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      04-24-2018, 09:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
I wouldn't buy any M car brand new. There value at one year is what they should be sold for imo.

They are all mass produced and poor quality wise. The M5 will rattle just like an M3 in time.

If pure speed is what you are after there are better money propositions.

If you can see $260 K value in a new M5 then your eye sight is better than mine. After upgrading the exhaust to make it sound better than a kia stinger add 15k.

Having driven one, the exterior is boring, the interior is dull, the car sounds shit and the drive is as boring as the exterior. Not only does the M5 not have the looks of an M car it doesn't even drive like one.
I am not sure where $260k comes from, I paid nothing like that for mine. I am told the competition pack will be circa $250k on road in Oz.

Leaving looks aside, I am surprised you didn't like how it drives. I would be interested in what you think drives well in this segment - i.e. a decent sized 4 door car (not a 3 series, c class or A4 etc)
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      04-24-2018, 10:56 PM   #24
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      04-24-2018, 11:21 PM   #25
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I'm really annoyed by the MB design language... I cannot tell which car is which unless I rush back to the trunk and check the badge :
I guess the light is slightly different? lol
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      04-25-2018, 04:45 AM   #26
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E63s looks much better than New M5:
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      04-25-2018, 07:33 AM   #27
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      04-25-2018, 04:04 PM   #28
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You can choose how your own money. Both are great cars. even if I think the MB is ugly I am still realistic.
I see a Bangle M5 from time-to-time and it evokes emotion. Everything after, looks uninspiring.
You must be in the crowd that gives bangle way more credit than he deserves. In my opinion e60 was ugly and the facelift/m division saved it. Ugly just like many other of his creations
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      04-26-2018, 06:17 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
I wouldn't buy any M car brand new. There value at one year is what they should be sold for imo.

They are all mass produced and poor quality wise. The M5 will rattle just like an M3 in time.

If pure speed is what you are after there are better money propositions.

If you can see $260 K value in a new M5 then your eye sight is better than mine. After upgrading the exhaust to make it sound better than a kia stinger add 15k.

Having driven one, the exterior is boring, the interior is dull, the car sounds shit and the drive is as boring as the exterior. Not only does the M5 not have the looks of an M car it doesn't even drive like one.
just curious... sounds like 260k is the pricepoint in Australia for you. If you had a 200-260k budget and needed 4 doors what would you buy?

Is anything out there up to your standards?
The whole concept of a super sedan is flawed. Nothing in this criteria fulfills any of my criteria in a car. How can it?

To me the M5 competition will be neither exciting (the requirement of sports car) or comfortable (the requirement of cruiser). There is nothing in the segment that I would spend my money on.

My approach is to buy a dedicated family mover such as an ML or X class focusing on comfort and practicality with a dedicated sports car that actually feels like one.
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      04-26-2018, 06:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madvillain View Post
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Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madvillain View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madvillain View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
The M5 sounds terrible. The E63 looks terrible.

E63 interior looks like a brothel. M5 interior looks bland.

Both are overpriced.

Conclusion - spend the money on something else
something slower that sounds worse and is less comfortable and cheap inside. like an m3. jkjk i actually like m3/4 sound (with right set up) and with ext leather is nice inside. both are very overpriced considering theyll be sold on used market for half the price in 2-3 years.
I wouldn't buy any M car brand new. There value at one year is what they should be sold for imo.

They are all mass produced and poor quality wise. The M5 will rattle just like an M3 in time.

If pure speed is what you are after there are better money propositions.

If you can see $260 K value in a new M5 then your eye sight is better than mine. After upgrading the exhaust to make it sound better than a kia stinger add 15k.

Having driven one, the exterior is boring, the interior is dull, the car sounds shit and the drive is as boring as the exterior. Not only does the M5 not have the looks of an M car it doesn't even drive like one.
havent driven the newest one but from what i hear everyone seems to love it (of course when conp pack comes out theyll say the original was shit etc etc). there was a test around a small circuit where it beat an m2 pre nicely. as far as build quality idk my f10 is sold as fuck at 137k km. i dont like the f90 not having fully ext leather. its expected on m3/4 but for $120k base(canadian) thats some cost cutting shit. making it sound good is alooott cheaper than 15k lol. like 200$ with resonator delete and leave valves in open postion.
You confuse sounding loud with sounding good.

Removing a resonator makes it sound "loud" not "good".

If the M3 is anything to go buy, I needed an MPE plus fabspeed x pipe to make it sound just better then embarrassing.

