of proportion'.

One of my close friends got a 2021 model 3 this weekend, delivered the day after Christmas. Trunk doesn't align properly on one side, headliner doesn't fit properly on the same side, brand new seats came with creases in the covering which could almost be justified if they used real leather but they do not. He kinda shrugged it all off saying it's probably within spec (he's probably right--doesn't make it acceptable though, IMO).
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      12-28-2020, 07:29 PM   #80
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2.5 hours of stops from florida to indiana ? I did a straight shot from MO to NC and back in 1 day when i sold my GTR. On the trip there i just stopped for fuel. If i needed to pee i would pee at the gas station. I brought snacks with me so no need to stop and eat.

not saying one way is right or wrong. Just some of us are very inpatient and want to get things done asap. Even if its just a day trip to the nearest city (~300 miles round trip) i dont want to have to stop any longer than i have to on my drive home. I value time more than cost of gas.
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      12-28-2020, 08:30 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgpalmer71 View Post
Yes, I did say that the 900 or so mile trip alleviated my concerns about road trips in a Tesla. How is it possible for my concerns on that specific topic to be alleviated you ask? Well I'm not sure how to answer that without sounding like an ass I guess. But here I go.....

I'll take my last road trip as an example. Recently flew to Florida in order to pick up my E93 335i and drive it back home. The trip was a little over 1k miles from Orlando area back to Indiana. We stopped about 4 times to refill the tank. We stopped twice to sit down and eat and another couple of times for restroom breaks. When I do the rough math I'd guess we spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5 hrs stopped, rough guess. With our average speed being somewhere in the neighborhood of "highly illegal" I'm guessing that the same trip in a Tesla would've required the same 4 times to "refuel". I believe the total time stopped in a Tesla would've been about the same 2.5 hours.....possibly 3hrs. In the grand scheme of things the additional 30 min overall means nothing to me, especially when combined with the fact it could've been FREE to charge.

When I do end up grabbing a Tesla there will be a wall charger in my garage. I don't think it would see a supercharger unless I'm road tripping, which is very rare these days. If I didn't have a garage it wouldn't make sense for me. If I rented and needed permission to install a wall charger it might not make sense for me. I own my home, have a 3 car garage with 2 bays that are 2 deep, and my garage is heated. No concerns about the cold draining my batteries....if that's even a "thing" at this point. In my case, when I do the math, a Tesla would've been cheaper then my 2016 Genesis AWD sedan was to own and operate...overall.

When it's Tesla time my E93 isn't going anywhere, it's paid for. My Lexus isn't going anywhere, it's paid for too. I enjoy both cars. Tesla's make sense.....for me. Tesla's are fun to pilot.....to me. Owning and operating a Tesla seems to be more economical at the end of the day....for me. I'm not trying to change minds here, only explaining how MY mind was changed. Some folks will never buy a Tesla, and that's cool. I thought the same.....until I drove one.
I think the total amount of time for stops is only a small part of the issue.

I think reality -
"While we used to just get in the car and drive, eating when and where we wanted or not at all, I have planned this trip out for where and when we will stop to eat/recharge. We will stop at the next large city, we will eat lunch for 45 minutes and this lunch will happen at some place within walking distance of the charger. Being hungry or being close to something you want to eat is irrelevant. If you decide you want to eat an hour after we refuel or anywhere we need to drive to then the recharge will consist of us sitting in the staring into space. No point in grabbing fast food and hitting the road or skipping lunch. We need to leave on the trip at a time to put us close to this recharging/eating in 250 miles. No point in leaving at 6 A.M. unless you want to have lunch at 10 A.M. Unlike the gas station there is an excellent chance it won't be right at the exit (we don't count this as stopped time as we are still driving, even if not on route) and there is only one in the next city that is even close to our route. "