It's pretty sad that a 2.5 L Audi RS3 sounds better than a 260K M5.
that x pipe is a waste of money lol its literally a res delete for 6x the price. have seen/heard plenty of good sounding s63's. youre one negative ass mofo eh lol.
Just to educate you.

The fabspeed x pipe is the only solution if you don't want to cut the MPE.

Having tried to remove the secondary cats and add straight pipes, I can assure you the rasp is unbearable although very loud.

The X pipe is the best compromise with the MPE and improves sound and depth while minimising rasp.
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      04-26-2018, 06:23 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madvillain View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
The M5 sounds terrible. The E63 looks terrible.

E63 interior looks like a brothel. M5 interior looks bland.

Both are overpriced.

Conclusion - spend the money on something else
something slower that sounds worse and is less comfortable and cheap inside. like an m3. jkjk i actually like m3/4 sound (with right set up) and with ext leather is nice inside. both are very overpriced considering theyll be sold on used market for half the price in 2-3 years.
The M3 and M4 sounds diabolical. The right exhaust setup makes it sound average at best. No matter what configuration you use.

The exhaust will sound only as good as the sound that begins in the engine. And these engines sound shit.

BMW should be ashamed to release an M3 and M4 from its stable that sounds like the current F80. Its embarrassing.
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      04-26-2018, 06:59 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
The whole concept of a super sedan is flawed. Nothing in this criteria fulfills any of my criteria in a car. How can it?

To me the M5 competition will be neither exciting (the requirement of sports car) or comfortable (the requirement of cruiser). There is nothing in the segment that I would spend my money on.

My approach is to buy a dedicated family mover such as an ML or X class focusing on comfort and practicality with a dedicated sports car that actually feels like one.
"It doesn't drive like an M car" and the "super sedan is flawed" - you are aware that the super sedan kind of defines the M division

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...icture-special
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      04-26-2018, 07:31 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BG23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
The whole concept of a super sedan is flawed. Nothing in this criteria fulfills any of my criteria in a car. How can it?

To me the M5 competition will be neither exciting (the requirement of sports car) or comfortable (the requirement of cruiser). There is nothing in the segment that I would spend my money on.

My approach is to buy a dedicated family mover such as an ML or X class focusing on comfort and practicality with a dedicated sports car that actually feels like one.
"It doesn't drive like an M car" and the "super sedan is flawed" - you are aware that the super sedan kind of defines the M division

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...icture-special
This current M5 is as boring as bat shit.

And there in lies the tragedy.

There is nothing exciting about this car.
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      04-26-2018, 09:29 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
This current M5 is as boring as bat shit.

And there in lies the tragedy.

There is nothing exciting about this car.
I'd give it another go on the street. I've had mine for a month now and it gets it first service next week - so far it exceeds all my expectations and is considerably better than my F10. I have owned or driven everything in the range and this and the E63s are a step above all of them. With the M5 being the better daily for me.

I would agree the styling is somewhat conservative but the E63s is not aggressive either - RS6 probably takes the win here. I've done the more mundane thing for my daily and let me tell you these were boring.
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      04-26-2018, 11:06 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
I wouldn't buy any M car brand new. There value at one year is what they should be sold for imo.

They are all mass produced and poor quality wise. The M5 will rattle just like an M3 in time.

If pure speed is what you are after there are better money propositions.

If you can see $260 K value in a new M5 then your eye sight is better than mine. After upgrading the exhaust to make it sound better than a kia stinger add 15k.

Having driven one, the exterior is boring, the interior is dull, the car sounds shit and the drive is as boring as the exterior. Not only does the M5 not have the looks of an M car it doesn't even drive like one.
just curious... sounds like 260k is the pricepoint in Australia for you. If you had a 200-260k budget and needed 4 doors what would you buy?

Is anything out there up to your standards?
The whole concept of a super sedan is flawed. Nothing in this criteria fulfills any of my criteria in a car. How can it?

To me the M5 competition will be neither exciting (the requirement of sports car) or comfortable (the requirement of cruiser). There is nothing in the segment that I would spend my money on.

My approach is to buy a dedicated family mover such as an ML or X class focusing on comfort and practicality with a dedicated sports car that actually feels like one.
I agree with many things you say, but I fundamentally disagree with your logic on the super sedan topic. Maybe at the price point where you live, that makes more sense, but in North America, there's something to be said about cars that are spacious, practical, and comfortable, but can also be fun light to light, or run low 10s in the quarter. I don't think anyone has the expectation that they would handle better or be more engaging than a true sports car, nor the expectation of 100% comfort of a dedicated cruiser.

Also, agreed on the looks of the M5 inside and out, but I can guarantee that it would be fun to drive. E63s, M5, RS7, Panamera Turbo, etc are all an absolute blast.
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      04-27-2018, 01:10 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
I wouldn't buy any M car brand new. There value at one year is what they should be sold for imo.

They are all mass produced and poor quality wise. The M5 will rattle just like an M3 in time.

If pure speed is what you are after there are better money propositions.

If you can see $260 K value in a new M5 then your eye sight is better than mine. After upgrading the exhaust to make it sound better than a kia stinger add 15k.

Having driven one, the exterior is boring, the interior is dull, the car sounds shit and the drive is as boring as the exterior. Not only does the M5 not have the looks of an M car it doesn't even drive like one.
just curious... sounds like 260k is the pricepoint in Australia for you. If you had a 200-260k budget and needed 4 doors what would you buy?

Is anything out there up to your standards?
The whole concept of a super sedan is flawed. Nothing in this criteria fulfills any of my criteria in a car. How can it?

To me the M5 competition will be neither exciting (the requirement of sports car) or comfortable (the requirement of cruiser). There is nothing in the segment that I would spend my money on.

My approach is to buy a dedicated family mover such as an ML or X class focusing on comfort and practicality with a dedicated sports car that actually feels like one.
I agree with many things you say, but I fundamentally disagree with your logic on the super sedan topic. Maybe at the price point where you live, that makes more sense, but in North America, there's something to be said about cars that are spacious, practical, and comfortable, but can also be fun light to light, or run low 10s in the quarter. I don't think anyone has the expectation that they would handle better or be more engaging than a true sports car, nor the expectation of 100% comfort of a dedicated cruiser.

Also, agreed on the looks of the M5 inside and out, but I can guarantee that it would be fun to drive. E63s, M5, RS7, Panamera Turbo, etc are all an absolute blast.
I like the concept of super sedan. Practical cars like SUV even with a lot of power will never be fun to drive due to high center of gravity, big frontal area, and etc. meanwhile two door sports cars are not practical for me and I do not like to be seen in them.

So for me those super fast sedans are a good compromise. Especially nowadays they are almost as fast anything on the road and yet still seats four and not as flashy.
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      04-27-2018, 06:47 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
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Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
I wouldn't buy any M car brand new. There value at one year is what they should be sold for imo.

They are all mass produced and poor quality wise. The M5 will rattle just like an M3 in time.

If pure speed is what you are after there are better money propositions.

If you can see $260 K value in a new M5 then your eye sight is better than mine. After upgrading the exhaust to make it sound better than a kia stinger add 15k.

Having driven one, the exterior is boring, the interior is dull, the car sounds shit and the drive is as boring as the exterior. Not only does the M5 not have the looks of an M car it doesn't even drive like one.
just curious... sounds like 260k is the pricepoint in Australia for you. If you had a 200-260k budget and needed 4 doors what would you buy?

Is anything out there up to your standards?
The whole concept of a super sedan is flawed. Nothing in this criteria fulfills any of my criteria in a car. How can it?

To me the M5 competition will be neither exciting (the requirement of sports car) or comfortable (the requirement of cruiser). There is nothing in the segment that I would spend my money on.

My approach is to buy a dedicated family mover such as an ML or X class focusing on comfort and practicality with a dedicated sports car that actually feels like one.
I agree with many things you say, but I fundamentally disagree with your logic on the super sedan topic. Maybe at the price point where you live, that makes more sense, but in North America, there's something to be said about cars that are spacious, practical, and comfortable, but can also be fun light to light, or run low 10s in the quarter. I don't think anyone has the expectation that they would handle better or be more engaging than a true sports car, nor the expectation of 100% comfort of a dedicated cruiser.

Also, agreed on the looks of the M5 inside and out, but I can guarantee that it would be fun to drive. E63s, M5, RS7, Panamera Turbo, etc are all an absolute blast.
I like the concept of super sedan. Practical cars like SUV even with a lot of power will never be fun to drive due to high center of gravity, big frontal area, and etc. meanwhile two door sports cars are not practical for me and I do not like to be seen in them.

So for me those super fast sedans are a good compromise. Especially nowadays they are almost as fast anything on the road and yet still seats four and not as flashy.
This ^
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      05-01-2018, 04:35 PM   #38
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so let me summarize...ya'll are arguing over:

1. Which car "looks better".
2. why someone would want a large sports sedan

internet 101 at its finest.

The answers are always:
1. Who cares, it's subjective
2. Whatever fits that person's criteria for a car.
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