It looks like a good local car, horrible road trip car.
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      12-28-2020, 08:55 PM   #82
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By the time I get into an EV most of the regular automakers will offer superior EV's. Heck the Ford Mach E is a compelling alternative with a far superior interior and it's Ford's first kick at the can.
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      12-28-2020, 09:08 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
2.5 hours of stops from florida to indiana ? I did a straight shot from MO to NC and back in 1 day when i sold my GTR. On the trip there i just stopped for fuel. If i needed to pee i would pee at the gas station. I brought snacks with me so no need to stop and eat.

not saying one way is right or wrong. Just some of us are very inpatient and want to get things done asap. Even if its just a day trip to the nearest city (~300 miles round trip) i dont want to have to stop any longer than i have to on my drive home. I value time more than cost of gas.
I can agree with that, 2.5 hrs of stopping might seem excessive I guess. When I was younger we would make the trip to the beach house in Myrtle Beach or Cape Coral FL in damn near straight through fashion. We'd pee in bottles to avoid stopping. We'd pack food in coolers to limit our stops. I get what your saying for sure. This last trip was 2 guys in their mid 40's....things are different now. I'm in less of a hurry at this stage of my life for whatever reason. I don't eat fastfood anymore, I wasn't eating in the car I spent forever and a day finding....I'd rather sit down for a proper meal and relax. We made the trip in a little under 14 hours IIRC, WITH the 2.5 hours of total stopping time. When you do the math our average speed was ridiculous....which on it's face seems absurd after saying I'm in less of a hurry these days! Lol

But my best friend since 13 and I enjoyed the trip. Everyone's wants and needs are different. I wanted an E93....regardless of how many people told me it was a ridiculous purchase, a money pit, unreliable as hell, I bought one. I like it. I enjoy driving it. It makes me smile. Same applies to my future Tesla!
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      12-29-2020, 12:18 AM   #84
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It ultimately comes down to personal taste and it is pretty darn subjective. I am not a fan of Musk, but Tesla did pave the way for electrification - credit due. I am glad to see other manufacturers now going into this so that Tesla is not going to be the only game in tow. I was an early adopter of Tesla and after owning 6 Teslas since 2013, I would say that the Musk has a history of underdelivering yet over promising....especially when it comes to quality of cars and timing of production / delivery.

Like I said before, if you are planning to go into a Tesla, make sure to visit the various sites and see what the current issues are. No manufacturer is perfect, but from my subjective viewpoint, due diligence is needed when purchasing these cars.
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      12-29-2020, 08:24 AM   #85
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I won't buy an electric car until two market conditions are met: solid state batteries are mainstream to improve performance, range, and charging times; and a universal charging standard is set so I don't have to find a brand-specific charging location.
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      12-29-2020, 08:44 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
By the time I get into an EV most of the regular automakers will offer superior EV's. Heck the Ford Mach E is a compelling alternative with a far superior interior and it's Ford's first kick at the can.
The Mach E Griswold commercial I saw on Sunday was classic. If I went EV now, it'd be the Mach E just for because of Ford's clever marketing campaign.

But that giant TV screen just kills it for me.

Note to manufacturers... there are a lot of buyers over the age of 25 that buy cars and don't want a giant phone screen stuck on the dashboard. The Crazy Idea department called and suggested building an EV that looks like a normal car with a normal dashboard. Try it, it might work...
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      12-29-2020, 10:28 AM   #87
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1. Rapid chargers available at every 5 miles
2. Portable rapid chargers if you're off road
3. Ability to tow at least 8000 pounds and able to maintain over 300 miles range
4. Rapid chargers that can fully charge in 10 minutes for 400 miles range
5. Losing half of the current battery weight
6. 25% - 30% reduction in cost
7. Dealership within 20 miles
8. An ergonomic instrument panel that doesn't make you look to the right or get smudges on the screen.
9. Fit and finish worthy of $50K to $100K sticker price
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      12-29-2020, 10:55 AM   #88
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Absolutely zero interest in a Tesla or EV in general. I’ll ride it out as long as possible
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